Baby seat or trailer?

Utter Consternation

I'm considering bringing our child to her creche on the bike when she turns one.

It's a 7.2km spin each way, from Firhouse to Kimmage in Dublin.

Firstly, which is safer, the trailers or the child seat on the back of the bike?

Secondly, am i mad to consider even doing this as i witness some fairly fcuking horrific driving everyday in Dublin on my commute??

seamus

Personally, I think trailers are really more suited to trail riding with kids, or otherwise non-commuting. I have seen plenty of people use them in the city, and I've never heard of an incident.
But nevertheless I don't trust anyone not to miss it and crash into it - including other cyclists.

Your main issues with the child seat are weather and safety. With the trailer at least if you come off the bike, the trailer won't tip over in 90% of incident. That said, one would expect that with the child attached in either case you wouldn't be commuting at full tilt, so the odds of a serious crash are much smaller.

I've always thought that if I ever did this, I'd go full cargo bike. Expensive, but comes with the best of both worlds. Plus gives you an alternative to driving to the shops to pick up a few bits.

What Username Guidelines

Utter Consternation wrote: »

I'm considering bringing our child to her creche on the bike when she turns one.

It's a 7.2km spin each way, from Firhouse to Kimmage in Dublin.

Firstly, which is safer, the trailers or the child seat on the back of the bike?

Secondly, am i mad to consider even doing this as i witness some fairly fcuking horrific driving everyday in Dublin on my commute??

Ah, so our similar 12km commute must be the exact same, as a fellow firhousian

I tend to agree with what Seamus says, but....

Firhouse to Kimmage can be done almost exclusively on decent segregated cycle tracks, except for maybe the last ~1km, and you wont be mobbed by other cyclists as much as you would be on the canal. I'd probably just tip along the very wide footpath on wainsfort road where the cycle track is on road. Trailer would be far more weather-friendly if you're relying on it all year, as well. Issue may be having the trailer on the rest of the commute, but not a huge one. It will also allow you to carry a bit of gear for yourself and kiddo, whereas using a seat would probably also require panniers as there isnt much room for a backpack.

Utter Consternation

seamus wrote: »

Personally, I think trailers are really more suited to trail riding with kids, or otherwise non-commuting. I have seen plenty of people use them in the city, and I've never heard of an incident.
But nevertheless I don't trust anyone not to miss it and crash into it - including other cyclists.

Your main issues with the child seat are weather and safety. With the trailer at least if you come off the bike, the trailer won't tip over in 90% of incident. That said, one would expect that with the child attached in either case you wouldn't be commuting at full tilt, so the odds of a serious crash are much smaller.

I've always thought that if I ever did this, I'd go full cargo bike. Expensive, but comes with the best of both worlds. Plus gives you an alternative to driving to the shops to pick up a few bits.

The bit in bold was my main concern, but the thing about it is that i won't be flying it. I'd be taking it handy enough with herself in the back.

I've seen a guy cycling around with a black cargo ebike. It looks like a beautiful machine. One can only but dream!!

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Ah, so our similar 12km commute must be the exact same, as a fellow firhousian

I tend to agree with what Seamus says, but....

Firhouse to Kimmage can be done almost exclusively on decent segregated cycle tracks, except for maybe the last ~1km, and you wont be mobbed by other cyclists as much as you would be on the canal. I'd probably just tip along the very wide footpath on wainsfort road where the cycle track is on road. Trailer would be far more weather-friendly if you're relying on it all year, as well. Issue may be having the trailer on the rest of the commute, but not a huge one. It will also allow you to carry a bit of gear for yourself and kiddo, whereas using a seat would probably also require panniers as there isnt much room for a backpack.

That's a good tip about Wainsfort Road.

I have a place in work where i can park the bike and the trailer securely, so it wouldn't be a massive issue.

I think taking it slow and being ultra observant would be the only ways to go, being over cautious can in itself lend itself to being unsafe too though, sometimes it's better to trust instinct than dilly dally!

Large bottle small glass

I've used a Weeride, which is a top tube mounted seat for last 18 months.

There are other makes available also which do the same thing.

The advantages are
*child has a better view of his/her surrounds and I would be very surprised if your child didn't enjoy it
*Your arms have a full wrap around child in event of a fall
*You can interact and talk to child
* child is pretty comfortable. With breaks I had my son for 30km off road in Killarney National Park earlier in month.

Disadvantages
*from behind you just look like a normal cyclist and will be treated as such (a flag might help here) In contrast when other road users see I have my son on board are for most of the time very very mannerly and accommodating.

For weather a rain proof one piece suit would probably suffice with appropriate layers

Mr. Grieves

Child seat for me, front mounted is good if your bike has a reasonably upright riding position. I was never comfortable with the trailer on Dublin's roads.

7km will take a bit longer than you're used to.

Hamax rain poncho is a great accessory for wet days, covers their feet and everything.

Hamax Rain Poncho https://g.co/kgs/bd7hGT

mr spuckler

Large bottle small glass wrote: »

I've used a Weeride, which is a top tube mounted seat for last 18 months.

There are other makes available also which do the same thing.

The advantages are
*child has a better view of his/her surrounds and I would be very surprised if your child didn't enjoy it
*Your arms have a full wrap around child in event of a fall
*You can interact and talk to child
* child is pretty comfortable. With breaks I had my son for 30km off road in Killarney National Park earlier in month.

I used a Weeride for over 2 years and found it excellent. Personally I much prefer the upfront seating position and my son had a great view too. This would also allow for panniers or backpack. As someone says above, a rear seat plus backpack isn't great, particularly over such a long journey.

I also have a trailer which I'm very happy with too but haven't really used in rush hour traffic so not in a great position to comment on that aspect. However as a general comment, towing a trailer over that kind of distance would be a bigger physical effort.

I dressed our fella in a splash suit / puddle suit and wellies when it was wet, with a fleece lined one for winter time. Then just a pair of gloves and a balaclava and you're sorted imo!

Chips Lovell

Have a trailer. Prefer it for the versatility. You can carry more than one child, most of them can be used as a buggy, and you can also use them for hauling other stuff.

But at the end of the day, I think it's down to what you're most comfortable with using on the road. From a safety perspective, the downside is they're behind you and you can't be looking over your shoulder all the time. But the upside is that everyone gives you a very wide berth.

Ferris

If you end up getting a trailer make sure that there is a recess behind the kids heads so that they can wear a helmet. If there isn't it'll push the helmet over their eyes and you'll be scuppered before you begin.

My kids both love the trailer. One liked the rear mounted bike seat and the other hated it.

boardbeer

Chips Lovell wrote: »

But the upside is that everyone gives you a very wide berth.

yeah, that was my experience, three kids over 12 year period. Danny McAskill is of a similar opinion, too: Danny Daycare

mr spuckler

Ferris wrote: »

If you end up getting a trailer make sure that there is a recess behind the kids heads so that they can wear a helmet. If there isn't it'll push the helmet over their eyes and you'll be scuppered before you begin.

My kids both love the trailer. One liked the rear mounted bike seat and the other hated it.

That's if they wear a helmet in the trailer! Most trailers will have a roll cage, once the child is strapped in securely there should be no need for a helmet imo.

boardbeer wrote: »

yeah, that was my experience, three kids over 12 year period. Danny McAskill is of a similar opinion, too: Danny Daycare

Yeah I think I've had one close pass in almost 4 years of fairly regular trailer usage.

Ferris

mr spuckler wrote: »

That's if they wear a helmet in the trailer! Most trailers will have a roll cage, once the child is strapped in securely there should be no need for a helmet imo.

Thats where i've ended up. Ideally I'd want them in a helmet but my trailers design prevents it.

Ray Palmer

I saw a kid in a trailer ahead of me once and had to say something to the rider. The child was fly around inside it. No idea if they were strapped in or not but they were certainly putting a strain on the fabric. Told the rider very politely thinking they would check the child. No, full on rage about how I should mind my own business.

Tried my dog in a trailer and it was petrified so vision of cycling down to the beach ended there. Same dog loves to be in a bag strapped to my front with his head out.

Trailers definitely bounce about a lot.

tomasrojo

I've used both a trailer (Chariot Cougar) and a cargo bike (bakfiets). The bakfiets is better overall, but, naturally, more expensive and there can be storage issues. I liked the Chariot a lot and it doubles as an excellent all-weather stroller (I walked quite a few thousand kilometres with it, as it was our main stroller), and I still use it as a goods trailer. I didn't get to use it that much to carry our first as a trailer, as everyone hated the idea of me using it on the road. Despite that, I did use it a bit as a child trailer, without incident. It has nice leaf suspension, so it's a reasonably steady ride.

I never brought the kids into town in the trailer (it was a one-kid trailer anyway), but I have carried cargo into town with it. Again, no serious problems, but you have to plan ahead so as not to get boxed in by traffic, and filtering is pretty much out. Filtering is harder on a cargo bike than on a normal bike, but still possible if you're careful (two-wheeler anyway; cargo trike I think would be a different story).

I still travel with the kids in the cargo bike nearly every day, so it's good value: get a good few years out of it, if your legs hold out.

what_traffic

Utter Consternation wrote: »

I'm considering bringing our child to her creche on the bike when she turns one.

It's a 7.2km spin each way, from Firhouse to Kimmage in Dublin.

I use a front mounted Child seat Bobike Mini since young fella turned 12 months
https://bobike.com/en/product/cat/frontseats/
Post from Large bottle small glass covers pretty much everything.

For all the Bobike FRONT Seat range they say the following for suitability
"
suitable for children from approximately 9 months till 3 years of age or a body weight of 15 kg
"

mr spuckler

what_traffic wrote: »

suitable for children from approximately 9 months till 3 years of age or a body weight of 15 kg
"

Good point to highlight - the same weight limit applies to the Weeride, though I had our fella on it until around 17kg.

doozerie

Chips Lovell wrote: »

Have a trailer. Prefer it for the versatility. You can carry more than one child, most of them can be used as a buggy, and you can also use them for hauling other stuff.

But at the end of the day, I think it's down to what you're most comfortable with using on the road. From a safety perspective, the downside is they're behind you and you can't be looking over your shoulder all the time. But the upside is that everyone gives you a very wide berth.

This sums it up very well.

We had a Chariot Cougar and it was great. Took it on holiday to North Yorkshire and towed it up (and up!) serious hills and it was perfectly rideable.

The weather protection was excellent, daughter was cosy and dry (and often fast asleep) as we were getting wet, and when awake she had the internal pockets filled with all sorts of "fun stuff" like snacks, CD player, books, etc. - I was jealous.

The Cougar has a roll cage, plus a multi-point harness, meaning she was safer than us. There is a video online somewhere of this trailer being crash tested by a driving a car into it, not exactly the kind of scenario you want to picture but the trailer fared very well, I think it stayed completely upright each time. Basically, it was very well designed.

Storage of a trailer can be an issue of course, but the same is true of a cargo bike.

All in all, if we were choosing again, a trailer would still be my first choice, though with competition from a cargo bike. One thing to note though is that our trailer required a flat surface/face on the rear dropout where the trailer hitch attaches, one of my bikes had a cowled area on the dropout so wouldn't have worked with the trailer at all.

tomasrojo

What doozerie said. If you're not using a Chariot everyday, storage is less of an issue, as you can collapse it and take the wheels off, and put it in a corner somewhere. But if you're using it a lot, I think it's a bit of hassle putting it back together all the time.

boardbeer

doozerie wrote: »

There is a video online somewhere of this trailer being crash tested by a driving a car into it, not exactly the kind of scenario you want to picture but the trailer fared very well, I think it stayed completely upright each time. Basically, it was very well designed

Yeah, I posted that here before, its from Allianz insurance testing: Crash Test
But you'd want to get a quality trailer, with TÜV approval or something, not a dodgy knock-off from Alibaba.

JMcL

mr spuckler wrote: »

That's if they wear a helmet in the trailer! Most trailers will have a roll cage, once the child is strapped in securely there should be no need for a helmet imo.

It would be an issue if you ever wanted to take the trailer on holidays to France though so worth consideration at the outset. They changed the law in the past couple of years so that all under 12s have to wear helmets including by my reading in trailers. €135 fine for the accompanying adult as well

Chips Lovell

It's never enforced. It's quite rare to see kids wearing helmets over there. We've been in France with a trailer a good few times now and it's never been an issue.

LeChienMefiant

Utter Consternation wrote: »

I have a place in work where i can park the bike and the trailer securely, so it wouldn't be a massive issue.

Our creche has a buggy store for during the day, a trailer is not much bigger than a buggy and can fold down quite small like a buggy.

That said I'd probably go for a seat. The trailer seems impractical and also less safe. The front mounted seats seem to be better for talking with little one on the ride. It can be hard to hear them, your little one is going to be interacting more and more now.

EDIT: I've a baby on board sign under the saddle on the cargo bike. Not sure how much heed people pay, but they seem to respect me more than other bikes.

stones81

Is there anywhere that hire out bikes with front Mount seats so can try them out before buying one

doozerie

The topic of safety comes up a lot when child trailers are mentioned. Safety concerns around kids are entirely understandable of course, but people seem to react more strongly to trailers than to more familiar options like a bike seat.

We've had quite a few people express concern, dismay even, about us putting our daughter in a trailer. It's quite natural that views differ, but our experience was that drivers recognised the trailer for what it was and gave trailer+bike a wide berth. On balance we found that we were treated with greater respect and concern by motorists while towing a trailer than at other times. I imagine the same drivers would react similarly if they noticed a child on a child seat, but one thing for sure with a trailer is that it's pretty much impossible to not see it, and people seemed to instantly recognise what it was carrying.

In the 4 years we used the trailer we can recall two dangerous overtakes (one here, one in the UK). I wouldn't like to count the number of dangerous overtakes in the same period when not towing the trailer. And to be honest, someone who overtakes a child trailer (or anyone/anything!) dangerously is going to be no more considerate to a cyclist with a child on the bike itself - there is no cure for being an arsehole - so I don't believe we'd have fared any better if we'd been using a child seat on the bike.

And the practical bit, the bit that no-one, me included, really wants to think of, is the risk of harm in the (unlikely) event of actually being hit by a car. We thought about that a lot before opting for the child trailer, and to us the trailer was the clear winner in terms of the level of protection it offered.

Anyway, every one of us will weigh up risk differently and we'll make different choices for many reasons. In the case of the various options for transporting kids by bike, don't dismiss any of them out of hand as they all have their pros as well as their cons in terms of safety as much as anything else. To some people the very idea of transporting a child by bike is horrifying, but many of us rationalise it and conclude it's perfectly reasonable (better than that actually, it's fantastic!), we just need to apply the same degree of rational thinking when choosing from the various ways of doing so.

ted1

I used a front one and found it great especially for being able to talk to the kid and put them on etc


It’s this one: https://bobike.com/en/product/detail/exclusive-mini

I may be willing to sell it. Even has a little handlebar for the kid to steer

mr spuckler

ted1 wrote: »

I used a front one and found it great especially for being able to talk to the kid and put them on etc


It’s this one: https://bobike.com/en/product/detail/exclusive-mini

I may be willing to sell it. Even has a little handlebar for the kid to steer

Yeah being able to chat to them as you go is brilliant.

Peterx

For me the trailer is better at always definitely keeping the children dry. I use a trailer to bring 2 kids to creche every day and it does give me peace of mind knowing they are warm and dry no matter what weather is bouncing off me and the outside of the trailer.
Picking up a bike seat cheaply gives you the option during the warmer months and for one child on a dry day the bike seat is much easier, the child is closer for conversation and he/she can warm their hands on your back.
Note : I can leave the trailer with them during the day without any folding faff which makes it easy

John_Rambo

I started using a trailer for my first a good few years ago, the amount of stink-eye and slow head shakes and on two occasions, vocal berating I used to get bringing the kids to creche in a bike trailer was unbelievable then.

All from people in cars though. Other cyclists were fine. Kids were strapped in and had helmets.

I mentioned it here on boards.ie and was told I should be locked up for child endangerment!!!

Seem to be the norm now. (to bring kids in a trailer)

Pros -
-They can bring teddies, toys, bags, snack with them.
-You can pack nappies and all the crap you need in the trailer.
-You can bring two kids.
-Stable and steady.
-Weather proof.
-Drivers tend to be careful when they see the trailer and flag.
-Don't really need to lock the bike when dropping off.

Cons -
-You can't really see the kids.
-You sometimes can't hear them if the cover is on.
-They ALWAYS fell asleep in the thing, think it's the type of motion.
-Storage.

@Ted1.. great photo, happy kid!

I remember reading one incident of a kid being hit by a car in the UK and it was a road rager motorist that drove at the trailer not realising there was a child in it.