Car insurance, tax & NCT discs

heffo500

Have there been any talk in recent years of moving away from displaying a paper certificate for Insurance, Tax and NCT like the UK have done?

delly

Absolutely no chance of this happening. Motor tax evasion in the UK trebled after they got rid of them. Add to that we have a very poor ANPR system in Ireland, so don't have the infrastructure to support it.

macplaxton

delly wrote: »

Motor tax evasion in the UK trebled after they got rid of them.

To add some context, it went up, from 0.6% of vehicles in traffic (2013) to 1.4% of vehicles in traffic (2015). That's nowhere near "treble".

If the 2015/16 loss of revenue figures are compared with the 2007/8 figures, they are the same at 1.3% of total revenue (although up from 0.6% in 2013/14).

There it would be reasonable to conclude that the evasion rate had "doubled".

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/vehicle-excise-duty-evasion-statistics-ved

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/659918/vehicle-excise-duty-evasion-statistics-2017.pdf

If you want a headline grabbing "trebled", then by all means pick a low year and a high one.

Don't believe everything on the BBC...

"Tax disc: Car tax evasion triples after paper version scrapped" https://www.bbc.com/news/business-42009111

"In the UK, motor tax evasion rose from 0.6% to 1.4% when the country moved away from paper tax discs." https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2017/0327/862927-1-billion-collected-in-motor-tax-in-2015/

coylemj

macplaxton wrote: »

To add some context, it went up, from 0.6% of vehicles in traffic (2013) to 1.4% of vehicles in traffic (2015). That's nowhere near "treble".

It's near enough for me. Though 'more than doubled' would have been more mathematically correct - the new rate was 2.33 times the old rate.

CoBo55

There wouldn't be a car taxed in the country, mine included:D

CiniO

a) motortax should be scrapped.
b) insurance should cover anyone to drive the car to avoid "driving by driver not named on policy" bullsh1t. Policy details in central database assigned to reg number - nothing on windscreen.
c) same with NCT - central database - nothing on screen.
d) there should be plenty of cameras spread across the country to verify every single car on the road for the purpose of valid insurance and nct.

That would reduce evasion rate to nearly 0.

Witcher

Sure while we're talking fantasies; cars should fly.

dsmythy

6 years ago we had 5% of cars without tax. Not sure what it is now but I'd imagine we'd outdo Britain on the increase in evasion. So no hope.

saabsaab

Yep, scrap car tax and transfer cost to excise on fuel.

delly

Jeez guys, double or trebled, this isn't a court of law, certain areas were lower, others were higher. I'm not going to read into published stats to be fair, but a headline will do as a general response to the query, but sure everyone likes to be able to point out a grave error by another user.

Isambard

saabsaab wrote: »

Yep, scrap car tax and transfer cost to excise on fuel.

and five years down the road a new government dreams up a new road tax....

pinktoe

CiniO wrote: »

a) motortax should be scrapped.
b) insurance should cover anyone to drive the car to avoid "driving by driver not named on policy" bullsh1t. Policy details in central database assigned to reg number - nothing on windscreen.
c) same with NCT - central database - nothing on screen.
d) there should be plenty of cameras spread across the country to verify every single car on the road for the purpose of valid insurance and nct.

That would reduce evasion rate to nearly 0.

How would you prevent numberplate cloning?

CoBo55

pinktoe wrote: »

How would you prevent numberplate cloning?

Don't bother, his post is so ridiculous there's no point.

saabsaab

Isambard wrote: »

and five years down the road a new government dreams up a new road tax....

No, they would be hammered also something needs to be done as the fossil fuel cars are phased out.

beauf

pinktoe wrote: »

How would you prevent numberplate cloning?

On a computerised system it wouldn't be hard to flag numbers that are suspicious. The same plate 10 miles apart in 2 mins is likely to be cloned. There are lots of ways to do it.

But it would require infrastructure. Which is unlikely to be put in place. It would be dearer than living with the current rate of evasion. Probably.

The QuietMan

I’ve never in me life paid car tax

Ubbquittious

Witcher wrote: »

Sure while we're talking fantasies; cars should fly.

They'd still want to tax them despite no longer wearing down the road

CiniO

pinktoe wrote: »

How would you prevent numberplate cloning?

For that there's a need for roadside checks.
Random roadside checks should include checking driver and if he's licenced, drunk, etc... And checking if number plate isn't cloned.

Del2005

CiniO wrote: »

For that there's a need for roadside checks.
Random roadside checks should include checking driver and if he's licenced, drunk, etc... And checking if number plate isn't cloned.

Who would do this? Our Gardaì are already under resourced and don't enforce the majority of our traffic laws. So they can't do it and they are the only ones able to stop vehicles for other state agencies to check them.

CoBo55

CiniO wrote: »

For that there's a need for roadside checks.
Random roadside checks should include checking driver and if he's licenced, drunk, etc... And checking if number plate isn't cloned.

How? ( Do you check a plates cloned)

CiniO

Del2005 wrote: »

Who would do this? Our Gardare already under resourced and don't enforce the majority of our traffic laws. So they can't do it and they are the only ones able to stop vehicles for other state agencies to check them.

Well if they can't do roadside checks, then it pretty much means currently anyone can drive anything in Ireland including untaxed, uninsured, unNCTed car, and unlicenced, drunk, drivers....

And yes - I agree - my experience of living in rural Ireland over 11 years confirms this - that's exactly the reality of traffic on Irish roads.


And guess what - windscreen disc or lack of them, makes absolutely no difference.

CiniO

CoBo55 wrote: »

How? ( Do you check a plates cloned)

During roadside check?
Compare vehicle VIN with VIN stored in vehicle database.
Takes one minute, but I can't see any other reasonable way to do it.

_Kaiser_

saabsaab wrote: »

No, they would be hammered also something needs to be done as the fossil fuel cars are phased out.

I for one am getting very tired of this climate alarmism nonsense to justify more taxes under the guise of saving us from armageddon :rolleyes:

As has been said in the other thread, all that would happen is a new tax/levy/charge would be brought in to replace motor tax but with the increased fuel costs remaining - it happened before, it would happen again.

In the meantime, your magic solution would hit the commuting public hardest. Taking Dublin as the primary example - No one enjoys sitting in traffic for an hour or so each way, each day just to get to work but because of the piss poor public transport options (especially outside Dublin), and the lack of affordable housing to buy or rent resulting in people traveling from a county or two away, most have no choice but to get on with it.

"Tax the fuel' is great for those who do feck all mileage (and so probably could use alternative options), or enthusiasts who want to run thirsty expensive barges or sports cars at the weekend, but those are outliers that shouldn't dictate policy for the majority.

Incidentally, don't think either that EV's will escape motor tax and "fuel" levies indefinitely. If/when they reach significant numbers you can be sure owners will be paying rates equivalent to what ICE rates are now.

Henry Ford III

CiniO wrote: »

During roadside check?
Compare vehicle VIN with VIN stored in vehicle database.
Takes one minute, but I can't see any other reasonable way to do it.

It'll never happen.

CiniO

Henry Ford III wrote: »

It'll never happen.

Then we'll always have cars with cloned number plates like we have now.

CoBo55

CiniO wrote: »

Then we'll always have cars with cloned number plates like we have now.

As he misses the point completely..

saabsaab

Climate alarmism nonsense? Global warming is accepted by most experts.


Old style car tax wouldn't re re-imposed again the party that tried would be wiped out.


An increase in fuel cost would promote more fuel efficient cars and promote other forms of transport. Those that commute would at least not pay car tax.

True EV's won't escape motor tax and "fuel" levies indefinitely. A tax would have to be paid on 'electric fuel', especially if it's from a non renewable sources.