How to walk?

antiskeptic

The root of our problem as both unbelievers and then believers is, it seems to me, self.

Self sufficiency (the first sin) manifests to us as pride. Deriving from pride, selfishness it all its forms: anger, lust, greed, laziness, etc. The resulting sin reaps rewards for ourselves and those we sin against.

Those rewards (whether our own or those we visit on others) roll on down to the people involved, us and others. Anxiety, depression, addiction, sickness of all sorts, loneliness, etc. They also roll down to our equally groaning surroundings: animal, vegetable, mineral.

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The solution for a believer is seemingly simple: to turn to and rely upon God. Paul, writing from the squalor and inhumanity of a jail cell in Rome wrote: "for I have learned the secret of contentment in every situation. When I walk with God".

But turning to and relying in another is precisely the opposite tendency to the one intrinsic to the first sin we were infected with. Namely, self sufficiency.

In this thread I though to discuss the inherent dliemma. Practically speaking, how do we resolve the pain, discomfort, knowledge attaching to the fact that we are 'still in the flesh' and as a result, still run to self sufficiency.


It's the same dilemma faced by believer and unbeliever. Self sufficiency, per definition, doesn't need God. The unbeliever has to be, and hopefully will be, taught self sufficiency doesn't work. But believers know that too. And they have trouble applying what they know


How to put to death the deeds of the flesh?. How to manage God not dancing to our prayer-request tune? How to decide how much rests on our shoulders (for rest something does) and how much and what precisely is meant to rest on His shoulders.

Do you recognise the problem and the obstacles? What measures to you take?What works for you? What is the right balance for what belongs to your plate and what belongs to God?

10fathoms

I ignore all of the above and crack on with life how I see fit.

ChrisJ84

antiskeptic wrote: »

The root of our problem as both unbelievers and then believers is, it seems to me, self.

Self sufficiency (the first sin) manifests to us as pride. Deriving from pride, selfishness it all its forms: anger, lust, greed, laziness, etc. The resulting sin reaps rewards for ourselves and those we sin against.

Those rewards (whether our own or those we visit on others) roll on down to the people involved, us and others. Anxiety, depression, addiction, sickness of all sorts, loneliness, etc. They also roll down to our equally groaning surroundings: animal, vegetable, mineral.

-

The solution for a believer is seemingly simple: to turn to and rely upon God. Paul, writing from the squalor and inhumanity of a jail cell in Rome wrote: "for I have learned the secret of contentment in every situation. When I walk with God".

But turning to and relying in another is precisely the opposite tendency to the one intrinsic to the first sin we were infected with. Namely, self sufficiency.

In this thread I though to discuss the inherent dliemma. Practically speaking, how do we resolve the pain, discomfort, knowledge attaching to the fact that we are 'still in the flesh' and as a result, still run to self sufficiency.


It's the same dilemma faced by believer and unbeliever. Self sufficiency, per definition, doesn't need God. The unbeliever has to be, and hopefully will be, taught self sufficiency doesn't work. But believers know that too. And they have trouble applying what they know


How to put to death the deeds of the flesh?. How to manage God not dancing to our prayer-request tune? How to decide how much rests on our shoulders (for rest something does) and how much and what precisely is meant to rest on His shoulders.

Do you recognise the problem and the obstacles? What measures to you take?What works for you? What is the right balance for what belongs to your plate and what belongs to God?

John Owen (and the Puritans generally) have a lot of helpful counsel in these matters. The Hole in our Holiness is a really good modern take on similar truths.

Practically I think that realising that what God expects of Christians is faithfulness, not objective flawless perfection, is exceptionally liberating. Perfection is something we aren't capable of, and has already been achieved on our behalf in any case. Equally as Christians we are beloved children of the father and while our holiness is imperfect and often wavering, it is nonetheless real and pleasing to God.

Apiarist

antiskeptic wrote: »

The solution for a believer is seemingly simple: to turn to and rely upon God upon your relatives, friends and the community.

Fixed that for you. Relying solely on God is a form of the same "self-sufficiency" sin you are talking about.

All your other questions can be answered by the same answer I have already given. God is not a prayer fulfillment supermarket. If you want to believe, fine, knock yourself out. But it is the community that is important. May be it is the community of fellow sky fairy believers, I won't judge If you do right by other people and follow good moral principles, you are ok. If you are a bad person who does over 9000 Hail Maries a day, you are not ok. Simples.

antiskeptic

victor8600 wrote: »

Fixed that for you. Relying solely on God is a form of the same "self-sufficiency" sin you are talking about.

Relying on someone else is not self sufficiency. Per definition.

Is relying on air to stay alive self sufficiency? I would have thought holding your breath would be more like self sufficiency.

If you do right by other people and follow good moral principles, you are ok.

Presumably I would have to come to some conclusion as to what constitutes good moral principles. Hard that, given your system has no objective moral principles.

I'll pass. The nature of all gods is that if you follow good moral principles, you'll be alright. The principles vary from god to god, but that overarching principle is the same.

You're suggesting tacking yet another "do good and all will be well"option onto an already long list of gods.

Cabaal

antiskeptic wrote: »

Presumably I would have to come to some conclusion as to what constitutes good moral principles. Hard that, given your system has no objective moral principles.

I'll pass. The nature of all gods is that if you follow good moral principles, you'll be alright. The principles vary from god to god, but that overarching principle is the same..

Thats a rather big claim,
So all gods have good moral principles and you'll be fine when you follow them.

You are very much mistaken on that one I'm afraid. Many gods did not have nice principles.

Anyway, morals change per society and during the ages, accordingly morals of gods change too as they are created by man in our society.

Accordingly what is deemed not moral 500 or even 100 years ago is perfectly moral now because society has decided its moral.