Understanding HAP

AdrianG08

Hi guys,

I would like some understanding in relation to the workings of HAP.

A friend of a friend lets say has informed my significant other that they have been approved for HAP to the tune of 1350 per month (based in Dublin). They are currently cohabiting, not married, and pay no rent whilst living with family. They are on housing list in some shape or form.

Now I know for a fact one half of this couple are working full time whilst the other has simply withdrawn from the working world in order to avail of the benefits one might accrue should they make themselves available.

This family are unmarried, have 1 child and of course are openly trying for more.

My question, is it possible to be eligible for this level of HAP payment, whilst one party to the couple works full time hours? probably makes between 25-28k pro rata aswell as extra for additional shifts.

That contribution is actually more than our mortgage payment, so I do not believe this to be true. Is it possible?

KBurke85

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/housing_assistance_payment.html

AdrianG08

KBurke85 wrote: »

Thank you for this info. But can you tell me what is the threshold if you are working?

Surely you cannot be claiming the maximum amount if one of the parties is working full time on a decent wage?

What are the wage thresholds before being eligible?

And will the state pay the rent for these people until a free house pops up (on the social housing list) for them to move into?

Sweet.Science

AdrianG08 wrote: »

Thank you for this info. But can you tell me what is the threshold if you are working?

Surely you cannot be claiming the maximum amount if one of the parties is working full time on a decent wage?

What are the wage thresholds before being eligible?

And will the state pay the rent for these people until a free house pops up (on the social housing list) for them to move into?

She is claiming she is a single mother

AdrianG08

Sweet.Science wrote: »

She is claiming she is a single mother

By that link kindly provided by another poster you can claim €1250 in dublin (for a couple and 1 child). Wording seems to be the same if its only 1 adult with 1 child, seems to be no differentiation.

I do not see the logic of this, it cannot be correct. Massive difference in single mother with 1 child claiming HAP of 1250 and couple (where 1 party if working full time) with 1 child claiming 1250 in HAP payment in Dublin

Am i missing something?

Gonad

AdrianG08 wrote: »

Thank you for this info. But can you tell me what is the threshold if you are working?

Surely you cannot be claiming the maximum amount if one of the parties is working full time on a decent wage?

What are the wage thresholds before being eligible?

And will the state pay the rent for these people until a free house pops up (on the social housing list) for them to move into?

You just have to be on the housing list to be able to claim HAP .

To be on the housing list you have to be earning under 45 K a year I believe .

So technically your friend could be earning even more than they are now and still be eligible for HAP. Just a certain amount of the earnings go towards the HAP payment .

So let’s say the house they rent on HAP is 1000 euro . The HAP will go directly into landlord account and the the % will be paid from your friend directly back to the council . So HAP will be 1000 euro and then I thinks it’s 10% of your friends earning will be paid from your friend back to the council . So if they earned 2000 a month they would be paying back the council 200 euros a month

But just to add if it’s in Dublin most likely the rent will be higher so they will probably be paying the landlord a few 100 euros themselves also a month from their own pockets

AdrianG08

Gonad wrote: »

You just have to be on the housing list to be able to claim HAP .

To be on the housing list you have to be earning under 45 K a year I believe .

So technically your friend could be earning even more than they are now and still be eligible for HAP. Just a certain amount of the earnings go towards the HAP payment .

So let’s say the house they rent on HAP is 1000 euro . The HAP will go directly into landlord account and the the % will be paid from your friend directly back to the council . So HAP will be 1000 euro and then I thinks it’s 10% of your friends earning will be paid from your friend back to the council . So if they earned 2000 a month they would be paying back the council 200 euros a month

But just to add if it’s in Dublin most likely the rent will be higher so they will probably be paying the landlord a few 100 euros themselves also a month from their own pockets

Thanks a million for your reply.

So hypothetically, they rent a house in south Dublin for 1800. HAP will cover 1250 based on the link provided. They are liable to pay the remainder of 550 per month?

Gonad

AdrianG08 wrote: »

Thanks a million for your reply.

So hypothetically, they rent a house in south Dublin for 1800. HAP will cover 1250 based on the link provided. They are liable to pay the remainder of 550 per month?

Yes 550 plus 10% of their earnings will also need to be paid to the council . The council won’t take into considerations anything after the 1250. That’s between the renter and the landlord . They will just deduct their % from your earnings and you cover the left overs with landlords .

In special circumstances if it’s the only property the renter can get and they genuinely can’t afford the extra few hundred euros they can ask the council for a bit extra and they might get lucky .

Saudades

Gonad wrote: »

Yes 550 plus 10% of their earnings will also need to be paid to the council .

I believe in Dublin it's actually 15% paid to the DCC.

AdrianG08 wrote: »

they rent a house in south Dublin for 1800. HAP will cover 1250 based on the link provided. They are liable to pay the remainder of 550 per month?

probably makes between 25-28k pro rata aswell as extra for additional shifts.

For an income of 28k per year, they'll be making a monthly HAP payment of 350. (Actually HAP is paid weekly, so 80.77 a week).

They will pay 550 a month to the landlord, and 350 a month to DCC.

So they are paying 900 a month from an income of 2333.33. Around 40%. It's still quite a lot to be paying in rent but I guess normal these days.

AdrianG08 wrote: »

That contribution is actually more than our mortgage payment, so I do not believe this to be true. Is it possible?

Yes it looks fine to me. Nothing illegal or untoward going on if that's your query.

Is your mortgage payment as high as 40% of your income?

Whilst on the surface it seems unfair they are getting handed help with rent payments, in my opinion, you being the home-owner are in a much better position. They will likely have to pay rent forever - even if given a council home one day I still think that's also rent payable at 15% of their income - whilst when your mortgage is paid off, you won't have anymore payments to worry about and will have an asset worth 6 figures or more and you will also likely enjoy a better quality of retirement too.

Alternatively, say if the other partner decided to work and earn the same money as their partner, with a joint income of 56k, they would be in a position to consider a mortgage of their own.

handlemaster

AdrianG08 wrote: »

Thanks a million for your reply.

So hypothetically, they rent a house in south Dublin for 1800. HAP will cover 1250 based on the link provided. They are liable to pay the remainder of 550 per month?

This is you OP right?

Saudades

handlemaster wrote: »

This is you OP right?

I doubt it, the OP has already said they have a mortgage.

Gonad

Saudades wrote: »

I believe in Dublin it's actually 15% paid to the DCC.



For an income of 28k per year, they'll be making a monthly HAP payment of 350. (Actually HAP is paid weekly, so 80.77 a week).

They will pay 550 a month to the landlord, and 350 a month to DCC.

So they are paying 900 a month from an income of 2333.33. Around 40%. It's still quite a lot to be paying in rent but I guess normal these days.



Yes it looks fine to me. Nothing illegal or untoward going on if that's your query.

Is your mortgage payment as high as 40% of your income?

Whilst on the surface it seems unfair they are getting handed help with rent payments, in my opinion, you being the home-owner are in a much better position. They will likely have to pay rent forever - even if given a council home one day I still think that's also rent payable at 15% of their income - whilst when your mortgage is paid off, you won't have anymore payments to worry about and will have an asset worth 6 figures or more and you will also likely enjoy a better quality of retirement too.

Alternatively, say if the other partner decided to work and earn the same money as their partner, with a joint income of 56k, they would be in a position to consider a mortgage of their own.

Good information . Apologies I thought it was 10%. That’s the thing most people think people on HAP are living for free but most of them are paying more than what would be considered affordable houses for most .

The government need to totally rethink the housing market . They could easily borrow the money for 1000’s of homes and their repayments needed on those homes would only be a fraction of what people are paying on HAP and other “affordable” housing schemes . They would easily be able to get the repayments needed and the rest of the money left over would go back into the economy.

Blanco100

How does being on HAP affect a place on housing list?

riclad

A single mother who is living in a hotel ,eg is homeless may get priority
on the housing list vs a single mother who is on hap in rental accomodation.
people on the housing list get point,s , for how long they are on it,
how many children they have,
Housing is offered first to people on the top of the list.with the most points .
i think they fill in council form, on the form you can pick 3 area.s ,eg city centre, finglas, dublin 15.
i presume you would get extra points for being homeless .
i think it would be simpler and faster to ease the housing crisis,
to build a few 1000 housing 2 and 3 bed units in dublin .
the government owns 100,s of acres of land all over dublin.
It would be better for the environment to build 7-10 story blocks,
to make maximum use of resources in the area.
This would save money , rather than spending more money on hap every year .

antoinolachtnai

Gonad wrote: »

The government need to totally rethink the housing market . They could easily borrow the money for 1000’s of homes and their repayments needed on those homes would only be a fraction of what people are paying on HAP and other “affordable” housing schemes . They would easily be able to get the repayments needed and the rest of the money left over would go back into the economy.

HAP is actually cheap enough for the exchequer. When you net out the income tax it is costing maybe 700 euros per month to house a family in Dublin. You can’t build for anything like that price. DCC by way of example spends hundreds of euros per month just managing and maintaining its existing rental stock. DCC puts the cost of a new unit at well over 300,000 to build, excluding the value of the land.

HAP also lends itself well to housing integration. The best thinking and research points to the importance of housing integration.

The government can’t just go out and borrow money. There are borrowing limits since the Fiscsl Stability Pact.

What HAP fails to do is really directly address the undersupply of new homes. Housing a person on HAP helps the individual but it doesn’t solve the bigger problem - the population is growing, older buildings are becoming obsolete, but not nearly enough new homes are being built.

GoneHome

AdrianG08 wrote: »

So hypothetically, they rent a house in south Dublin for 1800. HAP will cover 1250 based on the link provided. /QUOTE]

Thanks Leo, it's a great wee country :rolleyes:

GoneHome

AdrianG08 wrote: »

Now I know for a fact one half of this couple are working full time whilst the other has simply withdrawn from the working world in order to avail of the benefits one might accrue should they make themselves available.

As Enda used to say "Let's keep the recovery going" :rolleyes:

Fol20

Gonad wrote: »

Good information . Apologies I thought it was 10%. That’s the thing most people think people on HAP are living for free but most of them are paying more than what would be considered affordable houses for most .

The government need to totally rethink the housing market . They could easily borrow the money for 1000’s of homes and their repayments needed on those homes would only be a fraction of what people are paying on HAP and other “affordable” housing schemes . They would easily be able to get the repayments needed and the rest of the money left over would go back into the economy.

How about you compare what a person paying their way independently vs someone on HAP is first. I suspect a lot of renters will be paying more than 10pc on rent. I know at least within my friend circle some are paying over 700-800 on a house share while i have a tenant that pays the 10pc and tops it up by 50e for a 2 bed apartment. You tell me which person might have a better setup.

They can easily borrow more money even though we are already in over 60b in debt and growing. We see how well other countries are when they are heavily indebted. We are one of the most indebted countries in eu and were getting by as our economy is growing so quick. I dont want to roll the dice and be like greece if our economy does poorly at some point in the future. I would prefer to have less debt and live within our means.We are also obliged by eu law to be below certain debt repayments so we cant go over this limit either. As you see its not so easy to just go off and borrow money to a money pitt to solve an issue.

Letwin_Larry

as a LL whenever i advertise, i always getloads of HAP renters looking to view.
somehow it never seems to work out.

Gonad

Fol20 wrote: »

How about you compare what a person paying their way independently vs someone on HAP is first. I suspect a lot of renters will be paying more than 10pc on rent. I know at least within my friend circle some are paying over 700-800 on a house share while i have a tenant that pays the 10pc and tops it up by 50e for a 2 bed apartment. You tell me which person might have a better setup.

They can easily borrow more money even though we are already in over 60b in debt and growing. We see how well other countries are when they are heavily indebted. We are one of the most indebted countries in eu and were getting by as our economy is growing so quick. I dont want to roll the dice and be like greece if our economy does poorly at some point in the future. I would prefer to have less debt and live within our means.We are also obliged by eu law to be below certain debt repayments so we cant go over this limit either. As you see its not so easy to just go off and borrow money to a money pitt to solve an issue.

I know of one family who couldn’t find anyone to take HAP and finally found a landlord to take it .

The father is working as a painter and is taking home about 600 per week and the mother cannot work due to private circumstances .

Last time we spoke the father told me he was paying the landlord nearly 700 euro directly into his bank every month to cover the difference for rent .

If he is also paying 15% of his wages that is another 360 euros per month .

So this family who are already struggling are still having to pay nearly 1000 euros a month rent .Nearly 2 weeks of his wages just to have a house over the families heads . If that guy gets sick or anything happens where they have to leave they are homeless with probably no savings to their names as they only really have 2 weeks wages to live on per month. You would only be paying that type of rent a few years ago in Dublin before everyone went mad and prices shot up . I used to rent a 3 bed house in south Dublin for 1000 a month . Same house now double that just a few years later . It’s madness .

Fol20

Gonad wrote: »

I know of one family who couldn’t find anyone to take HAP and finally found a landlord to take it .

The father is working as a painter and is taking home about 600 per week and the mother cannot work due to private circumstances .

Last time we spoke the father told me he was paying the landlord nearly 700 euro directly into his bank every month to cover the difference for rent .

If he is also paying 15% of his wages that is another 360 euros per month .

So this family who are already struggling are still having to pay nearly 1000 euros a month rent .Nearly 2 weeks of his wages just to have a house over the families heads . If that guy gets sick or anything happens where they have to leave they are homeless with probably no savings to their names as they only really have 2 weeks wages to live on per month. You would only be paying that type of rent a few years ago in Dublin before everyone went mad and prices shot up . I used to rent a 3 bed house in south Dublin for 1000 a month . Same house now double that just a few years later . It’s madness .

The value of the property has also doubled for that 3 bed so to keep the ll in the game and not sell. Rent had to follow as well.

When rents were lower the yield was actually better as the purchase price was much lower as well.

AdrianG08

Gonad wrote: »

I know of one family who couldn’t find anyone to take HAP and finally found a landlord to take it .

The father is working as a painter and is taking home about 600 per week and the mother cannot work due to private circumstances .

Last time we spoke the father told me he was paying the landlord nearly 700 euro directly into his bank every month to cover the difference for rent .

If he is also paying 15% of his wages that is another 360 euros per month .

So this family who are already struggling are still having to pay nearly 1000 euros a month rent .Nearly 2 weeks of his wages just to have a house over the families heads . If that guy gets sick or anything happens where they have to leave they are homeless with probably no savings to their names as they only really have 2 weeks wages to live on per month. You would only be paying that type of rent a few years ago in Dublin before everyone went mad and prices shot up . I used to rent a 3 bed house in south Dublin for 1000 a month . Same house now double that just a few years later . It’s madness .

I know people who are paying that without HAP assistance. There are legitimate cases of people who are trying to make a go of things i.e one parent is working their arse off and the other minds the kids.

My issue is when is it ok to start questioning peoples decisions to have 2/3 kids when they are struggling.

I know of a couple (he is working full time/she isn't at all) and they are claiming homeless hap (living in the husbands mothers granny flat with their 4 year old). Originally looking for HAP, the health board have now cleared them to claim even more on homeless hap (as the granny flat is deemed unsuitable for their needs). Homeless HAP allows them to claim 1750 per month towards the rent with deposit and months rent covered.

However, no landlord will take them on. Now knowing both, I would never rent to them as they are type of people to take care of all their luxuries before they will stump up their own rent, and the landlord will certainly get burned. It simply will happen. And when they get their foot in somewhere they will simply have another kid in order to embolden their position. Just for the record, im not embelishing this story. This scenario plays out nationwide.