Junior Colleague berating senior colleague in public

susieball

Hi! My colleague, J, who is a senior nurse is being picked over on a daily basis by a junior nurse, who is qualified only 2 years. My colleague, and friend, has been qualified for 20 years. The junior colleague is only in the job 2 years. My friend/colleague, J, is there a year. The junior colleague has made it clear she has aspirations for management. I and my colleague/friend, J, have no such aspirations. J is far more qualified academically than the junior colleague/nurse, but doesn't really say much about it.

What is happening, and what I have witnessed is, that every time my colleague, J, is in charge when the manager is not there, every decision she makes is criticised by Junior colleague, S, in front of others, although all the decisions that J, my colleague/friend makes are good, well-thought out decisions. Junior colleague S, has even begun mocking J - last time, saying she was always panicking, and getting up in the middle of the office floor with a doctor looking on, imitating a trembling person. My senior colleague/friend, J, isn't a panicked at all, but just very thorough. J, my senior colleague stood up to S, and told her that was enough and not to treat her like that in front of anyone else again, but the just on Monday, J asked the junior colleague if something was still happening in regards to a patient, as she hadn't been there on Friday for the doctor's Ward Round. In the middle of the corridor, looking no patients were around, she berated my senior colleague, J, for asking her things that she should already know. My colleague J said how could she know them as she wasn't in on the Friday, and it hadn't been handed over on Monday morning. Then she started shouting and stating my colleague, J, was always coming to her and asking her things, and that J, was the senior colleague nurse and should initiate things herself. J, my senior colleague, then stated to S, that whenever she initiated anything, S criticised her that it was wrong, and anyway, she wasn't in on Friday and could not possibly know what the doctor had advised, that it would take too long to read the notes, as the patient was looking for an answer straight away. J then challenged S about always criticising her and mocking her. S started shouting and coming closer to J stating - where are the examples, where are the examples, as J started to mention them. Then J just said that S should talk to the manager if she had any issues with her work. At this point the Manager poked her head out of her office - she had heard the whole thing. S probably knew the manager was there and didn't care. S and the manager are great friends. My friend/colleague is really upset and doesn't want to go back to work next Friday. My friend/colleague stayed the remainder of the day and tried to be professional and get the work done. Any suggestions on how to handle this?

gordongekko

Yeah stay out of it

gmisk

HR

Apiarist

susieball wrote: »

...Any suggestions on how to handle this?

Your friend should talk to the HR.

susieball

Thanks for replies. I told her I don't have much faith in HR, but maybe it's worth a try. I don't agree with staying out of it - too much bullying and no one says anything. I'm not going to deliberately stir the pot, but if asked, will say what I have witnessed. All this stuff is so prevalent.

Mango Joe

gordongekko wrote: »

Yeah stay out of it

There's too much of this passive nonsense always - Sometimes the silent bystanders need show a bit of integrity and spine and tell the bully to go f*** themselves.....

Thoie

J should make notes of times, dates and situations whenever these happen. Have a separate notebook just for that purpose.

If you want to help, you should also keep a notebook for anything you personally witness (not the stuff J has told you, just things you witnessed yourself).

J should arrange a meeting with the manager, and explain that S's behaviour is unacceptable in the workplace, and that if the manager would ever like to discuss J's decision making process in private, that would be fine, but it's inappropriate for a colleague to question her like that in front of others. J could offer to mentor S if S is asking about her decisions as a learning opportunity from someone more experienced and qualified.

She should not produce the notebook at this stage, but explain to the manger that S's actions are the definition of bullying. Note the time and date of that meeting in the notebook too.

If the manager doesn't act on that, then next step is presenting HR with a detailed letter outlining all the incidents logged. Keep the notebook safe.

Apiarist

susieball wrote: »

...I told her I don't have much faith in HR....

It is a part of the correct process. If your friend is forced to quit her job or become too stressed to work effectively, or gets fired -- she will need a record that she had involved the HR and voiced her concerns.

susieball

Thanks for comments. I see where going to HR could be useful. It's just that this stuff never really gets tackled. Everybody runs from it. About 7/8 years ago, I experienced bullying in another job. No mater what I did, and no matter how irrational the bully's behaviour was, she got away with it - she was junior too. About 4 years after I left, I met a doctor on rotation with us in my new job for 6 months. His last job had been with the junior nursing staff that had bullied me several years earlier. The doctor said his 6 months in that rotation was dreadful, she tried to discredit him, stated he put down the wrong doses of medication, would add zeros to medications in his notes, would say that patients made complaints about him, and then when asked for details of the patient, wouldn't have them, and files would go missing from his office on a regular basis, she would then contact the Consultant and say he had lost them. Still doing her stuff 4 years after complaints!!

Jim2007

susieball wrote: »

Thanks for replies. I told her I don't have much faith in HR, but maybe it's worth a try. I don't agree with staying out of it - too much bullying and no one says anything. I'm not going to deliberately stir the pot, but if asked, will say what I have witnessed. All this stuff is so prevalent.

Part of being senior and being in charge is about having to deal with such crappy situations. Saying you can't deal with such people, may have long term consequences for your friend if she has expectations of promotion and she may not thank you for getting involved in the long run.

susieball

My senior colleague has no aspirations for promotion. 3 years from retirement and happy with where she is. She asked me would I speak out about witnessing the incidents, and I said I would.

Thoie

susieball wrote: »

My senior colleague has no aspirations for promotion. 3 years from retirement and happy with where she is. She asked me would I speak out about witnessing the incidents, and I said I would.

This is why you need your own notebook, for the stuff you witness directly. It's too easy to get confused between stuff you've seen, and things J told you about afterwards. You need to be 100% sure of your facts to be helpful. If you slip up and mention an incident that someone can prove you weren't present for, it makes the rest of your information suspect, and neither of you will be taken seriously.

I know the manager is S's friend, but that has to be the first port of call for J. If you have a regular 1:1 with your manager as well, you could mention there that you're not happy with the way colleagues are speaking to each other. When you're going to HR, it looks bad if the topic hasn't been broached with the manager first (unless she's the bully).

Philster

susieball wrote: »

Hi! My colleague, J, who is a senior nurse is being picked over on a daily basis by a junior nurse, who is qualified only 2 years. My colleague, and friend, has been qualified for 20 years. The junior colleague is only in the job 2 years. My friend/colleague, J, is there a year. The junior colleague has made it clear she has aspirations for management. I and my colleague/friend, J, have no such aspirations. J is far more qualified academically than the junior colleague/nurse, but doesn't really say much about it.

What is happening, and what I have witnessed is, that every time my colleague, J, is in charge when the manager is not there, every decision she makes is criticised by Junior colleague, S, in front of others, although all the decisions that J, my colleague/friend makes are good, well-thought out decisions. Junior colleague S, has even begun mocking J - last time, saying she was always panicking, and getting up in the middle of the office floor with a doctor looking on, imitating a trembling person. My senior colleague/friend, J, isn't a panicked at all, but just very thorough. J, my senior colleague stood up to S, and told her that was enough and not to treat her like that in front of anyone else again, but the just on Monday, J asked the junior colleague if something was still happening in regards to a patient, as she hadn't been there on Friday for the doctor's Ward Round. In the middle of the corridor, looking no patients were around, she berated my senior colleague, J, for asking her things that she should already know. My colleague J said how could she know them as she wasn't in on the Friday, and it hadn't been handed over on Monday morning. Then she started shouting and stating my colleague, J, was always coming to her and asking her things, and that J, was the senior colleague nurse and should initiate things herself. J, my senior colleague, then stated to S, that whenever she initiated anything, S criticised her that it was wrong, and anyway, she wasn't in on Friday and could not possibly know what the doctor had advised, that it would take too long to read the notes, as the patient was looking for an answer straight away. J then challenged S about always criticising her and mocking her. S started shouting and coming closer to J stating - where are the examples, where are the examples, as J started to mention them. Then J just said that S should talk to the manager if she had any issues with her work. At this point the Manager poked her head out of her office - she had heard the whole thing. S probably knew the manager was there and didn't care. S and the manager are great friends. My friend/colleague is really upset and doesn't want to go back to work next Friday. My friend/colleague stayed the remainder of the day and tried to be professional and get the work done. Any suggestions on how to handle this?

As a nurse who went through a bullying issue some years ago, I would agree with other posts in documenting everything you have witnessed factually.


Also is J in a union? If so, perhaps she could contact them for advice as well. I was reluctant to as I don't have much faith in unions but actually I got great advice on how to approach and word things in meetings with management/ HR. I don't have much knowledge of laws etc. but being told about Dignity in the Workplace went along way to getting my bully dealt with. My experience is generally management/ HR don't want to know about these things but that scenario above is unacceptable and needs to be dealt with.

Miike

Your colleague needs to inform the CNM II of the unit of whats occurring and subsequently follow it up with a referral to OH if she's feeling she can't attend work as a result of this. If this is a HSE facility there is a clear as day procedure outlined in the Dignity at Work Policy and Procedure available on the intranet which your colleague should review in terms what she can do / is expected of her.

tdf7187

Bullying of seniors by juniors is an underexamined issue, particularly in public service.

In some cases the junior person is taking the p.iss and when the senior asks the junior to do his/her job properly, the junior recruits his/her mates in the workplace to gang up on the senior person.