What car? Tow bar + Dog guard + AWD recommendations.

mp3guy

Looking at replacing our existing "big car" and am looking at PHEVs or BEVs.

Currently I use a Yaris Hybrid as our "small car" to commute around 50km a day, it's very easy on petrol as you'd imagine and quite nimble.

Our old "big car" is a Mondeo Mk4 1.6 EcoBoost that also gets pretty great mileage, but we need a bigger car with; 1) A tow bar, 2) A large enough boot to put a dog guard in so the dog doesn't have to sit on the back seats and 3) AWD or 4WD as we live in quite a rural area and need the option in bad weather scenarios.

Looking at what's available today, is the Outlander PHEV my only option? From looking around the BEV Kona is only front wheel drive, so my only BEV option would be the Model X?

Any pointers / recommendations would be appreciated.

KCross

Budget?

H.E. Pennypacker

If you experience conditions bad enough to need more than just winter tyres, you’re going to need a decent ride height too and probably winter tyres on top of that as AWD doesn’t necessarily stop much better than 2WD.

Is there a workaround re AWD as it’s really going to limit your choices for the sake of a few days a year every few years.

Lantus

Tests have shown that good quality winter tyres will make a normal fwd outperform a awd by a significant margin.

Here's a nice bid on the difference

https://youtu.be/atayHQYqA3g

mp3guy

Stopping distance is one thing, but what about driving on muddy roads and / or pulling a trailer up a dusty track? I've driven front wheel drive in those conditions before and it wasn't great.

Is this just a use case not catered for in eco cars yet?

Lumen

There are a few AWD BEVs (M3 AWD, iPace, EQC, etron, Taycan, MS, MX) but the towing requirement rules out everything bar the Model X if the M3 is excluded on the basis of size.

deegs

I have the outlander phev for exactly your reasons. Put a tow bar on myself and use perfectly for my boat!

Lumen

Like a boaaaassssss...

:eek:

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/3870729/

kirving

Volvo V60 D6?

Ticks some boxes, very low VRT and NOx in particular.

Not sure how electric range would work with your commute, but should be doable on electric only all week, if you can charge in work.

kanuseeme

How about BMW 225xe Plug In Hybrid, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vHVq7iBvQA thats a review of it, he is not that impressed with it, he says the range is about 15 miles max in winter and on a good day in summer maybe 20 miles.

He also said its AWD with engine powering the front and motor powering the back.

He has a Springer Spaniel in the boot at 6.45, its big enough for his dog, don't know about yours.

Bigger car but less range than above is the BMW X5

mp3guy

Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

A Model X is out of the budget so it'll have to be PHEV at best. But then, I know I'll be burning petrol based on the planned usage anyway so am I any worse off looking at regular old hybrids like the new Rav4 AWD? Would I burn less on the Outlander, practically? Not just flat city driving.

DesperateDan

It sounds to me like you are about 2 or 3 years too early to the EV party. I would buy something like a hybrid Rav 4 to get me through the next couple years then upgrade when the options are really open.

mp3guy

DesperateDan wrote: »

It sounds to me like you are about 2 or 3 years too early to the EV party. I would buy something like a hybrid Rav 4 to get me through the next couple years then upgrade when the options are really open.

Yeah I'm thinking the same thing. I'll probably do that and then swap the Yaris for a BEV.

kanuseeme

mp3guy wrote: »

Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

A Model X is out of the budget so it'll have to be PHEV at best. But then, I know I'll be burning petrol based on the planned usage anyway so am I any worse off looking at regular old hybrids like the new Rav4 AWD? Would I burn less on the Outlander, practically? Not just flat city driving.

Hard to know, I quickly looked up the Rav4 and reviews give around 40-50 mpg, so thats what you will get with that.

On the other hand the outlander will give 30-40 km on electric and about 30-40 mpg in hybrid mode.

So if most of your driving is around 40 km and you have the ability to charge and return home you would be better off with the outlander.

You will have to apply this information to your commutes.

creedp

DesperateDan wrote: »

It sounds to me like you are about 2 or 3 years too early to the EV party. I would buy something like a hybrid Rav 4 to get me through the next couple years then upgrade when the options are really open.

I'm in same boat in that I would like to upgrade from a 7 seater diesel to a 7 seater BEV / PHEV but there is nothing affordable out there other than the Nissan EV van which I must admit doesn't fill me with enthusiasm! I think I will get a 4/5 year old diesel later in the year and see what happens over the next few years

kanuseeme

creedp wrote: »

I'm in same boat in that I would like to upgrade from a 7 seater diesel to a 7 seater BEV / PHEV but there is nothing affordable out there other than the Nissan EV van which I must admit doesn't fill me with enthusiasm! I think I will get a 4/5 year old diesel later in the year and see what happens over the next few years

This ? https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201912245585770?advertising-location=at_cars&make=LEVC&sort=price-asc&fuel-type=Hybrid%20%E2%80%93%20Petrol%2FElectric%20Plug-in&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&postcode=bs16qf&radius=1500&year-from=2016&maximum-mileage=80000&page=1

Its a rex, with chademo or css or both? 100 km range

creedp

kanuseeme wrote: »

This ? https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201912245585770?advertising-location=at_cars&make=LEVC&sort=price-asc&fuel-type=Hybrid%20%E2%80%93%20Petrol%2FElectric%20Plug-in&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&postcode=bs16qf&radius=1500&year-from=2016&maximum-mileage=80000&page=1

Its a rex, with chademo or css or both? 100 km range

£57k for that beauty and it only has 6 seats .. currently I regularly use the 7 seats so would want another 7 seater if possible. I could go for something like a 2L petrol smax / galaxy but the are brutal on fuel. I'm sure there are other 7 seater brands with petrol engines but fairly gutless performance and fuel consumption would be a problem particularly when loaded up.

kanuseeme

lol I know....the main benefit I see is that its got 6 seats in the back for the kids and some sound proofing between them and who is driving.

creedp

kanuseeme wrote: »

lol I know....the main benefit I see is that its got 6 seats in the back for the kids and some sound proofing between them and who is driving.

Hadn't factored that positive into my calculations Actually I didn't realise it had 6 rear seats so is an 8 seater in all. I could also insist that other half keep the kids company in the back leaving me to listen to whatever I wanted up front .. Mmmm

zg3409

What is your typical commute say weekdays to work etc. ?

The outlander can be quite heavy on fuel and has very low EV only range.

Would you consider going to 3 vehicle home?

1 Yaris for short commute
2 EV for daily long commute
3 classic tax 4x4 such as land rover etc for towing and beyond EV range trips?

As others gave said lugging a big car around if not needed daily may not be fuel or cost efficient.

Do you have room/interest/insurance for 3 car household.

My towing vehicle sits at home 6+days a week and mostly gets brought out just to prevent it seizing up.

kanuseeme

creedp wrote: »

Hadn't factored that positive into my calculations Actually I didn't realise it had 6 rear seats so is an 8 seater in all. I could also insist that other half keep the kids company in the back leaving me to listen to whatever I wanted up front .. Mmmm

No only 7, no passenger seat in the front,

mp3guy

zg3409 wrote: »

What is your typical commute say weekdays to work etc. ?

The outlander can be quite heavy on fuel and has very low EV only range.

Would you consider going to 3 vehicle home?

1 Yaris for short commute
2 EV for daily long commute
3 classic tax 4x4 such as land rover etc for towing and beyond EV range trips?

As others gave said lugging a big car around if not needed daily may not be fuel or cost efficient.

Do you have room/interest/insurance for 3 car household.

My towing vehicle sits at home 6+days a week and mostly gets brought out just to prevent it seizing up.

Not sure 3 would be worth it.

Yaris commute is 25km each way 5 days a week (I'd consider this short).

Big car would do probably two 80-90km round trips a week plus daily 5-10km trips and then one or two trips on the weekend because of its size.

Swapping the Yaris for a BEV and then going with a Rav4 HEV w/ AWD seems like the optimal way to go at the moment.

mp3guy

Alright after a few test drives and a bunch of internet research I've settled on this;

1) Trade in Yaris Hybrid for RAV4 Hybrid AWD.
2) Trade in Mondeo for Kona Electric.

I was thinking about the Leaf but rapidgate is just something I don't want to have to think about.

Soarer

You don’t have to think about it.

Chances are you’d never experience it.

mp3guy

Soarer wrote: »

You don’t have to think about it.

Chances are you’d never experience it.

I think it's safe to say it's an unintended behaviour of the vehicle on behalf of the manufacturer. The fact an update was released to patch it admits this. I can't invest money in an asset I know has a fundamental unintended flaw like that in it, even if it's mitigated and / or rare. Why not just buy a different car that doesn't have that? Sure any car could have a lurking problem like that, but I can at least avoid the ones I know of. Maybe the Kona will develop something worse, maybe rapidgate cars will end up in an even worse state in 2 years time, who knows.

KCross

mp3guy wrote: »

Maybe the Kona will develop something worse...

It suffers from coldgate which is more likely to happen in this country than rapidgate.

Realistically neither will make any difference to you unless you are doing alot of long distance driving.

mp3guy

KCross wrote: »

It suffers from coldgate which is more likely to happen in this country than rapidgate.

Realistically neither will make any difference to you unless you are doing alot of long distance driving.

A cold battery sits better with me than a hot one.

But yes, both are extreme scenarios most users won't hit.