Overtaking cars travelling in same direction

2012paddy2012

I clearly saw a cyclist in my mirror and I watched as I indicated ahead of him to show I wanted to pull in .. I slowly pulled towards the kerb watching him I had expected him when he neared me to signal and overtake me but instead he flew up along the inside of me ... on the ( my) left ....
what is the law as regards cyclist over or indeed under taking cars ? Any link to the relevant road traffic regs would be appreciated

Paddy

ted1

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

I clearly saw a cyclist in my mirror and I watched as I indicated ahead of him to show I wanted to pull in .. I slowly pulled towards the kerb watching him I had expected him when he neared me to signal and overtake me but instead he flew up along the inside of me ... on the ( my) left ....
what is the law as regards cyclist over or indeed under taking cars ? Any link to the relevant road traffic regs would be appreciated

Paddy

They are allowed pass on the inside. However common sense and self preservation should kick in and one shouldn’t pass on the inside of a turning car. However one shouldn’t pull in if they see a cyclist and it’s hard to tell whose at fault here. If you were ahead of the cyclist, indicated and slowed/stopped the cyclist may have interpreted this as you allowing him to pass before you complete your turn.

How far behind you was he ? Would letting him pass , have caused you much of a delay ?

2012paddy2012

ted1 wrote: »

They are allowed pass on the inside. However common sense and self preservation should kick in and one shouldn’t pass on the inside of a turning car. However one shouldn’t pull in if they see a cyclist and it’s hard to tell whose at fault here. If you were ahead of the cyclist, indicated and slowed/stopped the cyclist may have interpreted this as you allowing him to pass before you complete your turn.

How far behind you was he ? Would letting him pass , have caused you much of a delay ?

I was actually on a straight road and I wanted to pull in to the kerb to let a person out of the car. I wasn’t turning. I had this cyclist in my rear view mirror and he was some distance behind ... I had thought that , on him seeing my signalling into the left ... in good clear time ... that he would have overtaken me ... safely .. as that’s why I indicated in plenty of time ..

RobertFoster

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2012/si/332/made/en/print

(b) A pedal cyclist may overtake on the left where vehicles to the pedal cyclist’s right are stationary or are moving more slowly than the overtaking pedal cycle, except where the vehicle to be overtaken—

(i) has signalled an intention to turn to the left and there is a reasonable expectation that the vehicle in which the driver has signalled an intention to turn to the left will execute a movement to the left before the cycle overtakes the vehicle,

(ii) is stationary for the purposes of permitting a passenger or passengers to alight or board the vehicle, or

(iii) is stationary for the purposes of loading or unloading.”,

Irish Cycling Legislation thread.

Seth Brundle

How far from the kerb were you?
Logic would suggest that you would have pulled in close to the kerb to let your passenger out but then there'd be no room for the cyclist to pass.

Canis Lupus

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

I clearly saw a cyclist in my mirror and I watched as I indicated ahead of him to show I wanted to pull in .. I slowly pulled towards the kerb watching him I had expected him when he neared me to signal and overtake me but instead he flew up along the inside of me ... on the ( my) left ....
what is the law as regards cyclist over or indeed under taking cars ? Any link to the relevant road traffic regs would be appreciated

Paddy

Not all cyclists people on bikes are smart.

The law states a cyclist can't pass a vehicle on the left if it's indicating left.

The pigeon man

S.I. No. 332/2012 - Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2012. States that

(b) A pedal cyclist may overtake on the left where vehicles to the pedal cyclist’s right are stationary or are moving more slowly than the overtaking pedal cycle, except where the vehicle to be overtaken—

(i) has signalled an intention to turn to the left and there is a reasonable expectation that the vehicle in which the driver has signalled an intention to turn to the left will execute a movement to the left before the cycle overtakes the vehicle,

So in this case the cyclist was in the wrong. They shouldn't have passed on the inside. I cycle myself and I never pass on the inside when a car has signalled to turn. It's an easy way to get cleaned off the bike.

In future I would recommend using your horn to indicate to the cyclist the danger that they had put themselves in.

odyssey06

Double check your indicator working... does seem like a strange move by the cyclist.

2012paddy2012

Seth Brundle wrote: »

How far from the kerb were you?
Logic would suggest that you would have pulled in close to the kerb to let your passenger out but then there'd be no room for the cyclist to pass.

Ya thanks for that I had very clearly indicated in good time that I was pulling in to the kerb ..I had a good view of him in my rear view mirror prior to pulling towards the kerb as I was conscious of his presence there ... as I pulled in to the pavement he came up along my left ... I would have been close to the pavement ok ... he got by ... my query was if the cyclist sees an indication to pull in left in good time and the car manoeuvre in the direction as indicated ... as I was ... what is the legislation regarding the cyclists then ? From reading here I think he is supposed to overtake in these circumstances ... thanks for the replies ...

2012paddy2012

odyssey06 wrote: »

Double check your indicator working... does seem like a strange move by the cyclist.

Indicator works perfectly fine.

donvito99

The cyclist must give way to you.

But why are you overtaking him when you know you're cutting him off?

Seth Brundle

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

Ya thanks for that I had very clearly indicated in good time that I was pulling in to the kerb ..I had a good view of him in my rear view mirror prior to pulling towards the kerb as I was conscious of his presence there ... as I pulled in to the pavement he came up along my left ... I would have been close to the pavement ok ... he got by ... my query was if the cyclist sees an indication to pull in left in good time and the car manoeuvre in the direction as indicated ... as I was ... what is the legislation regarding the cyclists then ? From reading here I think he is supposed to overtake in these circumstances ... thanks for the replies ...

How fast were they cycling?
Or did you pull in just in front of them (it sounds like this!)?

punisher5112

donvito99 wrote: »

The cyclist must give way to you.

But why are you overtaking him when you know you're cutting him off?

They didn't, they were aware of their presence and noticed them coming up on them but still a distance away.... That's what I get from it anyway.

donvito99

punisher5112 wrote: »

They didn't, they were aware of their presence and noticed them coming up on them but still a distance away.... That's what I get from it anyway.

On second reading it does appear that there was no overtake as it were.

magicbastarder

donvito99 wrote: »

But why are you overtaking him when you know you're cutting him off?

at no point did the OP mention being behind the cyclist, unless i've missed something?

ted1

magicbastarder wrote: »

at no point did the OP mention being behind the cyclist, unless i've missed something?

I think it’s the title thats causing confusion

2012paddy2012

Seth Brundle wrote: »

How fast were they cycling?
Or did you pull in just in front of them (it sounds like this!)?

Read it again. Profffer an intelligent reply or ignore perhaps thanks.

Mod note: attack the post not the poster. Personal attacks are not tolerated in this forum. Any questions PM me do not respond in thread.
eeeee

punisher5112

I do see this a lot to be honest especially on junctions where cars have been waiting at reds or coming up to turn and cyclists burst their way up to pass as they are in the middle of turning or trying to.

As a bus driver it's only gotten worse and it's extremely difficult for us to navigate the city.

I've had all sorts and many put themselves at risk.

I give room, I don't overtake if I'm going to be pulling in again, I leave the cyclist all the space in the world but so many take such stupid risks it's actually worrying and puts an extremely big amount of stress on others and me.

If a vehicle is indicating then take heed and stay clear and especially when it's a large vehicle and also be aware of the black spots or blind spots.....

07Lapierre

Regardless of the law... always give a cyclist a thumbs up 👍 when they overtake you.

https://youtu.be/Jwr3FVc1YfU

07Lapierre

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

I was actually on a straight road and I wanted to pull in to the kerb to let a person out of the car. I wasn’t turning. I had this cyclist in my rear view mirror and he was some distance behind ... I had thought that , on him seeing my signalling into the left ... in good clear time ... that he would have overtaken me ... safely .. as that’s why I indicated in plenty of time ..

That's exactly what the cyclist should have done.

I wouldn't even mind if they over took me to pull in as long as it was far enough ahead to give me time to check and move out. Used to boil my piss when I lived in Dublin to have a bus pass me and pull in at a stop 20 meters ahead.

punisher5112 sound like a fella I used to meet near the milltown luas stop who'd happily sit behind you and let you pass the stop before pulling in.

punisher5112

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I wouldn't even mind if they over took me to pull in as long as it was far enough ahead to give me time to check and move out. Used to boil my piss when I lived in Dublin to have a bus pass me and pull in at a stop 20 meters ahead.

punisher5112 sound like a fella I used to meet near the milltown luas stop who'd happily sit behind you and let you pass the stop before pulling in.

Quite possible, I treat people as I would like to be....

I cycle, motorcycle etc so understand all sides in a way you could say.

I hear you on the ones that pass then pull in...

I will do this but what happens is the person wanting off pressed the bell late but I'll indicate and wait for the cyclist to continue. I will wait and let them by without pulling in and pinching to kerb.

I've seen it all and it is bad at times.

work

punisher5112 wrote: »

As a bus driver it's only gotten worse....

I give room, I don't overtake if I'm going to be pulling in again, I leave the cyclist all the space in the world but so many take such stupid risks it's actually worrying and puts an extremely big amount of stress on others and me.

If a vehicle is indicating then take heed and stay clear and especially when it's a large vehicle and also be aware of the black spots or blind spots.....

Firstly thank you for respecting cyclists and making the city better. Unfortunately there are a large number of idiot road users in Ireland. As such a bus respecting cyclists to the level you suggest is VERY rare. Also tere will always be stupid cyclists so we are pretty much stuck with the situation until they are segregated.
Do you cycle? Have you ever sat at the exhaust of a bus, you'd be keen to get the hell out of there. Have you seen how most country and airport busses drive, it's insane and the one thing I can tell you is the stress is pretty high and preventing people cycling!

Kaisr Sose

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

Read it again. Profffer an intelligent reply or ignore perhaps thanks.

No need for that comment. A question was asked. Many cyclists on here have been overtaken by a vehicle only for it to stop or turn left almost immediately. On a cycling forum, its a reasonable and intelligent question to ask.
In this case it seems not the case. But, it happens a lot, and its as wrong as what happened to you.

punisher5112

work wrote: »

Firstly thank you for respecting cyclists and making the city better. Unfortunately there are a large number of idiot road users in Ireland. As such a bus respecting cyclists to the level you suggest is VERY rare. Also tere will always be stupid cyclists so we are pretty much stuck with the situation until they are segregated.
Do you cycle? Have you ever sat at the exhaust of a bus, you'd be keen to get the hell out of there. Have you seen how most country and airport busses drive, it's insane and the one thing I can tell you is the stress is pretty high and preventing people cycling!

Yes I cycle, I see it all to be honest, I do cringe at times what I see from fello drivers but then I struggle to understand the real stupid places cyclists put themselves when up against trucks and buses.

Elderly drivers imo are the worst for close passes.

plodder

odyssey06 wrote: »

Double check your indicator working... does seem like a strange move by the cyclist.

I see it happening all the time, particularly when the cyclist is in a cycle lane on the road, which may give the impression to the cyclist that they have right of way. Have asked about this specific situation before here but never got an answer.

07Lapierre

plodder wrote: »

I see it happening all the time, particularly when the cyclist is in a cycle lane on the road, which may give the impression to the cyclist that they have right of way. Have asked about this specific situation before here but never got an answer.

My understanding is that a cyclist must yield if a car ahead is indicating its intention to turn left.

Mind you, a driver must only turn “if safe to do so”, so it can be interpreted differently depending on your point of view.

Tenzor07

Is this a "cycling" issue or a driving issue?

CramCycle

I'm confused, you were well ahead, indicating but you were not far enough ahead to actually pull in to the kerb before the cyclist got there?
From your post it sounds like the cyclist was 500m back and you just waited for them, if true they probably seen you, wondered why you hadn't pulled over and then thought, must have the indicator on by accident from their previous turn. I would have went around on your right as I'd be worried you could do anything, but for many people, they assess the situation and think, jeez, I have been approaching this car for ages, there indicator is on but they haven't moved despite plenty of time and space to do so, so they probably won't. You didn't do anything wrong but your lack of progression would be concerning if the situation was as described.

2012paddy2012

CramCycle wrote: »

I'm confused, you were well ahead, indicating but you were not far enough ahead to actually pull in to the kerb before the cyclist got there?
From your post it sounds like the cyclist was 500m back and you just waited for them, if true they probably seen you, wondered why you hadn't pulled over and then thought, must have the indicator on by accident from their previous turn. I would have went around on your right as I'd be worried you could do anything, but for many people, they assess the situation and think, jeez, I have been approaching this car for ages, there indicator is on but they haven't moved despite plenty of time and space to do so, so they probably won't. You didn't do anything wrong but your lack of progression would be concerning if the situation was as described.

Interesting thanks

CramCycle

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

Interesting thanks

I am more asking for clarity, how far back was the cyclist when you started indicating? did you have time to pull in? if you did, why didn't you? There are several reasons what happened, may have happened. As a road user, you have to assess each situation depending on the details, of which there are not many. If, when you started indicating, there was a reasonable chance the cyclist would reach you before you had pulled over, then wait. If there was enough time for you to pull in and for them to see that, then they should give way to you (which they would have too, as you would be in the way). The fact that he was able to go up the inside of you before you finished pulling in, suggests he was closer than you thought. He is still a muppet for doing it, because he wouldn't know if you noticed him or not.

spurious

I had one do exactly the same on me yesterday, except I was turning left into a street.

I find it is best to treat all other road users as idiots who can and probably will do the stupidest most dangerous thing in any given situation.

Seth Brundle

CramCycle wrote: »

I am more asking for clarity, how far back was the cyclist when you started indicating? did you have time to pull in? if you did, why didn't you? There are several reasons what happened, may have happened. As a road user, you have to assess each situation depending on the details, of which there are not many. If, when you started indicating, there was a reasonable chance the cyclist would reach you before you had pulled over, then wait. If there was enough time for you to pull in and for them to see that, then they should give way to you (which they would have too, as you would be in the way). The fact that he was able to go up the inside of you before you finished pulling in, suggests he was closer than you thought. He is still a muppet for doing it, because he wouldn't know if you noticed him or not.

I tried asking something similar yesterday and received this: "Read it again. Profffer an intelligent reply or ignore perhaps thanks."
I don't think we're supposed to question the events in this case. :rolleyes:

2012paddy2012

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I tried asking something similar yesterday and received this: "Read it again. Profffer an intelligent reply or ignore perhaps thanks."
I don't think we're supposed to question the events in this case. :rolleyes:

Thanks for all the replies. I was travelling ahead as I say ....I was going drop passenger to a building on the left side of the road ... also ... the cyclist was behind me ... I had clear view in mirror .. I cannot say exactly how far .behind ... . but with sufficient distance to firstly see ... indication ... and car travelling in the direction , as the indicator indicated .... to allow a safe overtake .... my query really was if a cyclist is behind a car , at such a distance ( as this was) and can see the drivers intention is to turn left , by indication and manoeuvre , ahead , what are the rules of the road relating to that specifically... I had expected to see him travel by me on my right but he went on my left ... there was room to pass ... I’m of the view now that he ought to have passed me on the right .. as I had initially thought.

Specifics about distances behind / to the side / how far from kerb , I appreciate ... the general circumstances are as stated... appreciate all replies
Thanks
P

2012paddy2012

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I tried asking something similar yesterday and received this: "Read it again. Profffer an intelligent reply or ignore perhaps thanks."
I don't think we're supposed to question the events in this case. :rolleyes:

Apology if I came across that way. Unintended I assure you. I have my answer now indeed. Thank you

droidus

I had a similar scenario from the other POV a couple of years ago.

Cycling East towards the met office. Busy enough morning. Traffic slow. Car ahead indicating left. Goes past first left turn, continues past second left turn, then is stopped in traffic by red light. No other left turns immediately available. He had been indicating about 20+ seconds at this stage and had made no movement to pull in to the left and was stuck in traffic with about a 1m gap between himself and the kerb. So whilst I would almost always yield or go around cars indicating left this time I figured he'd forgotten he had it on or was planning on taking the next left.

As I go past, the passenger door swings open, just missing me. He beeps at me, and I turn around and ask him what the problem is. He tells me he was indicating, and I shouldn't have passed on his left. I politely reply that id been watching him and he had been indicating for nearly 30 seconds, and that he cant just stop in the middle of the road and let people out of his car without pulling in. He replied that next time he sees me he'll run me over - daughter (maybe even granddaughter) in school uniform in the next seat looking mortified the whole time.

d15ude

I'm both a cyclist and car driver.
I find undertaking extremely dangerous. Surprised it's legal.

magicbastarder

as mentioned, it's not if the car in front has already indicated to turn left.

ted1

d15ude wrote: »

I'm both a cyclist and car driver.
I find undertaking extremely dangerous. Surprised it's legal.

Do you want cyclists to Queue in traffic ?

tomasrojo

I saw someone this morning who had clearly recently been on a bike arguing with a driver who, from the little I heard, had been been in a bus lane moment earlier and I think collided with or gave a fright to a cyclist that had been passing on his inside when he turned left. Another cyclist was telling the first cyclist that he shouldn't have passed on the left, and it didn't matter that the driver had been in the bus lane illegally (or something like that). Nobody seemed to be hurt.

Anyway, it was a funny coincidence that I knew the legal situation because I'd read this thread the night before.

Obviously, I just walked away without saying anything.

CramCycle

d15ude wrote: »

I'm both a cyclist and car driver.
I find undertaking extremely dangerous. Surprised it's legal.

I am confident and fast enough to overtake on the right in most scenarios on my commute. This normally leads to a barage of abuse from drivers who don't realise I am faster and generally better looking than them. Many cyclists are not, most motorists expect to see them overtaking on the left, hence why overtaking on the left is legal, and generally seen as safer, because convention teaches most that this is where they should expect to see cyclists.

All joking aside though, bar in rural areas, do you really think overtaking on the right is safer than the left for a cyclist?

magicbastarder

tbf, i've been in situations where i see a car up in front of me indicating, so i slow down, and the motorist in the car in front sees me so delays their left turn because they're worried i'll cut up the inside, and they slow down, so i slow down because of that, and they do too, and we end up sitting there stationary, aging, wondering how we got ourselves into this beckettian situation.

cjt156

magicbastarder wrote: »

tbf, i've been in situations where i see a car up in front of me indicating, so i slow down, and the motorist in the car in front sees me so delays their left turn because they're worried i'll cut up the inside, and they slow down, so i slow down because of that, and they do too, and we end up sitting there stationary, aging, wondering how we got ourselves into this beckettian situation.

Its the old adage of; Did you ever get yourself into a sh!tty situation by being a nice guy that you could have avoided by being a b@stard?

Not calling for more b@stards on the roads, obvs, but sometimes if you indicate you need to be assertive and commit to the manouvre.

Stark

d15ude wrote: »

I'm both a cyclist and car driver.
I find undertaking extremely dangerous. Surprised it's legal.

Of course overtaking on the right (which I often do as it's safer in quite a few cases) is seen as "weaving".

Can't win.

Vel

magicbastarder wrote: »

tbf, i've been in situations where i see a car up in front of me indicating, so i slow down, and the motorist in the car in front sees me so delays their left turn because they're worried i'll cut up the inside, and they slow down, so i slow down because of that, and they do too, and we end up sitting there stationary, aging, wondering how we got ourselves into this beckettian situation.

I was coming up to the junction at Camden Street and Aungier Street and a car was well ahead trying to turn left with a stream of cyclists coming from behind and passing on through, so I slowed as I came up and gave a wave for them to turn. It all went swimmingly, they turned within a couple of seconds, I went on through, and then got balled out of it by some wagon behind who cycled up alongside me to tell me that I should never do something like that again as the cyclist had right of way and it was dangerous to other cyclists. I sighed, nodded and left her for dust!!