High Oil in Silage Sample.

Mushy06

Hi All,

i've been finishing cattle in shed since Sep. They're up to about 5 kg a day of ration and beet as well as silage. They went into shed at average 470kg and now only average 530kg. Initially on bale silage and they were thriving. Since i switched to pit silage in Nov they are melting before my eyes. i got silage tested when i opened the pit and it was at 74DMD and i got results back today saying its at 79DMD but oils were really high at 6.1. i've started feeding straw loosely before xmas and they tearing for it over silage. they have no interest in silage at moment. i cant figure out whats causing them to lose so much condition. its hard enough to put it on. mix of fresian,AA,HE
Silage was made on 12th MAY and got 15hrs wilt. All newly reseeded ground

i was just wondering would the high oils in silage caused them to turn away from silage and if so is there anyway to remedy it?

Any help would be great as i'm all out of ideas

Cavanjack

Mushy06 wrote: »

Hi All,

i've been finishing cattle in shed since Sep. They're up to about 5 kg a day of ration and beet as well as silage. They went into shed at average 470kg and now only average 530kg. Initially on bale silage and they were thriving. Since i switched to pit silage in Nov they are melting before my eyes. i got silage tested when i opened the pit and it was at 74DMD and i got results back today saying its at 79DMD but oils were really high at 6.1. i've started feeding straw loosely before xmas and they tearing for it over silage. they have no interest in silage at moment. i cant figure out whats causing them to lose so much condition. its hard enough to put it on. mix of fresian,AA,HE

i was just wondering would anyone know how to remedy the high oils. Silage was made on 12th MAY and got 15hrs wilt. All newly reseeded ground.

Any help would be great as i'll all out of ideas

Not much help to you on the silage end of things but have you dosed the cattle and are they covered for everything?
Weight gain is very poor. It does sound like a silage problem though as I never saw cattle eat straw before silage.
I’ve 120kg+ on bullocks that are being fed since September and the silage wasn’t cut till mid June. They are eating more meal than yours though and were 100kg stronger going into the shed. I’d have expected Your cattle to weigh 530kg now without meal or beet on that good silage. Have you asked a nutritionist or whoever tested the silage for you?

Mushy06

Cavanjack wrote: »

Not much help to you on the silage end of things but have you dosed the cattle and are they covered for everything?
Weight gain is very poor. It does sound like a silage problem though as I never saw cattle eat straw before silage.
I’ve 120kg+ on bullocks that are being fed since September and the silage wasn’t cut till mid June. They are eating more meal than yours though and were 100kg stronger going into the shed. I’d have expected Your cattle to weigh 530kg now without meal or beet on that good silage. Have you asked a nutritionist or whoever tested the silage for you?

The worst part is that i've 15 still out on rough ground on bales and nothing else and they're flying. i had hoped affected bunch would've been gone before xmas and lads outside wouldve replaced them in shed. i dont want to bring them in if there's issues with pit silage now. All were dosed down throat and got animec on back as well. Might take dung samle next week as well. Also awaiting mineral analysis of silage

Mooooo

What are the rest of the silage results?

Mushy06

DM.24.7
protein.10.5
ME.12
sugars.4.5
ash.9.1
oil.6.1
intake potenial 97.8
ph 3.5

Mooooo

Beet would be low protein, silage is low also, what are you feeding in the meal? Possibility the bales may have been higher protein. Also straw may help, you a diet feeder?

wrangler

Mushy06 wrote: »

DM.24.7
protein.10.5
ME.12
sugars.4.5
ash.9.1
oil.6.1
intake potenial 97.8
ph 3.5

ph is very low, 3.5 is too acidic isn't it, I'm sure you've got professional advice

SuperTortoise

Mushy06 wrote: »

DM.24.7
protein.10.5
ME.12
sugars.4.5
ash.9.1
oil.6.1
intake potenial 97.8
ph 3.5

I would have thought both the PH and Protein are low considering new seed and ideal time to cut. How does the silage look and smell like? Is it going black shortly after feeding out?

blue5000

Mushy06 wrote: »

Hi All,

i've been finishing cattle in shed since Sep. They're up to about 5 kg a day of ration and beet as well as silage. They went into shed at average 470kg and now only average 530kg. Initially on bale silage and they were thriving. Since i switched to pit silage in Nov they are melting before my eyes. i got silage tested when i opened the pit and it was at 74DMD and i got results back today saying its at 79DMD but oils were really high at 6.1. i've started feeding straw loosely before xmas and they tearing for it over silage. they have no interest in silage at moment. i cant figure out whats causing them to lose so much condition. its hard enough to put it on. mix of fresian,AA,HE
Silage was made on 12th MAY and got 15hrs wilt. All newly reseeded ground

i was just wondering would the high oils in silage caused them to turn away from silage and if so is there anyway to remedy it?

Any help would be great as i'm all out of ideas

How long was N out? Still your CP is low though. I never heard of oil being a problem TBH. What does it smell like to you?

Mushy06

Mooooo wrote: »

Beet would be low protein, silage is low also, what are you feeding in the meal? Possibility the bales may have been higher protein. Also straw may help, you a diet feeder?

No Diet feeder, its on the shopping list. i've done this diet for years but this year is 1st time this has happened. meal is a 12% protein. i was giving same ration to other cattle out the field and they all gone 1st week of Dec

Mushy06

blue5000 wrote: »

How long was N out? Still your CP is low though. I never heard of oil being a problem TBH. What does it smell like to you?

Its strange one alright. N was out before paddy's week and at that i wouldn't be hitting the 100units of N as all new reseeded grass. i've 70 weanlings on same silage and they seemed to be flying on same diet. Smells grand. its not going off/moldy it is a bet wet though

Mushy06

SuperTortoise wrote: »

I would have thought both the PH and Protein are low considering new seed and ideal time to cut. How does the silage look and smell like? Is it going black shortly after feeding out?

i've 70 weanlings on same silage and they seemed to be flying on same diet. Smells grand. its not going off/moldy it is a bet wet though

Mushy06

wrangler wrote: »

ph is very low, 3.5 is too acidic isn't it, I'm sure you've got professional advice

My professional help told me to add straw, awaiting to hear back about mineral analysis might show up something. its a strange one, was hoping some one else might had same issue. its just i put such emphasis on silage quality last year. i was at 64 DMD the year before. One thing i'd say is that since i added the straw they dont seem to be lifting their feet any more.
A neighbour said about adding hydrated lime to help ph.

As the Greek fella said one time "the more you know the more you don't know"

mr.stonewall

Could it be a touch of acidosis since they went on this silage. How about halving the meal for a bit let them settle on it and then build up again. Keep straw in the diet for roughage

Bass Reeves

12 May is really early to cut silage. Fertilizer was out about 55 day.N application should be.no higher than 70-80 in that situation as growth will not use up 3 units/day until mid April at earliest

Ash and oil are high. Protein, PH and sugar's are low. ME is incredible at over 12 equivlent to a ration. Where did you get it tested. Talk to an advisor/nutritionist there. This looks strange did s foreign body get into it. Was the loading shovel or something else leaking oil.

Mooooo

Oil above 5% seem to reduce fibre digestion. With the silage at 10% cp the beet is prob below 10% p also. You need a higher p meal with a high fibre content as well. Meal made up to balance minerals when feeding beet also
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.teagasc.ie/media/website/animals/beef/feed-options.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj0tq_q0OnmAhXxSBUIHa7tC_UQFjADegQIBRAH&usg=AOvVaw2ac_zB2iszyyl8m-hsW87u

Mushy06

Below is full silage results

Mushy06

Bass Reeves wrote: »

12 May is really early to cut silage. Fertilizer was out about 55 day.N application should be.no higher than 70-80 in that situation as growth will not use up 3 units/day until mid April at earliest

Ash and oil are high. Protein, PH and sugar's are low. ME is incredible at over 12 equivlent to a ration. Where did you get it tested. Talk to an advisor/nutritionist there. This looks strange did s foreign body get into it. Was the loading shovel or something else leaking oil.

It'd be doing well if it got 70/80 units of N. i had it at back of my mind as it was putting out fertilizer as i wanted early cut of silage. its a very stange one indeed. i got it tested in Kinsale

patsy_mccabe

Mushy06 wrote: »

...... A neighbour said about adding hydrated lime to help ph ...

Is it not Limestone Flour you should add? Hydrated Lime as in cubicle lime - would that not burn them?

yosemitesam1

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Is it not Limestone Flour you should add? Hydrated Lime as in cubicle lime - would that not burn them?

Lime won't do anything for rumen ph. It won't be dissolved until it hits the stomach

Cavanjack

Bass Reeves wrote: »

12 May is really early to cut silage. Fertilizer was out about 55 day.N application should be.no higher than 70-80 in that situation as growth will not use up 3 units/day until mid April at earliest

Ash and oil are high. Protein, PH and sugar's are low. ME is incredible at over 12 equivlent to a ration. Where did you get it tested. Talk to an advisor/nutritionist there. This looks strange did s foreign body get into it. Was the loading shovel or something else leaking oil.

Cut 80 bales here on 12th may also (old ley) and it is rocket fuel. Finished bulls in 70 days on it with meal before Christmas.

Mushy06

Cavanjack wrote: »

Cut 80 bales here on 12th may also (old ley) and it is rocket fuel. Finished bulls in 70 days on it with meal before Christmas.

Exactly thats whats i was hopping for! they're something a miss somewhere. i'm afraid to drop ration as its probably only thing that was consistent in diet

amacca

Mushy06 wrote: »

Exactly thats whats i was hopping for! they're something a miss somewhere. i'm afraid to drop ration as its probably only thing that was consistent in diet

Just out of curiosity....would you happen to know what grass varieties did you use when reseeding the meadow the silage was cut from?

also was it just straight nitrogen you put on or was there p & k and trace minerals in what you spread as well?