Faith and evolution

Bobtheman

I read recently where its scientifically believed that dinosaurs were around for over 150 million years. I think modern man has been around about 300,000 years
It's hard to believe that God was simply waiting around to create man ? Evolution itself makes it hard to believe in God given its randomness and the length of time man took to get here
We are willing to believe a group of Jewish men who lived 2000 years ago. The Muslims follow Muhammed etc. Based on what exactly?
Doesn't science and evolution make it hard to believe in God let alone Christ ?

homer911

Actually you should keep reading, there are many scientists who find science not only compatible with Christian Faith, but a logical conclusion of science

Bobtheman

homer911 wrote: »

Actually you should keep reading, there are many scientists who find science not only compatible with Christian Faith, but a logical conclusion of science

Yeah I ordered a book by an Anglican priest. But I still find it unbelievable that a God who took that long to create man then decides to send Jesus ? A bit of a leap.

uck51js9zml2yt

Recommend you read "in the minds of men, Darwin and the new world order" by Ian Taylor. A scientist whose a Christian and explores Darwinism.

It's free on pdf.nearly 600 pages.

There is also a guy called John C Lennox who has written extensively on this subject.

Peregrinus

Bobtheman wrote: »

Yeah I ordered a book by an Anglican priest. But I still find it unbelievable that a God who took that long to create man then decides to send Jesus ? A bit of a leap.

Perhaps God is less bothered by the passage of time than you are? If, as postulated, he is eternal and unchangeable, we would expect he to have a radically different take on the signficance of time, wouldn't we?

theological

Bobtheman wrote: »

I read recently where its scientifically believed that dinosaurs were around for over 150 million years. I think modern man has been around about 300,000 years
It's hard to believe that God was simply waiting around to create man ? Evolution itself makes it hard to believe in God given its randomness and the length of time man took to get here
We are willing to believe a group of Jewish men who lived 2000 years ago. The Muslims follow Muhammed etc. Based on what exactly?
Doesn't science and evolution make it hard to believe in God let alone Christ ?

I find it bizarre that people think they can demand things of God in order for them to be satisfied with Him. That isn't how it works.

As for time. Scripture tells us that to God a thousand years are like one day (1 Peter 3:8). His concept of time is different to ours.

I also don't share your assumption that the existence of biological evolution means there is no God. It is entirely possible that this is simply the process by which God brought life on earth.

I find the idea that a universe which is as vast and as complex as it is was created by nothing. I find the notion that the highly improbable combination of factors that led to life on earth being even possible happened by chance as being absurd. Much in the same way as living in an ordered universe with a uniformity of nature that allows us to make repeatable observations about so much in it could have come about by random chance. Or indeed that this universe doesn't have any discernable purpose.

I'll stick with Christianity thanks.

uck51js9zml2yt

theological wrote: »

I find it bizarre that people think they can demand things of God in order for them to be satisfied with Him. That isn't how it works.

As for time. Scripture tells us that to God a thousand years are like one day (1 Peter 3:8). His concept of time is different to ours.

I also don't share your assumption that the existence of biological evolution means there is no God. It is entirely possible that this is simply the process by which God brought life on earth.

I find the idea that a universe which is as vast and as complex as it is was created by nothing. I find the notion that the highly improbable combination of factors that led to life on earth being even possible happened by chance as being absurd. Much in the same way as living in an ordered universe with a uniformity of nature that allows us to make repeatable observations about so much in it could have come about by random chance. Or indeed that this universe doesn't have any discernable purpose.

I'll stick with Christianity thanks.

Indeed, it requires faith to believe in evolution just as it does in a creator... probably more .

ReReg Numpty

There are, as it turns out, a number of scientific problems with the theory of evolution.

They arise from some relatively recent discoveries in computational mathematics, the discovery of the DNA helix in the 60s, and the cambrian explosion.

The doubt in the theory arises because DNA is the ' code ' for all life, and what we know about code is described through mathematics. If you have a particular change in a species, it takes a certain amount of time for that change to make an adaptation...lets say ears becoming larger as a reaction to changes in an animals environment, or fur becoming denser.

The problem arises when it comes to making a new species. The building block of life is proteins and proteins are made from amino acids. In order for functional proteins to be made ( and in turn, a coherent species ), the right combination of amino acids must be selected. But there is no way that the correct combination can be selected through random chance. The odds have been calculated at 1 in 10 to the power of 77. This is particularly problematic in the cambrian explosion when there was an explosion of new species in a relatively short period of time ( 10 million years ). Computational maths say this should have taken trillions and trillions of years...

Mutations in one species cannot lead to the development of another species in anything remotely like a reasonable timeframe, because according to computational mathematics, the chances of errors are too high to make it a plausible.

For more on this interesting challenge to Darwin:

David Gelernter
David Berlinski
Stephen Meyer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noj4phMT9OE&t=1855s



.

smacl

May be of some interest to some here (or not) but there have been been two extensive mega-threads over on the A&A forum starting here and continuing here covering intelligent design versus Darwinism and evolution.

AlfaZen

Ariana Whining Bridle wrote: »

Indeed, it requires faith to believe in evolution just as it does in a creator... probably more .

Can you explain this - How is more faith required to believe in Evolution?
If anything science lays out evidence for evolution very clearly. This evidence is also under constant revision when new and better information becomes available.

Religion on the other hand has no real evidence other than ancient texts whos accuracy is up for debate.

kelly1

Bobtheman wrote: »

I read recently where its scientifically believed that dinosaurs were around for over 150 million years. I think modern man has been around about 300,000 years
It's hard to believe that God was simply waiting around to create man ? Evolution itself makes it hard to believe in God given its randomness and the length of time man took to get here
We are willing to believe a group of Jewish men who lived 2000 years ago. The Muslims follow Muhammed etc. Based on what exactly?
Doesn't science and evolution make it hard to believe in God let alone Christ ?

As others have pointed out, time is a non-issue for God. I see the long gap between the dinosaurs and the emergence of man as a period of divine providence in which fossil fuels were allowed to form. Without these, we wouldn't have modern civilization and nobody would be communicating on boards.ie.

There is no conflict between science and (Christian) religion, only a conflict between naturalism and supernaturalism. When it comes to discovering the true God, I think a process of elimination can be used. Various philosophers have argued that a monotheistic God is the only plausible or possible reality. We can then use this to eliminate hinduism etc, which leaves the Abrahamic religions. That's where theology steps in.

For instance you might compare the characteristics of Jesus and Mohammed to decide which of them sounds more holy or truthful, etc.

Sagats_knee

Science is merely a tool we use to measure, understand and record the universe around us.

There is no conflict with the belief that God created the universe and the fact that we can apply empirical methods to understand that universe.

I find it highly superstitious of people to believe that everything that is, including our individual objective conscience is the result of random atomic events over a very long time.

theological

AlfaZen wrote: »

Can you explain this - How is more faith required to believe in Evolution?

I don't dispute evolution personally but an ordered creation without a creator is an absurdity to me.

AlfaZen wrote: »

Religion on the other hand has no real evidence other than ancient texts whos accuracy is up for debate.

If I had a euro for every time this chestnut appears here I'd be rich.

Christianity is based on eyewitness evidence concerning the life, death and resurrection of Jesus in history. So I disagree with your assumption.

Turtwig

We've had a tonne of creation/evolution/intelligent design threads. This one is going nowhere. Posters are also reminded of forum charter, while questions are welcome, this isn't the place for Christians to be expected to defend their faith automatically.