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Accepting foreign honours

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  • 29-12-2019 12:13am
    #1
    Credit Checker Moose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭


    What are the penalties for accepting a foreign honour without asking the Irish Government first?


    Just curious.


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    #2
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,241 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    A paddlin’. Or nothing. Either.


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    #3
    touts
    Registered Users Posts: 6,439 ✭✭✭touts


    Credit Checker Moose wrote: »
    What are the penalties for accepting a foreign honour without asking the Irish Government first?


    Just curious.

    Just tell Liz you cant accept it because, you know, she's not actually your monarch and you don't live in her country.

    But if it was me I'd go for it. The Irish Government really has nothing to do with it and it will piss off the local shinner supporters something awful :-)


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    #4
    vector
    Registered Users Posts: 1,756 ✭✭✭vector


    a knighthood is an honour but what about life peerage?
    (a peerage could be considered a job because if you attend the lords you receive payment)


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    #5
    Bicyclette
    Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭Bicyclette


    vector wrote: »
    a knighthood is an honour but what about life peerage?
    (a peerage could be considered a job because if you attend the lords you receive payment)

    You can apply for a work visa then.


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    #6
    KWAG2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 834 ✭✭✭KWAG2019


    Interesting legal question. I suspect there are none. An area for reform given the confusion evident even here about a foreign state, it’s institutions and its honours many of which celebrate Empire.

    I neglected to add that Art 40.2.2 requires permission from the govt to accept foreign honours.


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    #7
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,812 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    KWAG2019 wrote: »
    Interesting legal question. I suspect there are none. An area for reform given the confusion evident even here about a foreign state, it’s institutions and its honours many of which celebrate Empire.

    I neglected to add that Art 40.2.2 requires permission from the govt to accept foreign honours.


    Definately something that will need to be looked at especially in the context of a UI. Our northern brethren will need to keep their honours titles etc. and may ease the transition.


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    #8
    KWAG2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 834 ✭✭✭KWAG2019


    saabsaab wrote: »
    Definately something that will need to be looked at especially in the context of a UI. Our northern brethren will need to keep their honours titles etc. and may ease the transition.

    There is no UI context. There is a legal prohibition without apparent penalty for violation. That anomaly must be addressed first. Losing passport for 10 years or revocation of citizenship etc might wean some off their liking for “Royal” pats on the head.


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    #9
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,812 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    KWAG2019 wrote: »
    There is no UI context. There is a legal prohibition without apparent penalty for violation. That anomaly must be addressed first. Losing passport for 10 years or revocation of citizenship etc might wean some off their liking for “Royal” pats on the head.


    At present yes but there is an imminent UI situation that should be taken into account in any new development.


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    #10
    KWAG2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 834 ✭✭✭KWAG2019


    saabsaab wrote: »
    At present yes but there is an imminent UI situation that should be taken into account in any new development.

    I sincerely hope you have never been involved in any negotiations of consequence.


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    #11
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,299 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    KWAG2019 wrote: »
    Losing passport for 10 years or revocation of citizenship etc might wean some off their liking for “Royal” pats on the head.

    I'm not sure that loss of travel rights and/or citizenship would be constitutional and/or in line with the state's international obligations about not making people stateless.


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    #12
    KWAG2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 834 ✭✭✭KWAG2019


    Victor wrote: »
    I'm not sure that loss of travel rights and/or citizenship would be constitutional and/or in line with the state's international obligations about not making people stateless.

    Possibly not. Used to show that taking foreign honours in defiance of the constitution is a serious breach and not one to be trivialized.

    International obligations and law might not be the great bulwark we all imagine. There possibly should be a thread about how it has been diminished. I see Policy Exchange proposals in UK now pushing for clear supremacy of domestic law and limits on civil service advice based on it.


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    #13
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,812 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    This seems to be the way around it as per I T article.



    Article 40.2.2 of the Constitution.



    The Article states that "no title of nobility or honour may be accepted by any citizen except with the prior approval of the Government". The requirement only applies to full honours, to which titles are attached, and does not apply to honorary awards like that bestowed on Mr Sutherland.


    The rock star and campaigner Bob Geldof and singer Daniel O'Donnell are among a range of Irish citizens to have previously received honorary awards, for which the recipient is not required to kneel before Queen Elizabeth.


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