Calculating RTB arrears for 14dayArrearsLetter

Lazyfox

#rtb #14dayarrearsletter #calculating arrears for the RTB

We all know the RTB is fully skewed in favour of the tenants. My impression is it is deliberate policy to stop landlords completing the process.

There is a register of tenant disputes recorded on the RTB which landlords can check to avoid taking on bad tenants. However this list is incomplete because the RTB process is masking the true extent of nonpaying tenants. By hampering landlords it saves the Govt money by keeping bad tenants housed and in the end puts sending them back into the market with no record against against their name to start again with another unsuspecting landlord.

Dealing with the RTB is a far from simple process.
Getting as far as registering a case is really un-intuitive.

You can complete the form online and upload the necessary documents but if you do not complete their difficult to manage process what you have uploaded will be deleted after 3 days with no notification. You can then wait a few weeks later only to discover that the case is “gone” and must be restarted from scratch.

Make sure get as far as a confirmed payment screen or you have failed.
I gave up in despair with the RTB document uploader and emailed the documents in.
You just need to put the RTB case number inthe subject line of the email.
Even when you are successful at getting a case into the RTB system you will get a message in your account marked “case closed”. This oddly means you have succeeded.

Last year 48% of landlord termination notices were deemed invalid mostly because the RTB calculates arrears differently the lease the landlord is using. In spite of the fact the RTB runs the most legalistic process they can. I could find no guide on the RTB site as to how the RTB calculate arrears. This appears to be a deliberate trap to thwart landlords cases and appears to work as follows.

1. After waiting 6 weeks for a hearing the RTB calculate the arrears by their own unpublished formula.
2. They deem the issued 14 day arrears letter invalid.
3. This makes the 28 day termination notice invalid
4. They offer a Hobsons choice to the landlord mediation or start again.
5. Going for mediation it went like this
Write off all the arrears.
Return the deposit to the Tenant.
Hopefully persuading the tenant to leave voluntarily.
If the tenant leaves it is without an adjudication
No record of the case on the RTB system.
Nothing against their name for the next unsuspecting landlord.
6. If not go back to square one and issue a new 14 day letter to start the process again when you will be faced with another 2 months arrears before the fresh hearing.
7. Tenant did not leave so I will update in Feb 2020

How to calculate the arrears.
Regardless of what your lease states.
Only rent arrears count. Ignore deposit arrears if any.
Count the full months in arrears.
Calculate the daily rate by dividing the annual rent by 365/366 leap year
Count the number of nights from the end of the last full month to midnight the day before the arrears letter.
Multiply by the daily rate.
Add the 2.
You now have the total that has accrued.
Subtract what was paid in rent.
You now have yours arrears figure as long as Haps are not involved.
If Haps are involved you have to allow full credit for the next Haps payment.
This is even though you have not received it as the RTB believe a Haps contract supersedes your lease.

Now wonder the big 4 accountancy firms are advising their clients to exit the market.
I have been a landlord for 20 years with a number of properties but a result of this experience I realise it is over and as I get each of my properties back I will be selling out.

Good luck to any remaining landlords and my advice is only deal with Corporates.

Graham

Mod Note

Thead split

Samuel T. Cogley

Thanks for the post it's good to know what's really going on, but what's with the hashtags? :pac:

Lazyfox

Never led a thread before figured the hashtags would help it be found on twitter or google.

Lazyfox

Apparently according to the Journal.ie 48% of these termination letters are ruled invalid so there are twice as many bad tenants as is being reported.

Lazyfox

The Kafkaesque saga continues.
Latest update. Today 6/1/19


I have been awaiting an adjudication report on this case since early
December 2019 no sign of it yet.

The tenant has been in arrears since the 1st month, is making no direct
payments since Aug last year and Haps withdrew their payments since
November because the Tenant is not paying them either.

The Haps letter was produced at the hearing.

As I said in the 1st post he adjudicator advised the RTB were not accepting my arrears letter as
valid.

I issued a new 14 day letter the day of the case and issued a new
termination notice 17 days later.
Still nothing paid by the tenant who has not vacated.

I set about restarting a new case with the new letters and now discover
that a termination letter can not be validly issued until 28 days after
the determination has been issued.

So I must wait for the adjudication.

If because of RTB delays in the first adjudication I do not issue a valid termination
letter before the 8th of Feb 2020 any notice to vacate according to the Irish Residential Tenancies Board
support staff would have to be for 3 months instead if 28 days because the non paying tenant will be in
situ for over 6 months.

This delay will cause me the loss of a further 3 months rent which will I know can never be recovered.

davindub

Just out of interest, why did you issue a rent arrears if expecting a HAP payment?

Have HAP declined or just delayed?

davindub

davindub wrote: »

Just out of interest, why did you issue a rent arrears if expecting a HAP payment?

Have HAP declined or just delayed?

Once the tenant stops paying their portion of the rent to the Local Authority, they in turn cease payment of HAP to the LL. As this is paid in arrears, once the tenant stops paying their part, you know the HAP payment will not come through at the end of the month.

davindub

Dav010 wrote: »

Once the tenant stops paying their portion of the rent to the Local Authority, they in turn cease payment of HAP to the LL. As this is paid in arrears, once the tenant stops paying their part, you know the HAP payment will not come through at the end of the month.

But how did the OP know that the tennant had not paid? The OP is not clear, but from the rent arrears calculation, it looked like a HAP reciept was expected at the end of the month.

Cuddlesworth

You know what comes after the eviction order from the RTB right?

Lazyfox

Correct the first notice you get from Haps as landlord is that the payment is suspended.

Prior to that the tenant was not paying their portion either.

Lazyfox

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

You know what comes after the eviction order from the RTB right?

Have not got that far yet. But I will post all progress.

The_Conductor

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

You know what comes after the eviction order from the RTB right?

1st official appeal?

handlemaster

Agree with OP on bad tenants been passed onto another unsuspecting landlord. I had a tenant I knew she was lying all thr time because her lips were moving. Cost me thousands in the end. The PRTB is pointless body. Better off having a stream lined court system. Deal with the facts quickly , tenant out within the week if not paying, unsocial behaviour etc.

cosybeach

the process is so skewed against LLs it puts HAP, Families and matures tenants at disadvantage when going for what left of affordable accommodation as they are seen as potential defaulters
LLs have had to become more risk adverse and prosecution aware of discriminatory laws

Rules are not good for any new tenants they have helped reduce supply and made the letting process more difficult.

Proof of ability to pay is now my main focus and total exclusion of the above in a profession run business, I have never had to communicate with rtb and i hope i never will.

Cuddlesworth

The_Conductor wrote: »

1st official appeal?

Taking the RTB order and going to a actual court.

Lazyfox

Ok here is the update.

Spent from the 6th of December to 8th of Jan 2020. trying to get a copy of the adjudication from the RTB to no avail.
Case agent is on holidays and everthing is backlogged.

Eventually I figured that as I had no adjudication report and had been informed verbally that the arrears letter was being deemed invalid the first case, it would just be best to cancel the first case so it would no longer be hampering the commencement of the second one.

I sent an email to do that.

A few days later lo and behold I get an interim adjudication upholding my claim in the first case.

Of course it is now useless as the case has been stopped.

So back to square one 7 months latter.

I realised that as a landlord using the RTB is a pointless process.
If I start again I will lose another 6 months rent and probably the house.

The only leverage I had was the gap between the adjudication report being issued and the notification of cancellation of the case being sent to the tenant.

On receipt of the RTB report the unfazed tenants advised they would trash the property and install squatters when they were going otherwise.

I have now bitten the bullet and paid back every cent I ever got from the Tenant and some more just to get them voluntarily move out.
I also had to cancel the RTB case to "clear their good name".

Total loss in thousands at this stage.

Lazyfox

Lessons learned.

The day you hand over the keys as a landlord you are doomed.

Pointless using the RTB it is only a stick to beat landlords with.

If I ever rent again it will only be to tenants that have a credit reputation to protect, preferably a corporate let,
an income of their own to pay the rent and are financially strong enough in their own right to sue if anything goes wrong.

handlemaster

The RTB as has been stated countless times seems to work for the tenant

Cuddlesworth

Lazyfox wrote: »

If I ever rent again it will only be to tenants that have a credit reputation to protect, preferably a corporate let,
an income of their own to pay the rent and are financially strong enough in their own right to sue if anything goes wrong.

Honestly, its surprising to me that anybody who was renting multiple properties had rented to a HAP tenant in the first place. Sounds like this tenant is one of the few who knows the system to a tee and is using it to either bankrupt or bribe landlords. Its probable that your not the first and won't be the last either.

Fol20

Question for you. Can you expense the money you give to the tenant to leave?

Not sure how you could do it but interested to see people’s opinions?

Lazyfox

Never did take Haps before and never will again.

Got great references, salary confirmation and tenant seemed very credible.

References and salary confirmation were all good it appears now were probably forgeries.

Referees were either blinded do gooders who claimed to be genuinely shocked or were very good actors.

Talking to other landlords it seems there are so many desperate renters backed by organisations specifically set up to get them into accommodation that it is impossible to trust anything you hear or read now.

The tenants move in knowing full well they cannot pay the rent.

Lazyfox

I expect it is a legitimate expense and it is receipted.

Lazyfox

It was the cheapest solution given our warped system.

Claw Hammer

It may have been cheaper to get a lawyer to advise in the first place.

Lazyfox

Perhaps but not taking the rent assisted tenant in the first place would have been best.

I see all the big 4 accountancy firms are advising their clients to leave the private tenancies market entirely.

I have seen a huge jump in the numbers of prospective tenants looking to rent advising that their landlords are selling.

After this experience I am selling out as each unit becomes vacant.