We don't need interstellar travel

bogwalrus

An idea my friend and I were discussing.

We discussed how in the future humans might be able to create a sort of quantum radio that uses entanglement to communicate in real time with other intelligent life all over the universe.

Of course this will depend on other species designing something that could receive our signals etc but maybe there are obvious fundamentals that can be adhered to.

Back on point. If we can communicate in real time with other species then why not send them our genetic code and have them create a human on their end. We could even send educational material so that the individual could be raised as close to how a human could be on earth.

So, no need to actually travel across the universe but figure out a way to communicate in real time and send them our genetic code etc.

Bit cynical

bogwalrus wrote: »

An idea my friend and I were discussing.

We discussed how in the future humans might be able to create a sort of quantum radio that uses entanglement to communicate in real time with other intelligent life all over the universe.

I don't think current theories of entanglement allow for instantaneous communication across space.

bogwalrus

Bit cynical wrote: »

I don't think current theories of entanglement allow for instantaneous communication across space.

That is definitely true. I suppose the main point i was trying to make is that we have advanced our knowledge of what makes us human on a biological level that we could technically send what makes us human over the wire so that another species could build one of us. Instead of us having to visit these other species.

M5

We'll self evolve firstly into cyborgs and eventually once the technology is ready info fully electronic beings...if we don't destroy ourselves before developing said technology.

Entanglement comms a non runner unfortunately so we'd have to migrate to data/electronic beings and travel by radio waves or by some physical propulsion method. Spacetime is a bitch

bogwalrus

M5 wrote: »

We'll self evolve firstly into cyborgs and eventually once the technology is ready info fully electronic beings...if we don't destroy ourselves before developing said technology.

Entanglement comms a non runner unfortunately so we'd have to migrate to data/electronic beings and travel by radio waves or by some physical propulsion method. Spacetime is a bitch

Ok, but even if entanglement comms is a non runner why not just send our genome out using radio waves. Then maybe in the future a yet to be evolved species picks up signal and eventually makes a human.

Bit cynical

bogwalrus wrote: »

That is definitely true. I suppose the main point i was trying to make is that we have advanced our knowledge of what makes us human on a biological level that we could technically send what makes us human over the wire so that another species could build one of us. Instead of us having to visit these other species.

Ah ok. Yes I agree. If we discover other civilizations out there and we can communicate with them, we'll certainly send vast amounts of information to them once communications are established. It will probably be easier for them to construct versions of us (and vice versa) than physically travel there. Probably AI models first before biological models.

bogwalrus

Bit cynical wrote: »

Ah ok. Yes I agree. If we discover other civilizations out there and we can communicate with them, we'll certainly send vast amounts of information to them once communications are established. It will probably be easier for them to construct versions of us (and vice versa) than physically travel there. Probably AI models first before biological models.

I'll see if Christopher nolan is free to help with the film script. Lol

M5

bogwalrus wrote: »

Ok, but even if entanglement comms is a non runner why not just send our genome out using radio waves. Then maybe in the future a yet to be evolved species picks up signal and eventually makes a human.

In what direction?

Even if we assume that the radio wave could be sent with infinite power in all directions for say 100,000 years (all of which are pretty much impossible) the odds of that being received by a a capable species is constrained by time as well as space. We have no idea how long advanced civilisations last, but again for arguments sake lets say 100,000 years before they boil their own planet(a huge stretch based on our current sample density) The odds of that radio wave reaching them is infinitesimal!

They may be alive now, but dead when the signal arrives, or they may be at a earlier stage in evolution.

Sadly this element of spacetime pretty much means we probably wont ever make contact with intelligent life. There may be life out there, but when?

M5

markjbloggs

M5 wrote: »

How coherent are those radio waves at that distance?

M5

markjbloggs wrote: »

How coherent are those radio waves at that distance?

Inverse square rule applies I think?

In lay man's terms, you'd need very sensitive equipment

M5

There's also massive amounts of noise in space that effects radio waves. Furthermore over intergalactic scales space time itself will distort the radio wave

markjbloggs

So over sufficiently large distances, coherent signals from earth degenerate into "noise" ?

M5

markjbloggs wrote: »

So over sufficiently large distances, coherent signals from earth degenerate into "noise" ?

Depends on power I guess? Not my area of expertise!

Also expansion will redshift the signal

The premise seems flawed in many ways unfortunately

bogwalrus

There is always the possibility of new yet unknown forms of long distance communication (or signalling) being developed.

Here is a very short but interesting piece on quantum communication I just read. I sure the web is littered with plenty more. Maybe one day quantum communication will be the norm.

Fourier

First related to what was mentioned above, entanglement doesn't allow for instantaneous communication because it doesn't allow for communication at all since there is nothing transmitted, i.e. no energy or anything is sent from one particle to the other.

Secondly you can't really send them human genetic information to build a human because you can't do anything with the genome without the complex biochemical environment of an already living human cell. Easy for us with them already present, but not for the aliens. Like having a programming language source without the compiler if the compiler were a physical machine.

M5

bogwalrus wrote: »

There is always the possibility of new yet unknown forms of long distance communication (or signalling) being developed.

Here is a very short but interesting piece on quantum communication I just read. I sure the web is littered with plenty more. Maybe one day quantum communication will be the norm.

All new forms of communication are subject to limitations of spacetime, information being part of the fabric of spacetime...

Also the timing issue referred to still remains

Capt'n Midnight

markjbloggs wrote: »

How coherent are those radio waves at that distance?

Not very. And it's just noise since it all went digital.

High power AM radio is practically gone.

3Ghz radar or 50Hz mains power would be much stronger signals

M5

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Not very. And it's just noise since it all went digital.

High power AM radio is practically gone.

3Ghz radar or 50Hz mains power would be much stronger signals

Would path loss, Inverse square etc allow for intergalactic transmission realistically? I'm assuming the answer is no, based on little evidence though

Fathom

Interplanetary spaceflight first. Interstellar second.

Capt'n Midnight

Fathom wrote: »

Interplanetary spaceflight first. Interstellar second.

Unless you have a very compact energy source avoid gravity wells.

Learn to live on asteroids.

Then travel to the stars on them

Travelling slowly means the closest star now may not be the one you reach soonest.



Even at speeds we can achieve ET could have populated the entire galaxy long ago.

Capt'n Midnight

M5 wrote: »

Would path loss, Inverse square etc allow for intergalactic transmission realistically? I'm assuming the answer is no, based on little evidence though

Nope. We no longer use raw power to burn through the background noise. The days of Marconi using six foot long sparks to get across the Atlantic are gone.

If you want to setup a dedicated radio link in Ireland you have to apply to Comreg.
The power limit will be set to just over what you'd need to have a reliable link in bad weather.

Cellular phones and digital terrestrial TV and satellites all reuse frequencies in the next area over. The days of picking up South Africa on VHF Band I are gone forever

And a lot more data is being carried on fibre.