Details on Kona, Niro, E-Soul battery.

https://electricrevs.com/2018/12/20/exclusive-details-on-hyundais-new-battery-thermal-management-design/

Interesting stuff.

Regular reports now of slow charging on DC in the Kona, probably e-soul and Niro too if they use the same battery.

Interesting U.S versions of the Kona get no heat pump or battery heater, Canadian versions don't and we don't know for sure about European versions. You can be sure if it's possible it will be omitted from the Irish spec.

Interesting to read is that the Niro in the U.S will have battery heating as an option and heat pump as standard it would be interesting to know if those options are listed in the Irish spec, anyone know ?

The 40 Kwh Kona uses the same cooling / heating setup and perhaps the 40 Kwh Ioniq.

The i3 heats to 10 Deg C but only when plugged in to AC and has a depart timer set 4 hrs in advance , 10 degrees is enough for max acceleration and regen, when battery temp falls to 5 deg C and below you certainly notice the loss of power. So keeping it plugged in at night will ensure max acceleration, with depert timer set 4 hrs in advance and pre-conditioning set.

10 Deg C is not enough for current on DC though, if setting off at 100% charge and driving until needing to charge it will be plenty warm enough for max charge current.

Sad to see new vehicles limited to 77 Kw in 2020 too, the Niro, E-soul and Kona, a real shame. Time to go to higher voltage batteries.

I'll be test driving the E-soul next Wednesday hopefully, I'm getting it from Dooley Motors in Carlow next week.

graememk

Irish E niro has the heat pump (its on the spec sheet as the "Inner Condenser HVAC") and battery heater.

The UK first edition spec didnt have the battery heater, the 2020 one does.

Shame about the 77kw limit on the DC fast charging, Only way that is going to change will be a redesign of the battery, prob when they bring out a whole new model, and switch the production lines to that.

Round Cable

With word that the 2020 Kia e-Niro is retailing at €41k, surely the more powerful, rear wheel drive Ford Mustang Mach-e, with 75.7kWh battery and 115kw DC fast charging at €50k must be entering the mix of consideration for people.

graememk

Round Cable wrote: »

With word that the 2020 Kia e-Niro is retailing at €41k, surely the more powerful, rear wheel drive Ford Mustang Mach-e, with 75.7kWh battery and 115kw DC fast charging at €50k must be entering the mix of consideration for people.

Thats taking aim right at the Tesla 3 and/or the model Y. Still quite a leap from 41k to a starting price of 50k. Personally I'd take a FWD over a RWD anyday. But each to their own

Lumen

Round Cable wrote: »

With word that the 2020 Kia e-Niro is retailing at €41k, surely the more powerful, rear wheel drive Ford Mustang Mach-e, with 75.7kWh battery and 115kw DC fast charging at €50k must be entering the mix of consideration for people.

The Taycan looked good on paper too, until its appalling efficiency was uncovered. And we still don't have many/any independent range tests.

The major advantage of Tesla and Hyundai/Kia is that they're known quantities.

graememk

graememk wrote: »

Thats taking aim right at the Tesla 3 and/or the model Y. Still quite a leap from 41k to a starting price of 50k. Personally I'd take a FWD over a RWD anyday. But each to their own

Have you ever driven a FWD ev with some power ? the 150 HP Leaf, 200 Hp Kona have appalling wheel spin in damp and wet and even the Kona in the dry. Yes put better wet grip tyres on and it will help but won't cure the problem and it is a big problem as far as I'm concerned.

It's much more difficult to get the RWD i3 to spin the wheels and taking off hard at junctions and roundabouts is much less frustrating in the i3.

I'm actually not sure I could live with a FWD ev again.

0-100 Km/hr times also feel much longer with such little traction.

innrain

Round Cable wrote: »

With word that the 2020 Kia e-Niro is retailing at €41k, surely the more powerful, rear wheel drive Ford Mustang Mach-e, with 75.7kWh battery and 115kw DC fast charging at €50k must be entering the mix of consideration for people.

Keep in mind that for eNiro/Kona 77kW is peak speed. It is only for <40% battery. Charging speed drops in few stages for battery between 40% and 70%. We need to see how 115 kW charging curve will look before judging.


I think for Model 3 there is 10k difference from SR+ and LR

Look at the charging curves https://support.fastned.nl/hc/en-gb/articles/360012178313-Charging-with-a-Tesla-Model-3?utm_source=WebEN-Car&utm_campaign=Klant-support&utm_medium=Hyper1


There are about 50Kw difference in charging speeds. This alone would warrant LR purchase over SR+ (not to mention AWD, better interior, 100km more range, more power(?))

KCross

graememk wrote: »

Personally I'd take a FWD over a RWD anyday.

Why is that? Do you feel FWD is superior in some way?

I cant think of any reason to pick a FWD over a RWD, all other things being equal.

Maybe with the exception of icy conditions where a RWD can be a bit more challenging to control.

thelikelylad

innrain wrote: »

Look at the charging curves https://support.fastned.nl/hc/en-gb/articles/360012178313-Charging-with-a-Tesla-Model-3?utm_source=WebEN-Car&utm_campaign=Klant-support&utm_medium=Hyper1


There are about 50Kw difference in charging speeds. This alone would warrant LR purchase over SR+ (not to mention AWD, better interior, 100km more range, more power(?))

FWIW that charging curve is out of date, SR+ now peaks at 170kW

shanemkelly

Deleted User wrote: »

...I'll be test driving the E-soul next Wednesday hopefully, I'm getting it from Dooley Motors in Carlow next week.

Would be interested in what you think...

shanemkelly

shanemkelly wrote: »

Would be interested in what you think...

Cheers, I'll be interested to compare it to the Kona, I took the Kona in warm weather so I will have to bear that in mind.

Lumen

KCross wrote: »

Why is that? Do you feel FWD is superior in some way?

Maybe F stands for "Four".

krissovo

KCross wrote: »

Maybe with the exception of icy conditions where a RWD can be a bit more challenging to control.

This has not been a problem since the mid 80's, long gone are the days of a Mercedes needing to put a bag of cement in the boot to get up hills in winter.

There will be a rear wheel drive revolution soon, certainly with ground up designed EV's. Front wheel drive was only there to cheapen the cost of cars and manufacturing. Now motors are built into the axle there is no need for front wheel drive.

KCross

krissovo wrote: »

This has not been a problem since the mid 80's, long gone are the days of a Mercedes needing to put a bag of cement in the boot to get up hills in winter.

I was thinking more along the lines of controlling the car rather than just simple wheel spin. If you've only ever driven a FWD and you get into a RWD in icy conditions you could find it more challenging to control around corners.

Sending power to the wheels will give a different effect in FWD vs RWD in some scenarios.

krissovo wrote: »

There will be a rear wheel drive revolution soon, certainly with ground up designed EV's. Front wheel drive was only there to cheapen the cost of cars and manufacturing. Now motors are built into the axle there is no need for front wheel drive.

You'd hope but even some brand new EV models in 2020 are still coming in FWD. As you said, RWD should become more common though.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

Why is that? Do you feel FWD is superior in some way?

It's safer. Easier to control over or near the edge and less likely to go over the edge in the first place.

Personally I prefer RWD. Preferably with a mid rear engine setup. And no drivers aids

graememk

KCross wrote: »

Why is that? Do you feel FWD is superior in some way?

Maybe with the exception of icy conditions where a RWD can be a bit more challenging to control.

Icy conditions is a big factor, as it would be few km for me before I get to treated roads ( if/when they get done). And possibly more untreated roads depending on where I'm going. - personal preference,

pdpmur

graememk wrote: »

Icy conditions is a big factor, as it would be few km for me before I get to treated roads ( if/when they get done). And possibly more untreated roads depending on where I'm going. - personal preference,

Your needs would probably be best suited by a 4wd car. The good news is that a 4wd ev is still relatively efficient (and much more so than the ICE equivalent), albeit more expensive than the 2wd ev equivalent.
And by using winter tyres in the winter, of course.