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What's the notice period here?

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  • 09-01-2020 3:43pm
    #1
    Panic Stations
    Registered Users Posts: 251 ✭✭


    Me and my girlfriend are moving in together and she has been renting in Dublin for the last 4 years.

    She's been renting in the same place for 4 years without signing any lease. She gave her landlord notice this morning and they're coming back saying that she needs to give 4 months notices and is liable to pay up to 4 months if she leaves. The house is also shared with 2 other girls who also haven't signed a lease.

    I was just wondering what are her rights here. Surely the fact that she's not signed into a lease means that she's not entitled to give that amount of notice.
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    #2
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,930 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    I doubt this would be your attitude if the landlord was telling her she has to be out ASAP.

    You get part 4 rights after 6 months so a lease is a waste of time for a landlord. Part 4 means that the landlord can't kick you out without the appropriate notice, which is on the RTB site, but it also requires the tenant to give similar notice. The landlord can charge her the rent and charge for advertising the property, in this environment it should be rented fairly quickly. You can reassign a lease and the landlord is basically fecked because you can walk away if they refuse the new tenant.


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    #3
    JustMe,K
    Registered Users Posts: 610 ✭✭✭JustMe,K


    Does her landlord live in the house?


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    #4
    Panic Stations
    Registered Users Posts: 251 ✭✭Panic Stations


    Landlord doesn't live in the house.

    Basically all 3 girls that live in the house haven't signed a lease. Over the last 4 years multiple girls have lived there and when one leaves they get another girl in between them.

    Landlord never had any involvement in getting new tenants in.

    That's her plan now. She has people coming to look at her room to rent and the landlord is now kicking up a fuss saying how they want to approve them first yet they never cared before this?


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    #5
    Panic Stations
    Registered Users Posts: 251 ✭✭Panic Stations


    Del2005 wrote: »
    I doubt this would be your attitude if the landlord was telling her she has to be out ASAP.

    You get part 4 rights after 6 months so a lease is a waste of time for a landlord. Part 4 means that the landlord can't kick you out without the appropriate notice, which is on the RTB site, but it also requires the tenant to give similar notice. The landlord can charge her the rent and charge for advertising the property, in this environment it should be rented fairly quickly. You can reassign a lease and the landlord is basically fecked because you can walk away if they refuse the new tenant.

    She's not just walking away without getting someone in to cover her share of the rent. The girls in the house take care of all the interviewing of tenants.


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    #6
    Salary Negotiator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭Salary Negotiator


    Panic Stations wrote: »
    She's not just walking away without getting someone in to cover her share of the rent. The girls in the house take care of all the interviewing of tenants.

    Does the landlord know that it is only her moving out and not the 2 others?


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    #7
    Panic Stations
    Registered Users Posts: 251 ✭✭Panic Stations


    Yeah, she made it clear to them that it's just her.

    They've always made payment and the landlord isn't going to be out of pocket with her moving out.


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    #8
    JustMe,K
    Registered Users Posts: 610 ✭✭✭JustMe,K


    The landlord is perfectly entitled to know who is living in the house, sure it becomes their problem if the other 2 girls have issues with the new person....might not have been an issue in the past but with so many changes in legislation I wouldn't blame them for wanting some involvement.
    How much notice was your gf giving?

    TBH I would say there is more to this, possibly more than yourself or your gf even know, but if she wants to move out earlier than she is entitled to then she needs to have a chat with the LL and agree how to approve whoever takes her room and find a solution that works for everyone.


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    #9
    Panic Stations
    Registered Users Posts: 251 ✭✭Panic Stations


    JustMe,K wrote: »
    The landlord is perfectly entitled to know who is living in the house, sure it becomes their problem if the other 2 girls have issues with the new person....might not have been an issue in the past but with so many changes in legislation I wouldn't blame them for wanting some involvement.
    How much notice was your gf giving?

    TBH I would say there is more to this, possibly more than yourself or your gf even know, but if she wants to move out earlier than she is entitled to then she needs to have a chat with the LL and agree how to approve whoever takes her room and find a solution that works for everyone.

    There's genuinely no underlining issues (not on her side anyway). House as always been well kept and rent paid on time. They barely ask the landlord for anything and often end up paying out money themselves to get things fixed.

    She's giving them a months notice. She's quite happy to let the landlord get involved in the new tenant process. It's just that anytime they ask the Landlord to do anything it takes them weeks to get it done and they never show up to meetings with them either.

    If she gets someone in and the landlord doesn't approve what are her rights?


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    #10
    JustMe,K
    Registered Users Posts: 610 ✭✭✭JustMe,K


    Panic Stations wrote: »
    There's genuinely no underlining issues (not on her side anyway). House as always been well kept and rent paid on time. They barely ask the landlord for anything and often end up paying out money themselves to get things fixed.

    She's giving them a months notice. She's quite happy to let the landlord get involved in the new tenant process. It's just that anytime they ask the Landlord to do anything it takes them weeks to get it done and they never show up to meetings with them either.

    If she gets someone in and the landlord doesn't approve what are her rights?

    I'm not sure there is provision in legislation for forcing a tenant on a LL

    Who actually pays the rent? Do they all pool together and one person pays the rent directly to the LL? If so, I would imagine that (although morally questionable) this is their problem more than your gfs problem.


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    #11
    Salary Negotiator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭Salary Negotiator


    Panic Stations wrote: »
    Yeah, she made it clear to them that it's just her.

    They've always made payment and the landlord isn't going to be out of pocket with her moving out.

    If it was me, I'd just advertise and find someone and then let the landlord meet the new tenant. Rinse and repeat until the landlord was happy with the tenant. Or create shortlist pf people that the other 2 are happy to share with and let he landlord decide.

    Realistically the landlord has made their bed by allowing previous tenants pick their replacement so can't now start being awkward.

    And if the landlord isn't willing to meet or doesn't turn up, have the 2 remaining tenants pick the replacement. Just make sure all correspondence is documented.


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    #12
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,930 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    JustMe,K wrote: »
    I'm not sure there is provision in legislation for forcing a tenant on a LL

    Who actually pays the rent? Do they all pool together and one person pays the rent directly to the LL? If so, I would imagine that (although morally questionable) this is their problem more than your gfs problem.

    The legislation does not force a tenant onto a landlord but it removes the need for the sitting tenant to give the statutory notice, that the landlord will be fined thousands if they don't give, by removing the need for the tenant to see out the lease or notice time if the landlord rejects the proposed new tenant.


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    #13
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,174 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Couple of important facts relating to your girlfriend’s tenancy.

    • Not having a written tenancy agreement makes absolutely no difference. They are not required.

    • After 6 months, a tenant gains statutory rights, this is called Part 4 tenancy rights. Both landlord and tenant have obligations under the Residential Tenancies Act.

    • If your gf is there 4 years, she has to give 84 days notice of terminating her tenancy.

    • She is allowed to assign her lease, pass it on to someone else, but the LL is allowed to refuse permission to assign. If he does, your gf can leave without paying the remainder of the notice period.

    • if your gf is unable to get someone to assign the lease to, then she is legally responsible for all rent during the notice period. But, the LL must try to mitigate this cost by getting a new tenant as soon as possible.

    • These RTA rules protect the tenant more than the LL, so don’t crib about having to give the required notice, your gf would be entitled to a longer notice period if the LL wanted to end her tenancy.


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    #14
    Panic Stations
    Registered Users Posts: 251 ✭✭Panic Stations


    JustMe,K wrote: »
    I'm not sure there is provision in legislation for forcing a tenant on a LL

    Who actually pays the rent? Do they all pool together and one person pays the rent directly to the LL? If so, I would imagine that (although morally questionable) this is their problem more than your gfs problem.


    I'm pretty sure they all pay separately into the landlords account.


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    #15
    Salary Negotiator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭Salary Negotiator


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Couple of important facts relating to your girlfriend’s tenancy.

    • Not having a written tenancy agreement makes absolutely no difference. They are not required.

    • After 6 months, a tenant gains statutory rights, this is called Part 4 tenancy rights. Both landlord and tenant have obligations under the Residential Tenancies Act.

    • If your gf is there 4 years, she has to give 84 days notice of terminating her tenancy.

    • She is allowed to assign her lease, pass it on to someone else, but the LL is allowed to refuse permission to assign. If he does, your gf can leave without paying the remainder of the notice period.

    • if your gf is unable to get someone to assign the lease to, then she is legally responsible for all rent during the notice period. But, the LL must try to mitigate this cost by getting a new tenant as soon as possible.

    • These RTA rules protect the tenant more than the LL, so don’t crib about having to give the required notice, your gf would be entitled to a longer notice period if the LL wanted to end her tenancy.

    As the girlfriend, and other tenants, pay their rent separately would they be viewed as having 3 different leases?

    Basically, can the girlfriend act independently of the other 2 tenants?


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    #16
    Panic Stations
    Registered Users Posts: 251 ✭✭Panic Stations


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Couple of important facts relating to your girlfriend’s tenancy.

    • Not having a written tenancy agreement makes absolutely no difference. They are not required.

    • After 6 months, a tenant gains statutory rights, this is called Part 4 tenancy rights. Both landlord and tenant have obligations under the Residential Tenancies Act.

    • If your gf is there 4 years, she has to give 84 days notice of terminating her tenancy.

    • She is allowed to assign her lease, pass it on to someone else, but the LL is allowed to refuse permission to assign. If he does, your gf can leave without paying the remainder of the notice period.

    • if your gf is unable to get someone to assign the lease to, then she is legally responsible for all rent during the notice period. But, the LL must try to mitigate this cost by getting a new tenant as soon as possible.

    • These RTA rules protect the tenant more than the LL, so don’t crib about having to give the required notice, your gf would be entitled to a longer notice period if the LL wanted to end her tenancy.

    Thank you for this. Bottom line is she has no problem getting someone in. In fact one of the other girls has her friend who might take the room. My girlfriend just wants to make sure she can get her deposit back and move out without any lingering threat.

    She said to the LL that people are coming to view the room this week and asked if the LL could come and meet them and they started going on saying how busy they were and how it wouldn't suit them.


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    #17
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Panic Stations wrote: »
    Thank you for this. Bottom line is she has no problem getting someone in. In fact one of the other girls has her friend who might take the room. My girlfriend just wants to make sure she can get her deposit back and move out without any lingering threat.

    She said to the LL that people are coming to view the room this week and asked if the LL could come and meet them and they started going on saying how busy they were and how it wouldn't suit them.



    The issue will be back at the LL if they refuse the new tenant


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    #18
    Panic Stations
    Registered Users Posts: 251 ✭✭Panic Stations


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The issue will be back at the LL if they refuse the new tenant

    And will it then become the LL responsibility to get a new tenant making her ok to leave?

    Her concern is that the LL will drag the approval process out even after she leaves.


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    #19
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,174 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Panic Stations wrote: »
    And will it then become the LL responsibility to get a new tenant making her ok to leave?

    Her concern is that the LL will drag the approval process out even after she leaves.

    All your gf has to do is give details of person she wants to assign lease to. If he refuses the assignment, then your gf can leave without paying out notice period and will get deposit back less any damages. The new tenant can just give his/her deposit to your girlfriend. So find someone ASAP to take her place in the property.


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    #20
    davindub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭davindub


    Dav010 wrote: »
    All your gf has to do is give details of person she wants to assign lease to. If he refuses the assignment, then your gf can leave without paying out notice period and will get deposit back less any damages. The new tenant can just give his/her deposit to your girlfriend. So find someone ASAP to take her place in the property.

    It's not assignment unless the OP's girlfriend has a tenancy herself (i.e not a shared one), so the rtb rule on assignment is likely not to apply in this house if they have been replacing themselves before

    Op you need to establish if she has a tenancy or shares a tenancy, if the latter it is between the housemates to replace and you are required to inform the landlord but still be nice and ask for references/ personal spec the LL is looking for (within reason) but ultimately it will be the housemates who need to be ok with replacement not the LL.


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    #21
    Curious1002
    Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭Curious1002


    smells like the LL wants to milk 2 cows at once - to get your gf pay the extra 4 months but have her out to allow the remaining girls get a new tenant who would pay the rent at the same time as you.

    LL will lose on any dispute if it ended up with PRTB. LL actively participated in the "old" arrangements where girls picked a new tenant so if he wanted to stop this custom then he should have communicated this way beforehand to the girls. He could have said "girls, from now on i want to have a say in choosing tenants".
    It works for you well if he doesnt find the time to meet with the prospective tenants. Ask him when he is available, schedule the viewings and if he is unhappy with the viewers - great, you have done your job.

    It's a pity that your gf even communicated anything to the LL. She and girls should have found the replacement like usual, get the deposit from the new tenant and wave the house for goodbye.


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    #22
    Panic Stations
    Registered Users Posts: 251 ✭✭Panic Stations


    Cheers for all the replies. Ah the LL just a muppet. Literally never do anything by the books and the girls never had any issues between them and have their own routine that works for getting new tenants in. I agree with you Curious that it sounds like the LL is trying to milk an extra 4 months.

    The LL is saying that they want one of the other girls friends to move in instead of some random person. Saying that their now uncomfortable about who's going to be moving in so want to be part of the vetting process.

    I should also mention that my gf is their primary point of contact between them and the LL so that's another reason why their not happy to see her go.


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