Will Shane Ross take a pay cut ?

Wilfuler.

He's saying Mick McCarthy could take one

Will he do it himself

salmocab

If the country is about to go out of business he should

TheRepentent

Wilfuler. wrote: »

He's saying Mick McCarthy could take one

Will he do it himself

I think after hours would be a better forum to post your brainfarts

Jonny one

Wilfuler. wrote: »

He's saying Mick McCarthy could take one

Will he do it himself

Government ministers pay is already cut over 30% since 2008.

silver2020

Let's look at the figures

Shane Ross - Gross circa €175k. Fully taxed. Net after tax = circa €95k.


Mick McCarthy - Gross €1.2 MILLION. Paid gross for Mick to do an annual return and take advantage of whatever tax breaks are possible. Tax is probably paid in the UK to UK exchequer.

osarusan

McCarthy's €1.2 million puts him above 19 of the managers at last year's world cup.

Managers of Belgium, Switzerland, Iceland, Croatia, Sweden, Serbia and Poland all earning less.

Ridiculous money really in comparison to what our idea of football 'success' is.

salmocab

osarusan wrote: »

McCarthy's €1.2 million puts him above 19 of the managers at last year's world cup.

Managers of Belgium, Switzerland, Iceland, Croatia, Sweden, Serbia and Poland all earning less.

Ridiculous money really in comparison to what our idea of football 'success' is.

Does he not finish up in the summer anyway?

osarusan

salmocab wrote: »

Does he not finish up in the summer anyway?

Yeah, after the Euros.


I wonder how much of a reduction is salary there will be for Stephen Kenny.

salmocab

osarusan wrote: »

Yeah, after the Euros.


I wonder how much of a reduction is salary there will be for Stephen Kenny.

Might be to zero with no employer the way they are carrying on at the moment

Boggles

osarusan wrote: »

Yeah, after the Euros.


I wonder how much of a reduction is salary there will be for Stephen Kenny.

Massive I imagine as he doesn't have the same level of experience as McCarthy.

TBF to the FAI which is quite hard, when they take the approach of getting in an experienced manager that they pay a premium for we do actually qualify for tournaments.

Also to be fair to Uncle Dinny which is even harder he did stump up about 10 million in wages for the international team - Delaney publicly announcing his contribution wasn't required any more is pretty hilarious given what we now know.

Donald Trump

Must be a tough job. Writing 11 names on a bit of paper a handful of times a year. Watching Match-of-the-day the odd Saturday.

People used to moan about Mick O'Dywer getting a few Euro in travel expenses from Kerry to Kildare or Wicklow. But giving a few million to a ould fella who used to kick a ball around to do a part time job and not even have to train any teams seems retarded.

No wonder that "organization" (yeah yeah, irony) is broke

RobbingBandit

Why aren't they lynching Delaney he should be up in front of a judge for the embezzlement of everything he got but nope let's go after who's left rather than the crooked rats that left the sinking ship.

KWAG2019

The real pay cut that spoofer and useless poser Ross needs is to lose his seat. An utter tragedy that he will be playing the saviour of Irish soccer. And he will do it with taxpayers money and live off it politically for years.

salmocab

KWAG2019 wrote: »

The real pay cut that spoofer and useless poser Ross needs is to lose his seat. An utter tragedy that he will be playing the saviour of Irish soccer. And he will do it with taxpayers money and live off it politically for years.

He won’t be playing anything much longer, there will be an election soon and he will be very unlikely to come back as a minister.

Idbatterim

silver2020 wrote: »

Let's look at the figures

Shane Ross - Gross circa €175k. Fully taxed. Net after tax = circa €95k.


Mick McCarthy - Gross €1.2 MILLION. Paid gross for Mick to do an annual return and take advantage of whatever tax breaks are possible. Tax is probably paid in the UK to UK exchequer.

Better than being squandered in this banana republic !

Idbatterim

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Why aren't they lynching Delaney he should be up in front of a judge for the embezzlement of everything he got but nope let's go after who's left rather than the crooked rats that left the sinking ship.

I don’t understand why the government didn’t tell the fai, that if they gave Delaney another red cent , they would cease funding immediately and permanently!

Pawwed Rig

silver2020 wrote: »

Mick McCarthy - Gross €1.2 MILLION. Paid gross for Mick to do an annual return and take advantage of whatever tax breaks are possible. Tax is probably paid in the UK to UK exchequer.

What tax breaks do you have in mind?

How much would he earn in a championship club if he hadn't taken the Ireland job?

threeball

Idbatterim wrote: »

I don’t understand why the government didn’t tell the fai, that if they gave Delaney another red cent , they would cease funding immediately and permanently!

Would create a precedent which could affect their own nest feathering down the line should they get kicked to touch. They see these contracts as sacrosanct as they've already assured their own security.

User142

Its laughable watching the FAI, their workers and fans attack the government because it won't just roll over and open up taxpayers money for them to use to cover this disaster.

Not one cent of our tax money should go to giving this joke of an organisation a clean slate. Let UEFA and FIFA, who hate government intervention, come in and bail them out.

https://www.the42.ie/fifa-uefa-letter-fai-shane-ross-comments-4732181-Jul2019/ - July 2019 - Fifa and Uefa 'seriously concerned' over government interference on FAI

Pawwed Rig

User142 wrote: »

Its laughable watching the FAI, their workers and fans attack the government because it won't just roll over and open up taxpayers money for them to use to cover this disaster.

I am on a few of the fan forums and go to a good proportion of the away games. There are few if any fans advocating a government bailout. There are concerns being raised as to how anyone with an credibility can claim they did not know what was happening though. It has been common knowledge for years that the organisaton were incompetent and John Delaney has for a long time been reviled by the fans. I remember during the Stephen Staunton era hearing chants for Delaney out.

threeball

User142 wrote: »

Its laughable watching the FAI, their workers and fans attack the government because it won't just roll over and open up taxpayers money for them to use to cover this disaster.

Not one cent of our tax money should go to giving this joke of an organisation a clean slate. Let UEFA and FIFA, who hate government intervention, come in and bail them out.

https://www.the42.ie/fifa-uefa-letter-fai-shane-ross-comments-4732181-Jul2019/ - July 2019 - Fifa and Uefa 'seriously concerned' over government interference on FAI

Not a soccer fan but the grassroots shouldn't have to be wiped out. They should cut the upper echelons loose and either let them sink or let UEFA or fifa bail them out. A grassroots organisation should be developed and given moderate levels of funding with a government representative on the board of directors. Not a single cent should ever go to CEO's or the international team ever again.

LoughNeagh2017

Imagine going out of your way to support millionaire sportsmen who have better lives than everyone in the stands. I prefer to attend concerts because you aren't there directly to support the rich person, they are there to entertain you. This is best seen at the end of events, in sport the players applaud the fans for supporting them whereas after a concert the crowd applaud the musicians for providing them with entertainment.

In sport entertainment isn't the main factor, fans would rather watch a boring 1-0 win than a 5-4 game that their team loses.

salmocab

LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »

Imagine going out of your way to support millionaire sportsmen who have better lives than everyone in the stands. I prefer to attend concerts because you aren't there directly to support the rich person, they are there to entertain you. This is best seen at the end of events, in sport the players applaud the fans for supporting them whereas after a concert the crowd applaud the musicians for providing them with entertainment.

In sport entertainment isn't the main factor, fans would rather watch a boring 1-0 win than a 5-4 game that their team loses.

You appear to have posted this in the wrong place, imagine people liking different things to you.

Pawwed Rig

LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »

In sport entertainment isn't the main factor, fans would rather watch a boring 1-0 win than a 5-4 game that their team loses.

Do you speak for all fans here?

The majority of the football games I goto I earn more than any of the players in the pitch. There is little money to be earned in playing football in Ireland. I goto away international games for a variety of reasons one of which is the entertainment factor. The fans applaud the players at the end of games too you know.
Similarly at your concerts the singer will generally thank the audience at the end.

Pauliedragon

LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »

Imagine going out of your way to support millionaire sportsmen who have better lives than everyone in the stands. I prefer to attend concerts because you aren't there directly to support the rich person, they are there to entertain you. This is best seen at the end of events, in sport the players applaud the fans for supporting them whereas after a concert the crowd applaud the musicians for providing them with entertainment.

In sport entertainment isn't the main factor, fans would rather watch a boring 1-0 win than a 5-4 game that their team loses.

I like sport you like concerts. Neither is right or wrong.

salmocab

Pauliedragon wrote: »

I like sport you like concerts. Neither is right or wrong.

I like both and generally applaud both.

ChikiChiki

threeball wrote: »

Not a soccer fan but the grassroots shouldn't have to be wiped out. They should cut the upper echelons loose and either let them sink or let UEFA or fifa bail them out. A grassroots organisation should be developed and given moderate levels of funding with a government representative on the board of directors. Not a single cent should ever go to CEO's or the international team ever again.

I would be more involved in the GAA but It's sad that the kids and LOI clubs will suffer greatly. Delaney used the FAI as his own personal fund. In my opinion he has caused untold damage for generations to come. Everyone involved in football will suffer. If he doesn't get 10 years I will be disgusted.

I remember meeting him in Coppers on a Monday not long after Poland. He was in there with the brother. He bought me and my friends a pint (probably on FAI funds) and went out of his way to say that all that was written about his antics in Poland at the time were lies. Why would he be protesting his innocence so much to the likes of myself with little interest in soccer. I could smell the bull**** off him. That's his shtick, spread a few crumbs about whilst he pillages the treasure.

Odious cretin.

threeball

ChikiChiki wrote: »

I would be more involved in the GAA but It's sad that the kids and LOI clubs will suffer greatly. Delaney used the FAI as his own personal fund. In my opinion he has caused untold damage for generations to come. Everyone involved in football will suffer. If he doesn't get 10 years I will be disgusted.

I remember meeting him in Coppers on a Monday not long after Poland. He was in there with the brother. He bought me and my friends a pint (probably on FAI funds) and went out of his way to say that all that was written about his antics in Poland at the time were lies. I could smell the bull**** off him. That's his shtick, spread a few crumbs about whilst he pillages the treasure.

Odious cretin.

He hasn't a hope of even seeing a charge let alone 10yrs. The white collar crowd make sure no one in their peer group ever gets justice in this country, a mutual back scratching society. Far more likely to see him getting paid to give after dinner speeches or appointed to the board of some company or other.

Stovepipe

Shane Ross is independently wealthy (stockbroker) and probably worth more than Mick McCarthy. If he thinks MickMc should take a pay cut, then he should lead by example and take the equivalent pay cut. Otherwise, he should **** right off.

goose2005

Boggles wrote: »

Massive I imagine as he doesn't have the same level of experience as McCarthy.

TBF to the FAI which is quite hard, when they take the approach of getting in an experienced manager that they pay a premium for we do actually qualify for tournaments.

Also to be fair to Uncle Dinny which is even harder he did stump up about 10 million in wages for the international team - Delaney publicly announcing his contribution wasn't required any more is pretty hilarious given what we now know.

Trapattoni was an appalling manager. Ireland qualified because they got easy draws - the only teams they beat were Macedonia, Armenia, Andorra and Estonia.

ChikiChiki

Stovepipe wrote: »

Shane Ross is independently wealthy (stockbroker) and probably worth more than Mick McCarthy. If he thinks MickMc should take a pay cut, then he should lead by example and take the equivalent pay cut. Otherwise, he should **** right off.

That's not how it works....

Stovepipe

I know. He's trying to imply that McCarthy's payscale is immoral and that he should take a hit out of some kind of twisted logic that it's unacceptable for a football manager to be well paid, for a short-duration contract, yet it's acceptable for a politician to have a Minister's pension and unvouched expenses, as par for the course.

salmocab

Stovepipe wrote: »

I know. He's trying to imply that McCarthy's payscale is immoral and that he should take a hit out of some kind of twisted logic that it's unacceptable for a football manager to be well paid, for a short-duration contract, yet it's acceptable for a politician to have a Minister's pension and unvouched expenses, as par for the course.

Well yes but the two aren’t related. Nor should they be for that matter.

Stovepipe

Couldn't agree with you more.Ross shouldn't have said it. It was politically and personally stupid of him.

salmocab

Stovepipe wrote: »

Couldn't agree with you more.Ross shouldn't have said it. It was politically and personally stupid of him.

No he shouldn’t have said it but his wages and mc carthys are not related.

osarusan

Stovepipe wrote: »

Shane Ross is independently wealthy (stockbroker) and probably worth more than Mick McCarthy. If he thinks MickMc should take a pay cut, then he should lead by example and take the equivalent pay cut. Otherwise, he should **** right off.

This is up there with 'you can't complain about the homeless situation unless you are looking after a homeless person in your own home' logic.

Stovepipe

No,it's not. Ross has a long track record of complaining about the privileges of others, when it suits his agenda, especially judges and politicians and he filled many a Sindo column with attacks on those he considered to be enjoying status and privilege that he felt they didnt deserve. He dropped his column like a hot coal as soon as he gained political office, because he soon realised that he couldnt very well slag off his new colleagues on a Sunday. He has no business sticking the boot in against McCarthy, given that McC negotiated his contract fairly and legally and above board for all to see and has no dirt in his FAI record. Attacking McC is disingenuous and diverting from the real issue, which is the future survival of the FAI.

osarusan

I agree that he should have said nothing about McCarthy.

But McCarthy is an employee of the FAI, and, if they even survive, there will be pay cuts and job losses all over the place. McCarthy might be pressured to do as Trap did and volunteer for a pay cut.

Ross is not employed by the FAI, and the argument about him taking a pay cut himself only makes sense if his department/the government/country has effectively gone bankrupt.

paleoperson

Surely Mick McCarthy is a private contractor and the contract is already signed? Seems like an immensely daft statement on the face of it.

Donald Trump wrote: »

Must be a tough job. Writing 11 names on a bit of paper a handful of times a year. Watching Match-of-the-day the odd Saturday.

People used to moan about Mick O'Dywer getting a few Euro in travel expenses from Kerry to Kildare or Wicklow. But giving a few million to a ould fella who used to kick a ball around to do a part time job and not even have to train any teams seems retarded.

Who are you talking about? If that's your way of arguing that an international manager's job is easy and Mick McCarthy isn't qualified then you're making an absolute fool of yourself.

Zimmerframe

Shane Ross should keep his mouth permanently shut.
He has nothing useful to say about any subject on earth, including Mick McCarthy.

expectationlost

Boggles wrote: »

Massive I imagine as he doesn't have the same level of experience as McCarthy.

TBF to the FAI which is quite hard, when they take the approach of getting in an experienced manager that they pay a premium for we do actually qualify for tournaments.

Also to be fair to Uncle Dinny which is even harder he did stump up about 10 million in wages for the international team - Delaney publicly announcing his contribution wasn't required any more is pretty hilarious given what we now know.

and you think that a was fair thing to have {redacted] having an outsized influence over events which probably helped keep Delaney in the job for years longer.

Donald Trump

paleoperson wrote: »

Surely Mick McCarthy is a private contractor and the contract is already signed? Seems like an immensely daft statement on the face of it.

Not at all. The employer is insolvent. Without a government bail out that contract will effectively be cut to zero or near zero

paleoperson wrote: »

Who are you talking about? If that's your way of arguing that an international manager's job is easy and Mick McCarthy isn't qualified then you're making an absolute fool of yourself.

11 is an awkward number. Some people might confuse it with 12. Or even 10. For example, a manager could be in charge of a team playing extra time against Spain in a World Cup game and not realize that Spain only have 10 players on the pitch. That is why it would be worth the extra money to get a fella who can go all the way to 11.

paleoperson

Do you actually think that is somehow amusing or clever or a good point in any way? Do you really?

Hands up anyone who enjoyed "Donald Trump"'s posts in this thread and thinks they were in any way good.

Mick McCarthy is a good manager with lots of top flight (recently more second-tier) experience. If you don't like him, just make some points about his experience and results instead of this nonsense.

Donald Trump

paleoperson wrote: »

Do you actually think that is somehow amusing or clever or a good point in any way? Do you really?

Hands up anyone who enjoyed "Donald Trump"'s posts in this thread and thinks they were in any way good.

Mick McCarthy is a good manager with lots of top flight (recently more second-tier) experience. If you don't like him, just make some points about his experience and results instead of this nonsense.

You might think that being an international manager is a really difficult job. That's subjective of course. You might also think that tying your shoelaces yourself in the morning would be a really difficult job. I don't know. Either way I wouldn't agree that either is worth over a million quid a year. Especially for an underperforming country where it is the second or third choice sport.

Do you think John Delaney was underpaid too maybe? Surely running an entire national organisation is more complicated and difficult than managing a single team? Do you think he should have been given his payoff. I mean I'm sure he had a contract. The same as the FAI had a contract with the Gardai last year and didn't pay them.

How much do you think McCarthy should be paid? Is 1.2 million or whatever even enough in your estimation.

Here is a list of salaries. Granted it's 3 years old. But it can give some reference regarding value for money. These are all European countries too - whom one would imagine get paid more on average. Ireland are currently ranked 34th. Lets restrict it to those in top 40 ranked countries worldwide whose managers were being paid less for that competition: The country name is followed by their current ranking and then their manager salary (in GBP for some reason) at Euro 16:
Russia (40). No salary but was a short term deal with paid on performance bonuses
Iceland (39). 346k
Romania (37) 92k
N. Ireland (36). 250k
Slovakia (32). 135k
Ukraine (24). 104k
Wales (22). 200k
Poland (19). 200k
Sweden (17). 154k
Switzerland (12). 575k
Portugal (7). 962k
Croatia (6). 192k
Belgium (1). 515k

So McCarthy gets paid as much as the all higher-ranked 6th+17th+19th+22nd+24th+32nd combined :rolleyes:

The oul' soccerball is a joke unfortunately. FAI should be let go to the wall and the public money it is given should be funneled into properly run sports such as GAA or rugby or athletics or boxing. Even hockey or cricket or basketball or table tennis. Whatever can run itself properly.

And yes. In a game in the world cup in 2002, McCarthy's team played extra time against a team with 10 men. When asked about it afterwards by a journalist - he was surprised as he hadn't realised.
Could you imagine Mick O'Dywer not noticing his opponents were down to 14 men? I couldn't. And that man is in his 80's and wouldn't be getting paid a few hundred grand per game to sit on the sideline and watch it....

paleoperson

Donald Trump wrote: »

You might think that being an international manager is a really difficult job. That's subjective of course. You might also think that tying your shoelaces yourself in the morning would be a really difficult job. I don't know. Either way I wouldn't agree that either is worth over a million quid a year. Especially for an underperforming country where it is the second or third choice sport.

It's not really that subjective. Managers are clearly worth a lot to their clubs or they wouldn't be paid so much. Pep Guardiola is being paid £20.7 million. Ireland will make millions of euros if it qualifies for Euro 2020 or Qatar 2022.

Nobody should be paid a million euro a year, but it could well be worth paying something in that ballpark from financial arguments.

Donald Trump wrote: »

Do you think John Delaney was underpaid too maybe? Surely running an entire national organisation is more complicated and difficult than managing a single team?

Apples and oranges. Is acting worth hundreds of millions of euro for one movie? It could be. Running a national organisation could well be simple and easy. Every decision do as seems sensible to you, consult with others, no results that can be clearly compared to those of another person, noone breathing down your back at every result. Sounds like a walk in the park.

Donald Trump wrote: »

Do you think he should have been given his payoff. I mean I'm sure he had a contract. The same as the FAI had a contract with the Gardai last year and didn't pay them.

They still owe the gardai the money. Noone in the gardai will be out of pocket because of the FAI. John Delaney will also have a contract and will try to get out of it what he can.

The deal with McCarthy has already been done though, you can't renege on that or the contract is broken.

Donald Trump wrote: »

How much do you think McCarthy should be paid? Is 1.2 million or whatever even enough in your estimation.

Here is a list of salaries. Granted it's 3 years old. But it can give some reference regarding value for money. These are all European countries too - whom one would imagine get paid more on average. Ireland are currently ranked 34th. Lets restrict it to those in top 40 ranked countries worldwide whose managers were being paid less for that competition: The country name is followed by their current ranking and then their manager salary (in GBP for some reason) at Euro 16:
Russia (40). No salary but was a short term deal with paid on performance bonuses
Iceland (39). 346k
Romania (37) 92k
N. Ireland (36). 250k
Slovakia (32). 135k
Ukraine (24). 104k
Wales (22). 200k
Poland (19). 200k
Sweden (17). 154k
Switzerland (12). 575k
Portugal (7). 962k
Croatia (6). 192k
Belgium (1). 515k

So McCarthy gets paid as much as the all higher-ranked 6th+17th+19th+22nd+24th+32nd combined :rolleyes:

Fair point.

Donald Trump wrote: »

The oul' soccerball is a joke unfortunately. FAI should be let go to the wall and the public money it is given should be funneled into properly run sports such as GAA or rugby or athletics or boxing. Even hockey or cricket or basketball or table tennis. Whatever can run itself properly.

Those sports already get vast amounts of public funding. Rugby and boxing are incredibly violent and dangerous sports. Noone actually cares about athletics or field hockey, except maybe once every two or four years when they feel half-obligated and half out of curiosity when they switch on the olympics or european games.

Donald Trump wrote: »

And yes. In a game in the world cup in 2002, McCarthy's team played extra time against a team with 10 men. When asked about it afterwards by a journalist - he was surprised as he hadn't realised.
Could you imagine Mick O'Dywer not noticing his opponents were down to 14 men? I couldn't. And that man is in his 80's and wouldn't be getting paid a few hundred grand per game to sit on the sideline and watch it....

One blunder in how many years and you're still going on about it? Clearly he was concentrating on his own team and the general play for the amount of time this was the case, it could happen to anyone. Yes it could happen Mick O' Dwyer, you don't see 30 players at the same time.