Arc Fault Detection devices AFDDs

Anybody installed them ?
What way to you think the regs will go on them ?
One per circuit ?Sockets and lights?
One main one?
Could get expensive for the customer fast!

I'll be upgrading my own CU later in the year once my house rewire is finished so have an interest.

2011

BrownFinger wrote: »

Anybody installed them ?

Nope, not yet. They are wired just like an RCD and provide the functionality of same as well as having other features.

What way to you think the regs will go on them ?

As per the draft revision of IS10101
The new rules are a bit fuzzy on this. Essentially they are for “high risk locations”.

One per circuit ?Sockets and lights?

That is up to the designer I would think.

One main one?

I would think this is a bad idea as the risk of nuisance tripping may be too high.

Could get expensive for the customer fast!

I was talking to someone from the ESBI who specifies these a lot. He pays €50 per unit. I assume he buys in bulk.

I'll be upgrading my own CU later in the year once my house rewire is finished so have an interest.

I would not expect many to be used in domestic installations.

advise_needed

:eek:

BrownFinger wrote: »

Anybody installed them ?
What way to you think the regs will go on them ?
One per circuit ?Sockets and lights?
One main one?
Could get expensive for the customer fast!

I'll be upgrading my own CU later in the year once my house rewire is finished so have an interest.

having my own rewire atm and am curious what type of board you will be fitting if you have given it any consideration as i was concerned about about future proofing and from i can see the brits mostly use single rows but i saw this and was wondering if this was overkill?

http://imgur.com/a/NK6L9Vk

2011

2011 wrote: »

Nope, not yet. They are wired just like an RCD and provide the functionality of same as well as having other features.

Interesting,
50e a pop wouldn't be to bad if they are a AFDD/RCBO .
Take a look at these ones form OEZ

http://www.oez.com/news/arc-fault-detection-devices-afdd

Modular design
OEZ offers AFDD designed as kits. In case of OEZ solution the user assembles the arc fault protection device. It is easy. You can assemble AFDD from

- arc fault detection unit (AFD unit) and
- LTS/LTK circuit breaker (MCB) or residual current circuit breaker with overcurrent protection OLE/OLI (RCBO)

advise_needed

advise_needed wrote: »

if this was overkill?

http://imgur.com/a/NK6L9Vk

Well since I'm rewring my whole house myself,the whole install is overkill
Do it once and do it right.

I'll be trying to source a 4/5 row recessed unit.I have quite a few circuits and some din rail mounted IOT controllers .

2011

^^^ My thoughts exactly

deandean

I've seen a few new CU's in high spec houses recently and they are practically to industrial standard - RCBOs for every circuit, etc.
For sure this style of board takes up a LOT of space.

2011

deandean wrote: »

I've seen a few new CU's in high spec houses recently and they are practically to industrial standard - RCBOs for every circuit, etc.
For sure this style of board takes up a LOT of space.

.....unless you use single mod RCBOs like this:



However space is then lost by those who install IOT kit and surge protection in DB’s.

advise_needed

BrownFinger wrote: »

Well since I'm rewring my whole house myself,the whole install is overkill
Do it once and do it right.

I'll be trying to source a 4/5 row recessed unit.I have quite a few circuits and some din rail mounted IOT controllers .

well with future proofing and the push to get away from gas and oil if there was a push towards electric storage heating i could easily see 10 ish mcb 1 per heater quickly filling a board, unless depending on load you could double up some of the mcbs.

2011

advise_needed wrote: »

well with future proofing and the push to get away from gas and oil if there was a push towards electric storage heating i could easily see 10 ish mcb 1 per heater quickly filling a board, unless depending on load you could double up some of the mcbs.

Electric storage heating went out with the Indians. Air source heat pumps are now what is considered best for modern homes.

advise_needed

2011 wrote: »

Electric storage heating went out with the Indians. Air source heat pumps are now what is considered best for modern homes.

i cant ever see that happening.

government "oil and gas is now illegal you'll all have to get heat pumps"

everyone "how much will it cost?"

government "10k but you'll probally spend 30-40k deep retrofitting you're houses so the heat doesn't pour out and so you wont flush money down the jax for the crack"

2011

2011 wrote: »

Electric storage heating went out with the Indians. Air source heat pumps are now what is considered best for modern homes.

I've heard electrics heaters will be coming back.
not storage heaters.
Never seen the single sized RCBOs.I'll deffo be looking into them.
Rest of my gear is ABB and I hate mismathcing :pac:

2011

advise_needed wrote: »

i cant ever see that happening.

I hate to break it to you but this has already happened. New modern homes up and down the country are now built with air source heat pumps as standard.

government "oil and gas is now illegal you'll all have to get heat pumps"

Im not sure where this came from.

everyone "how much will it cost?"

Only a small increase in terms of overall price for a new modern home.

2011

BrownFinger wrote: »

I've heard electrics heaters will be coming back.

Heat pumps aren't really electric heaters, they produce more of heat energy than they consume in terms of electrical energy thus providing the end user with a cost effective way of heating a home. Note: They only perform well when installed correctly in a suitable building.

By comparison electric heaters provide a very expensive way of heating a home.

Bruthal

Heat pumps dont technically produce heat for the actual heating, they transfer it from one area or medium to another.

You can heat a room to 20 degrees from air outside that is at 0 degrees. But the volume needed to be drawn through the evaporator will be far higher than the volume of the room, and the volume difference is greater, the higher the temperature rise needed is.

So 100 cubic meters of air at 10 degrees will have more heat in it than 10 cubic meters at 30 degrees for example.

kramer1

Bruthal wrote: »

Heat pumps dont technically produce heat for the actual heating, they transform it from one area or medium to another.

You can heat a room to 20 degrees from air outside that is at 0 degrees. But the volume needed to be drawn through the evaporator will be far higher than the volume of the room, and the volume difference is greater, the higher the temperature rise needed is.

So 100 cubic meters of air at 10 degrees will have more heat in it than 10 cubic meters at 30 degrees for example.

Any idea of the running / install costs? I've wired a couple of heat pumps, interesting stuff, just wondering if they're worth it?

advise_needed

2011 wrote: »

I hate to break it to you but this has already happened. New modern homes up and down the country are now built with air source heat pumps as standard.



Im not sure where this came from.



Only a small increase in terms of overall price for a new modern home.

i accept it is happening a new build near me is using them however another build is using gas as its primary heating source. but i was talking more along the lines of retrofitting where if you dont start off with a high enough ber to get the most out of the heat pump


ultimately oil and gas will go the way of the dodo, isint oil being phased out from new builds next year.

2011

kramer1 wrote: »

Any idea of the running / install costs? I've wired a couple of heat pumps, interesting stuff, just wondering if they're worth it?

Heat pumps produce "low grade heat" as such they are only suited to homes with BER rating of at least A2. Most of the electricity consumed is by the compressor.

When properly installed in a suitable building the running cost is below that of a oil or gas boiler. Many with heat pumps take advantage of off peak rates. Straight away there is no requirement to pay the standing charge for a gas connection.

They work on exactly the same principle as a fridge. Within a heat pump you will find a heat exchanger, refrigerant gas, an evaporator, a condenser and a compressor. Heat pumps essentially extract heat from outside and transfer it to inside.

kramer1

2011 wrote: »

Heat pumps produce "low grade heat" as such they are only suited to homes with BER rating of at least A2. Most of the electricity consumed is by the compressor.

When properly installed in a suitable building the running cost is below that of a oil or gas boiler. Many with heat pumps take advantage of off peak rates. Straight away there is no requirement to pay the standing charge for a gas connection.

They work on exactly the same principle as a fridge. Within a heat pump you will find a heat exchanger, refrigerant gas, an evaporator, a condenser and a compressor. Heat pumps essentially extract heat from outside and transfer it to inside.

Cheers, any idea how much the pump costs?

2011

kramer1 wrote: »

Cheers, any idea how much the pump costs?

No, sorry. Just like wiring a house a large part of the cost is the labor. From an electrical perspective they are quite simple to wire and connect up.

Bruthal

kramer1 wrote: »

Any idea of the running / install costs? I've wired a couple of heat pumps, interesting stuff, just wondering if they're worth it?

Not sure of install costs. Running costs vary for a given size house. The colder it is outside, the more the heat pump mechanism has to run. If you double the temperature difference from outside to inside, you have to double the air volume across the evaporator.

They are a refrigeration unit basically. With the cooling coil outside, and condenser inside.

I would imagine a ground source would be more efficient, but more expensive to install.