Planting broadleave forest and grant

2020herewego

Hello,

First post but have been reading alot of treads. Hoping this is the right place to post as a few different points to my post.

My husband and I are considering buying 40 acres of agricultural land with a dwelling house on it, house is in need of modernisation.

The land hasn't been farmed in 30+ years, in OK condition considering.

Husband is from farming background but doesn't have a green cert and is pass the age for it I think.

Thinking of planting 25 acres of land with native woodland using the forestry grant scheme, long term plan is the rest of the land would be for rare breed sheep and cows, along with veg garden and hens and ducks and a pair of pigs possibly.

Regards the forestry grant, what happens after the 15 years? Who is responsible for cutting the trees and must you replant? what do we need to consider or know about planting and having forestry on our land? Who would have access to the forestry? Can the planted land be used as shelter for sheep? Is there any reason you wouldnt get the grant?

I guess the next point is more business / financial, but is it possible to go to the banks for a long term business/ farm loan to purchase the land and using the potential income from the forestry as a way of repaying? I presume you Would you need a business plan but any insight would be great.

Thank you

TooOldBoots

2020herewego wrote: »

Hello,

First post but have been reading alot of treads. Hoping this is the right place to post as a few different points to my post.

My husband and I are considering buying 40 acres of agricultural land with a dwelling house on it, house is in need of modernisation.

The land hasn't been farmed in 30+ years, in OK condition considering.

Husband is from farming background but doesn't have a green cert and is pass the age for it I think.

It's worth doing at any age

Thinking of planting 25 acres of land with native woodland using the forestry grant scheme, long term plan is the rest of the land would be for rare breed sheep and cows, along with veg garden and hens and ducks and a pair of pigs possibly.

Regards the forestry grant, what happens after the 15 years? Who is responsible for cutting the trees and must you replant? what do we need to consider or know about planting and having forestry on our land? Who would have access to the forestry?

After 15 years you stop getting grant aid. The forest/trees remain the same, growing away
You are responsible for cutting and thinning the trees. Plenty of Foresters out there that do that work. Usually the cost of thinning is covered by the sale of the timber but very extra for you to keep. As for the harvest of the full grown trees then the same would apply whereby a forester would harvest the trees for you except the value of the mature trees is much higher so you would make money from it
Nobody has access to the forestry except you of a Dept of Ag on official business.

Can the planted land be used as shelter for sheep? Is there any reason you wouldnt get the grant?

Yes, but without access to the forest for the sheep
There is a different forestry grant (Agroforestry) which allows grazing and trees on the same land. https://www.teagasc.ie/crops/forestry/grants/establishment-grants/agroforestry/
while this is a good option in my opinion the grants are not good enough to justify turning the status of your land from farmland to forestry land.

I guess the next point is more business / financial, but is it possible to go to the banks for a long term business/ farm loan to purchase the land and using the potential income from the forestry as a way of repaying? I presume you Would you need a business plan but any insight would be great.

Thank you

business plan would be simple enough, but it would be advisable to get a forester to do the sums on the costings/grants etc Banks would look more favourably on his input than yours.
The reality is Banks will still want to see other income sources. (They want the best of all worlds)
Best of luck with it

Bass Reeves

Forrestry grant for 10HA of hardwood will be 6200-6800 euro/year. Usually on this size farm banks are reluctant to factor in farm income in calculating how much of a loan they will give especially as you are not farming at present. However they may allow forestry premium as an income source. Even in the best case scenario it is likely you will not receive any premium for 12-18 months minimum.

However I wonder is the land suitable for hardwoods if it is fairly good quality land it is unusual that there was no farming income on it for the last 20+years. I suspect that it may not be great quality but that would still leave it suitable for forrestry but maybe.not for oak or beech.

After premium are finished it is assumed you will derive income from thinings but on smaller sites this can be marginal. As well If it comes from hardwoods is in a longer time frame.

You state that you are intending to farm rare breeds. This sounds like a hobby rather than commercial farming. I suspect that any bank will want you to finance the loan from existing personal income rather than planned farm income.

You will need to let the forestry mature before you allow sheep in. Even then sheep can get entangled in heavy undergrowth

Good loser

Have forestry myself but would not advise to anyone with half decent land, certainly not arable land i.e. stuff that can grow barley for example.

Hardwoods completely destroy the capital value of the land i.e. the underlying land is WORTHLESS once it is planted with hardwoods.
Softwoods are somewhat better - but not much.

Birdnuts

Good loser wrote: »

Have forestry myself but would not advise to anyone with half decent land, certainly not arable land i.e.


Hardwoods completely destroy the capital value of the land i.e. the underlying land is WORTHLESS once it is planted with hardwoods.
Softwoods are somewhat better - but not much.

Well some of the most fertile soils in the country owe their origins to the original hardword forest cover that provided the basis for humus,fungal etc. development that are vital for long term soil sustainability. In contrast commercial non-native softwood plantations destroy soils via acidification etc. The problem in this country is that our forestry policies are very primitive compared to most of the rest of Europe - due in no small part to the near total wipeout of our native woods by the 1800's which meant the knowledge and skills of intergrating native forestry into agriculture was lost. In contrast if you visit places like Southern France and parts of Eastern Europe the plots of hardwoods provide a steady stream of usefull materials and functions for individual farmers and the wider rural community.

Birdnuts

I would also add that well hardwood timbered country estates are the ones that make premium prices when they come to market as they appeal to a wide range of high end buyers.

Good loser

Birdnuts wrote: »

Well some of the most fertile soils in the country owe their origins to the original hardword forest cover that provided the basis for humus,fungal etc. development that are vital for long term soil sustainability. In contrast commercial non-native softwood plantations destroy soils via acidification etc. The problem in this country is that our forestry policies are very primitive compared to most of the rest of Europe - due in no small part to the near total wipeout of our native woods by the 1800's which meant the knowledge and skills of intergrating native forestry into agriculture was lost. In contrast if you visit places like Southern France and parts of Eastern Europe the plots of hardwoods provide a steady stream of usefull materials and functions for individual farmers and the wider rural community.

Hardwoods are nice to look at but are seriously non commercial.
Would not recommend them to anybody.
The alders that are mixed in with many softwoods are not much better than weeds.
The way things are going these days with permissions, objections and environmental issues I can see a day coming when clear felling of hardwoods will be banned - or maybe a permission needed for each tree!

tabby aspreme

Teagasc are holding free forestry advisory clinics from 20th-30 th January, anyone interested take a look at there website.

ana_conda

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Teagasc are holding free forestry advisory clinics from 20th-30 th January, anyone interested take a look at there website.

Thanks for posting this do you know where its happening? Do you have any links?

victor8600

ana_conda wrote: »

Thanks for posting this do you know where its happening? Do you have any links?

https://www.teagasc.ie/crops/forestry/advice/

Sign up for their newsletter on the page above and you will get the invitations.

Castlekeeper

ana_conda wrote: »

Thanks for posting this do you know where its happening? Do you have any links?

Just ring up your local Teagasc office to make an appointment.

Squiggle

ana_conda wrote: »

Thanks for posting this do you know where its happening? Do you have any links?

Teagasc clinics.