Hse tradesmen rates

BDI

Hi, I was applying for a maintenance tradesman position with the HSE last week when I seen at the end that they don’t pay the union rates for this position.

Which you can tell my horror after filling out an online hse application form which isn’t the most fun thing to do.

Are they exempt from the union rates of roughly 26 euro an hour for a qualified tradesman.

Fann Linn

BDI wrote: »

Hi, I was applying for a maintenance tradesman position with the HSE last week when I seen at the end that they don’t pay the union rates for this position.

Which you can tell my horror after filling out an online hse application form which isn’t the most fun thing to do.

Are they exempt from the union rates of roughly 26 euro an hour for a qualified tradesman.

It's probably similar to other aspects of the PS/CS were new entrants are coming in on lesser t&cs than their counterparts who are already there.

BDI

But the rates are negotiated every tear or so?

Fann Linn

BDI wrote: »

But the rates are negotiated every tear or so?

Yes. But some people are starting off on different steps on the ladder!

beauf

Generally PS/CS jobs start at lower stay than private sector. The trade off being better job security and working conditions. Money increases over time you should check the increments etc.

BDI

BDI wrote: »

Hi, I was applying for a maintenance tradesman position with the HSE last week when I seen at the end that they don’t pay the union rates for this position.

Which you can tell my horror after filling out an online hse application form which isn’t the most fun thing to do.

Are they exempt from the union rates of roughly 26 euro an hour for a qualified tradesman.[/QU

Have family in the technical managerial side of the HSE they could be paying peanuts and still get hundreds of applicants for a trader job, because of the job security, conditions, pension, and all the nixers they can do in the evenings and weekends

BDI

What’s this mean

33-39 thousand. Is that the most I can earn?

BDI

BDI wrote: »

What’s this mean

33-39 thousand. Is that the most I can earn?

Why do you think it would not be? unless you have some extra specialised qualifaction that they are looking for.

https://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/resources/hr-circulars/hr-circular-028-2018-appendix-3-1st-january-2019-consolidated-pay-scales-final.pdf

Still waters

BDI wrote: »

What’s this mean

33-39 thousand. Is that the most I can earn?

Thats a good wage for a tradesman

micks

BDI wrote: »

What’s this mean

33-39 thousand. Is that the most I can earn?

There could be extra included in your "normal" weeks pay
- on call
- regular OT

I applied for role in one of the dublin hospitals years ago - just before the interview they informed me the pay was well short of the standard union rate at the time (despite union membership being required)
I knew someone how subsequently got a job there and the pay earned was approx double what was advertised - this may be an isolated case

micks

Still waters wrote: »

Thats a good wage for a tradesman

its approx 3rd / 4th year apprentice rate excluding travel

Fann Linn

Still waters wrote: »

Thats a good wage for a tradesman

I think he's disappointed that its not the €000000s which the media would have us believe.

BDI

It’s 19 euro an hour at the top end. The union rate is roughly 26 plus overtime travel and on call allowance.

Bus drivers and luas drivers earn more.

How come plumbers don’t have the backing of the public sector union?

gordongekko

BDI wrote: »

Hi, I was applying for a maintenance tradesman position with the HSE last week when I seen at the end that they don’t pay the union rates for this position.

Which you can tell my horror after filling out an online hse application form which isn’t the most fun thing to do.

Are they exempt from the union rates of roughly 26 euro an hour for a qualified tradesman.

Why fill in the form without reading the information first as the pay rates are published in the information pack?

salmocab

Still waters wrote: »

Thats a good wage for a tradesman

No it’s not.

BDI

I am not used to hse job applying, I was told about the job by a friend. I just assumed it was unionized.

I’m actually embarrassed he thinks I’d be willing to work for that. Maybe he didn’t read the pack either.

Fann Linn

BDI wrote: »

I am not used to hse job applying, I was told about the job by a friend. I just assumed it was unionized.

I’m actually embarrassed he thinks I’d be willing to work for that. Maybe he didn’t read the pack either.

Depending on if you've any kids, rent etc you may also qualify for FIS on top. Plus do some nixxers on the week ends.
You'll be grand.

BDI

Fann Linn wrote: »

Depending on if you've any kids, rent etc you may also qualify for FIS on top. Plus do some nixxers on the week ends.
You'll be grand.

Spend 4 years studying, 15 years gaming experience and then apply for fis and dodge the taxman for nixers?

I think I’ll just stick to doing what I’m doing.

gordongekko

BDI wrote: »

I am not used to hse job applying, I was told about the job by a friend. I just assumed it was unionized.

I’m actually embarrassed he thinks I’d be willing to work for that. Maybe he didn’t read the pack either.

Hey bdi there a job going as a tradesman here. Why don't you check it out.

I can't believe he'd think I'd work for that money

BDI

BDI wrote: »

Spend 4 years studying, 15 years gaming experience and then apply for fis and dodge the taxman for nixers?

I think I’ll just stick to doing what I’m doing.

If it so awful why do they get dozens of applicants for trade jobs, why are the jobs sought after?

El Tarangu

salmocab wrote: »

Still waters wrote: »

Thats a good wage for a tradesman

No it’s not.

It'll look better the next time there is a downturn in the construction sector when tradesmen are being laid off left and right, whereas those working for the HSE will be sitting pretty in their secure, pensionable jobs.

salmocab

El Tarangu wrote: »

It'll look better the next time there is a downturn in the construction sector when tradesmen are being laid off left and right, whereas those working for the HSE will be sitting pretty in their secure, pensionable jobs.

Well yes it’s better than the dole but it’s still not good money for a tradesman. I’m not arguing anything else I know exactly why state jobs pay less and good luck to the people who have them.

BDI

So could I negotiate between the 33-39 or do I have to start on 33 and go up a euro an hour each year until I get to 39k

blindsider

You would probably start on 33 and your salary would go up each year.

I'm sure you could earn more in the private sector, especially if you were self employed.

Advantages of a HSE job:

- The Pension. Ask someone qualified, how much it would cost you to guarantee the HSE pension - it's a small fortune!

- Job security - recession? What recession? (I know HSE staff lost money in the crash too, but didn't lose their jobs - I'm NOT HSE-bashing!)

- Financial stability - do you have a mortgage? Will you need a car loan? Who do you think the bank will want to lend money to?

- Job prospects - you might get promoted to senior plumber/supervisor etc

- Do they provide the tools you'll need?

A State job is not for everyone, but if job-security and pension are on your list.....

Still waters

micks wrote: »

its approx 3rd / 4th year apprentice rate excluding travel

salmocab wrote: »

No it’s not.

El Tarangu wrote: »

It'll look better the next time there is a downturn in the construction sector when tradesmen are being laid off left and right, whereas those working for the HSE will be sitting pretty in their secure, pensionable jobs.

My point exactly is I'd take it any day over wet days, money withheld, breakdowns, tool replacement, public liability insurance, accountant fees, missing work due to sickness, no social welfare safety net, no pension/health insurance when things go tits up, trying to price against eastern europeans living 8 to a house or competing with jim on the dole doing it for half the price.

Come the next downturn which will come as sure as spring follows winter and you'll have lads fighting over a 26 euro an hour job in the HSE. I'd rather make 500 into my hand every week in the month than 800 every second week in the month, which i have plenty experience of.
I know plenty lads that will tell me they're making 250 a day, in reality at the end of the year after everything is paid and days missed from work due to reasons mentioned above they'd be lucky to have a very basic wage, its not all boom time all the time
.

MaryKon

I don't know much about HSE, but a good few government jobs only advertise the BASIC salary. Allowances and overtime will make a difference, quite a big one. Have you tried talking to someone who works on one of those contracts? You might learn some things that are not available on the website.

BDI

Still waters wrote: »

My point exactly is I'd take it any day over wet days, money withheld, breakdowns, tool replacement, public liability insurance, accountant fees, missing work due to sickness, no social welfare safety net, no pension/health insurance when things go tits up, trying to price against eastern europeans living 8 to a house or competing with jim on the dole doing it for half the price.

Come the next downturn which will come as sure as spring follows winter and you'll have lads fighting over a 26 euro an hour job in the HSE. I'd rather make 500 into my hand every week in the month than 800 every second week in the month, which i have plenty experience of.
I know plenty lads that will tell me they're making 250 a day, in reality at the end of the year after everything is paid and days missed from work due to reasons mentioned above they'd be lucky to have a very basic wage, its not all boom time all the time
.

Yeah but if the difference is 10-15k a year and you get 3 years work out of every 4 , arnt you just sitting in the government job the 4th year catching up to me with a grin on your face catching up to what I earned last year. While I’m sat at home with that money already made.

I can understand 5 grand but 10-15grand is fairly substantial hit to take. I have a fairly reliable job it just lacks the sick pay and pension. How much is the pension really worth?

salmocab

Still waters wrote: »

My point exactly is I'd take it any day over wet days, money withheld, breakdowns, tool replacement, public liability insurance, accountant fees, missing work due to sickness, no social welfare safety net, no pension/health insurance when things go tits up, trying to price against eastern europeans living 8 to a house or competing with jim on the dole doing it for half the price.

Come the next downturn which will come as sure as spring follows winter and you'll have lads fighting over a 26 euro an hour job in the HSE. I'd rather make 500 into my hand every week in the month than 800 every second week in the month, which i have plenty experience of.
I know plenty lads that will tell me they're making 250 a day, in reality at the end of the year after everything is paid and days missed from work due to reasons mentioned above they'd be lucky to have a very basic wage, its not all boom time all the time
.

That’s all based on self employment, the vast majority of tradesmen especially plumbers/pipe fitters/electricians are employed and Don’t have those constant worries. 33-39k is not good money for these people. Lots would be happy with it and good luck to them but none of the things you said make it good money.

ahnowbrowncow

BDI wrote: »

15 years gaming experience

Sh*t, I've been leaving that off my CV.

BDI

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

Pension isn't anywhere near as attractive as it once was. It's now based on average career salary. As a new entrant you get half of your career average as your pension, based on full 40 years service.

If you have 15 years experience I assume you're at least 35. Assume you work in the HSE until you're 65, 30 years with no breaks in service. You'll be entitled to 30/40 of your pension. Your pension will then be 37.5% of your career average.
Say your average career salary in HSE is €39k, based on your 30 years service you'll be entitled to a massive e €14,625 yearly pension, you'll also get a lump sum.

The non contributory pension is €12,324 so for your 30 years service you get a very nice €2,301 extra per annum.

Gold plated indeed.

Jaysis. I’m not even going to pick up the phone if they ring me.

beauf

All that glitters is not gold.

Still waters

salmocab wrote: »

That’s all based on self employment, the vast majority of tradesmen especially plumbers/pipe fitters/electricians are employed and Don’t have those constant worries. 33-39k is not good money for these people. Lots would be happy with it and good luck to them but none of the things you said make it good money.

That's true, i was going off my own experience, if i was offered a job by a builder/hse or council now for good steady money I'd find it hard to turn down, bad weather and bad luck this year has left me thinking theres easier ways to make a living

X111111111111

Still waters wrote: »

Thats a good wage for a tradesman

In Africa?

ahnowbrowncow

BDI wrote: »

Jaysis. I’m not even going to pick up the phone if they ring me.

I've deleted my post as I had errors in it. Based on the above example you'd receive a pension of about €18,500 and a lump sum of €43,000. Still not much better.

BDI

Well 43000 lump sum now as well and and 80 quid a week on top of the welfare pension isn’t bad for an aul lad in fairness.

Still waters

X111111111111 wrote: »

In Africa?

I suppose I'm basing my points on what i see locally, plus i also forget that boards is dublin centric which is understandable, i know tradesmen around here getting beat on pricing at 30 euro an hour, i also know guys travelling an hour for 25 an hour all self employed in that light id be happy enough with a government job at 26 an hour

BDI

Still waters wrote: »

I suppose I'm basing my points on what i see locally, plus i also forget that boards is dublin centric which is understandable, i know tradesmen around here getting beat on pricing at 30 euro an hour, i also know guys travelling an hour for 25 an hour all self employed in that light id be happy enough with a government job at 26 an hour

It’s not 26 it’s 19 at the top end. Start is about 16.

ahnowbrowncow

BDI wrote: »

Well 43000 lump sum now as well and and 80 quid a week on top of the welfare pension isn’t bad for an aul lad in fairness.

Yeah it's not too bad but currently you'd be paying about €2,240 of your €39k towards your pension.

So you've contributed €69k of that yourself, tax free. At compound interest rate of 3% over 30 years that would be €114k

salmocab

Still waters wrote: »

That's true, i was going off my own experience, if i was offered a job by a builder/hse or council now for good steady money I'd find it hard to turn down, bad weather and bad luck this year has left me thinking theres easier ways to make a living

Lots of tradesmen don’t work on site, I work in facilities for a lot more money than that and have an office, desk, proper pension, sick benefit good holidays and hours.
There is certainly a pay off for taking a civil service job in the long run but it’s doing similar work to me for a lot less money.

beauf

In CS/PS a lot depends on promotion, if you end up in a place thats top heavy or a freeze in promotions, you could be stuck on the same grade/salary for too long. Which has an impact on pension.

That works slightly differently in the Private sector. Especially in trades, where age becomes an issue earlier.

Still waters

BDI wrote: »

It’s not 26 it’s 19 at the top end. Start is about 16.

Apologies, i misread your post, 16b o 19 is basic but they probably get plenty applications simply for job security etc.

BDI

Still waters wrote: »

Apologies, i misread your post, 16b o 19 is basic but they probably get plenty applications simply for job security etc.

I don’t think I’ve ever heard anybody say “I’ll work for 400 euro less a week to make sure my boss never fired me. Maybe if you were earning millions but each to their own I suppose.

Still waters

BDI wrote: »

I don’t think I’ve ever heard anybody say “I’ll work for 400 euro less a week to make sure my boss never fired me. Maybe if you were earning millions but each to their own I suppose.

I never said anything about working for 400 less a week, i wss speaking from my own viewpoint of being self employed, fair fcuks to you for getting a good job and unionised, I'm just saying not everyone is in that position and would gladly take a handy maintenance job for less money if their circumstances allowed, i know i would

BDI

I’m not trying to be funny or offend I just think every union in the private sector is in the papers every year but the maintenance staff get forgotten.

salmocab

BDI wrote: »

I’m not trying to be funny or offend I just think every union in the private sector is in the papers every year but the maintenance staff get forgotten.

They’re not forgotten just on similar scales to other public sector workers. It’s an understood pay off in terms of security and pension.

PCX

Is there a promotion pathway tradesmen can follow in the hse?

I take it the 39k pa max assumes you never progress and stay bottom rung of the ladder right up to retirement. It also assumes no allowances or overtime which is unlikely I would think.

What are the salary of the foremen and managers etc.?

If they are better I'd say a lot of the demand for the jobs comes from people who realise that if you have the ambition to progress you won't be too long before moving to a better salary scale.