Landlord not paying tax

Finn123

Hi,
I recently found out that my landlord has not been paying tax for over 12 months on the property me and 3 others rent off them. They get 3000 a month from us each month. I saw that they didn't register the property with the PRTB. I also read that landlords that fail to register their properties may impact my ability to apply for a loan in the future. Is this true? I have bank statements showing my monthly dd but If theres no record of my payments with the PRTB will this affect my future loan capability?
Thanks.

Tow

It will make no difference to you, providing your landlord is not over seas.

Finn123

The landlord does live over seas in the UK however we pay directly in to her daughters account who lives in Ireland and has built a small flat built out in the back garden.

duffman13

Finn123 wrote: »

The landlord does live over seas in the UK however we pay directly in to her daughters account who lives in Ireland and has built a small flat built out in the back garden.

The UK thing complicates this. Have you a lease and if so, is the landlord or the landlords daughter on the lease

Also how do you know they aren't paying tax?

niallers1

The tax return for the whole of 2019 does not need to be returned until October 2020. You cannot be 100% sure about your LL tax situation and for the most part it's not your business unless your LL is non resident / based outside the country. If your LL is a non resident then that is a different matter.

Your LL being registered with PRTB also has no bearing on your ability to apply for a loan . All you have to be able to do is to show that you pay rent which will be visible in your bank statement.

Even if the LL is based outside the country she can have her daughter act as her agent.

overkill602

welcome to boards.ie

marieholmfan

duffman13 wrote: »

The UK thing complicates this. Have you a lease and if so, is the landlord or the landlords daughter on the lease

Also how do you know they aren't paying tax?

<SNIP>


After three months are up continue to pay rent but reduce 20% from the total paid.


You should also go to a solicitor.


Revenue always get their money and so far as they are concerned you should have been withholding the tax from the rent from day 1.

Finn123

I checked the PRTB site to see if the property was registered and its not.

niallers1

Her daughter is the LL collection agent so no need to do anything other than to continue paying rent as normal.

The withholding tax is so money isn't being transferred out of the the jurisdiction every month.

As the money is being paid to the LL daughter then as said above you have no further obligation other than to continue paying the FULL rent on time each month.

https://www.taxreturnplus.ie/tax-return-guides/non-resident-landlord-guide-irish-tax-returns/

The key point is that his daughter receives the rent so therefore acts as his agent and is responsible for making the tax return.
In this case you do not have to do anything but continue to pay your rent and on time.

Doop

marieholmfan wrote: »

<SNIP>

After three months are up continue to pay rent but reduce 20% from the total paid.

You should also go to a solicitor.

Revenue always get their money and so far as they are concerned you should have been withholding the tax from the rent from day 1.

Wow thats fairly alarmist....and puts the OP in breach of their lease...which can only be poor advice.

OP it makes no difference to you, we recently got a mortgage after long term renting the only thing the bank looked for was regular monthly outgoings of a set amount each month, helps if they are labelled as rent, but no receipts or confirmation from the landlord was ever sought by the bank. Also they only look at the last 6 months.

Also just because the tenancy is not registered does not mean you are not offered the same protection as other tenants.

sbsquarepants

marieholmfan wrote: »

<SNIP>


After three months are up continue to pay rent but reduce 20% from the total paid.


You should also go to a solicitor.


Revenue always get their money and so far as they are concerned you should have been withholding the tax from the rent from day 1.

Is this a wind up?

Revenue don't give a rats arse about the tenants, there's no rent tax. And the landlords tax affairs are none of the tennants business.

You'd want to be carefull OP. Get all righteous on your landlord and you're likely to find yourself out on your ear.....then what.

Will the fact you stuck it to your landlord for no apparent reason keep you warm under that bridge?

Gumbo

Finn123 wrote: »

I checked the PRTB site to see if the property was registered and its not.

This, in no way means the landlord is not tax compliant.

Graham

OP, relax.

RTB do not keep records of rent paid.

Here's your tax obligations as a tenant according to Revenue (emphasis mine):

Rent paid to Irish collection agent of non-resident landlord
A variety of entities may be nominated to act on behalf of a non-resident landlord in
the collection of rent; for example, an estate agent, a management company, a
solicitor, or someone the non-resident landlord has nominated to act on her/his
behalf. The phrase “collection agent” is used in this Manual to cover anyone subject
to the requirements of section 1034 TCA4

3.1 Tenant
If a tenant is paying rent to an Irish collection agent of a non-resident landlord,
rather than directly to the landlord, the tenant is not obliged or entitled to deduct
income tax from the rent.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/income-tax-capital-gains-tax-corporation-tax/part-45/45-01-04.pdf

niallers1

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Is this a wind up?

Just anti LL and by the looks of old posts. "No LL should even be allowed to break even"
Shoot first ask questions later.

SortingYouOut

My landlord has started cross country running, i'm pretty sure he's not paying tax.

niallers1

SortingYouOut wrote: »

My landlord has started cross country running, i'm pretty sure he's not paying tax.

Mine likes Marmite, no way is she paying tax. She probably doesn't even pay her TV license.

gordongekko

How can anyone get access to someone else's tax returns so that they know that someone isn't paying their tax....... asking for a friend

ELM327

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Is this a wind up?

Revenue don't give a rats arse about the tenants, there's no rent tax. And the landlords tax affairs are none of the tennants business.

You'd want to be carefull OP. Get all righteous on your landlord and you're likely to find yourself out on your ear.....then what.

Will the fact you stuck it to your landlord for no apparent reason keep you warm under that bridge?

If you are paying rent to an overseas landlord the tax liability falls to you and not the landlord and you should withold the tax accordingly

sbsquarepants

ELM327 wrote: »

If you are paying rent to an overseas landlord the tax liability falls to you and not the landlord and you should withold the tax accordingly

Aren't they paying to the daughter who lives in the flat out back though?

Surely any tax liability is hers?

niallers1

marieholmfan wrote: »

This is bad and incorrect advice.

There's always one.
There has been a couple of links showing why the Tennant has no responsibility or right to withhold tax.

If he follows your advice he looks like a fool at best and evicted at worst for not paying the rent due. The LL uses his daughter as an agent. The rent goes to her account so therefore the Tennant has no responsibility with regarding withholding rent.

Graham

marieholmfan wrote: »

This is bad and incorrect advice.

Read 3 and 3.1 from "Taxation of Non-Resident Landlords"

https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/income-tax-capital-gains-tax-corporation-tax/part-45/45-01-04.pdf

What's your source of information?

Heart Break Kid

Revenue always gets their money but they won't be going after you. If you feel so inclined, you can file a good citizens report and they'll decide if its worth going after him.

niallers1

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

Revenue always gets their money but they won't be going after you. If you feel so inclined, you can file a good citizens report and they'll decide if its worth going after him.

I'm sure your LL will thank you .

celtic_oz

you have the right to ask for the PPS number of the landlord in order to claim rental tax relief.

After that let revenue worry about it.


https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/tax_relief_for_tenants.html#la82f5

ELM327

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Aren't they paying to the daughter who lives in the flat out back though?

Surely any tax liability is hers?

Correct, revenue have clearly defined that in instances like the OP (where rent is paid to an agent of the LL who is resident here despite the LL being overseas) that the tax liability is not with the tenant.


Just wanted to clarify that this is not always the case and tenants can be pursued for not witholding correct tax

marieholmfan

ELM327 wrote: »

Just wanted to clarify that this is not always the case and tenants can be pursued for not witholding correct tax

You would want to be clear that an agency relationship exists. Tenants have been made liable for tax owed by overseas landlords even when that rent was paid into an Irish bank account.

ELM327

marieholmfan wrote: »

You would want to be clear that an agency relationship exists. Tenants have been made liable for tax owed by overseas landlords even when that rent was paid into an Irish bank account.

Yes, but when it is paid to an agent of the LL (as in this case) the revenue have clearly defined it.

marieholmfan

marieholmfan wrote: »

<SNIP>


After three months are up continue to pay rent but reduce 20% from the total paid.


You should also go to a solicitor.


Revenue always get their money and so far as they are concerned you should have been withholding the tax from the rent from day 1.

Thanks Graham - Clearly rent should not be withheld from an agent. My mistake.



Are we certain that the daughter is an agent in this case?


I still think that the tenant should contact both PRTB and Revenue but as you point out witholding rent would not be appropriate.

burkey2k0

Finn123 wrote: »

I checked the PRTB site to see if the property was registered and its not.

Just a health warning, I've thought this before but it just turned out that the PRTB website was a complete mess. This was 2 years ago, but the amount of typos and incorrect entries I saw while searching the database gave me no confidence in it. And it turned out the registration I was looking for in the end did in fact exist!

niallers1

burkey2k0 wrote: »

Just a health warning, I've thought this before but it just turned out that the PRTB website was a complete mess. This was 2 years ago, but the amount of typos and incorrect entries I saw while searching the database gave me no confidence in it. And it turned out the registration I was looking for in the end did in fact exist!

This is very true. My apartment is not showing up on the register at the moment but I register every tenancy.
I can see all the details when I log in to the PRTB account but it doesn't always show in their website list. Sometimes it's in the list sometimes it's not.

Gumbo

celtic_oz wrote: »

you have the right to ask for the PPS number of the landlord in order to claim rental tax relief.

After that let revenue worry about it.


https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/tax_relief_for_tenants.html#la82f5

That ended in 2017.