References requested before formal contract

cottonsocks

Hi all,

I've been based in the UK for 9 years and am currently in the process of moving back to Ireland.

After many months of job hunting, I've been offered a position with a company in Dublin.

However, I do have another role I interviewed for today which would be my preference - but the first job issued their offer on Monday (and responded to my request for a higher salary yesterday). I am not convinced about this role for a few reasons - and have not responded today.

Although yes, I do want to delay answering in order to see if today's role will come through, I am concerned about one aspect of the offered position.

The HR department have issued an offer, and have advised that a formal offer will come with the contract, however, they have requested references immediately if I accept and would like these issued and to check them before they will then issue a formal offer and contract.

They have stated that one of the references must be from my current employer.

I haven't spoken to my current employer about leaving yet - nor can I until next week.

Is this standard practice in Ireland to request references after offer but before issuing a) a formal offer or b) a contract? I would also really like to see the contract before accepting.

i appreciate things might be a little different in Ireland to the UK - but it doesn't seem fair the employer can check my references before a contract, potentially putting me in a situation where I have no job (as my current employer will then know I want to leave!)

Thanks in advance.

Silverfish

Yes, normal procedure.
I have never given my current employer as a referee, that would generally be understood by any HR dept.

daheff

really depends on the company. some dont bother with references anymore... some make you jump through hoops. A lot of references are only he worked from x date to y date as this role.

You could always ask for a draft of the contract while they are doing reference checks.

Really though you should only give a reference that you know will be acceptable.

cottonsocks

Hi, unfortunately the procedure outlined at this company is that I have to give a current employer as a reference which makes it very difficult!

ongarboy

cottonsocks wrote: »

Hi, unfortunately the procedure outlined at this company is that I have to give a current employer as a reference which makes it very difficult!

That's just plain ridiculous. Every recruiting employer knows a candidate cannot obtain a reference from a current employer for the very reasons already mentioned. Explain you cannot inform your current boss that you are job seeking but can offer references from the one prior. I'm not sure I would want to work for a company that could put you in a risky position where your current role could be jeopardized like that.

Jim2007

ongarboy wrote: »

That's just plain ridiculous. Every recruiting employer knows a candidate cannot obtain a reference from a current employer for the very reasons already mentioned. Explain you cannot inform your current boss that you are job seeking but can offer references from the one prior. I'm not sure I would want to work for a company that could put you in a risky position where your current role could be jeopardized like that.

I don't know how many jobs you have gone for, but in thirty years working in Ireland, the UK, Germany and Switzerland, every job offer came subject to obtaining a reference from the current employer.

KildareP

Ordinarily it's an offer subject to satisfactory references, i.e. the job is yours unless something alarming comes back in a reference check.

Thus you are safe to begin the process of resigning from your current role which will naturally allow the reference check process to begin.

I suppose you have to see it from the employer's perspective, they're not going to legally bind themselves into a formal contract without ticking all the boxes.

Do you expect something to arise from your current employer that might be cause for concern?

Mrs OBumble

Jim2007 wrote: »

I don't know how many jobs you have gone for, but in thirty years working in Ireland, the UK, Germany and Switzerland, every job offer came subject to obtaining a reference from the current employer.

This is starting to get difficult, because so many places now refuse to give references.

Its especially ironic when companies both refuse to give them for former employees, but insist on getting them from prospective ones.

helimachoptor

KildareP wrote: »

Ordinarily it's an offer subject to satisfactory references, i.e. the job is yours unless something alarming comes back in a reference check.

Thus you are safe to begin the process of resigning from your current role which will naturally allow the reference check process to begin.

I suppose you have to see it from the employer's perspective, they're not going to legally bind themselves into a formal contract without ticking all the boxes.

Do you expect something to arise from your current employer that might be cause for concern?

Never do this.
You hand in your notice when you've a physical contract/docusign.

silent_spark

Having a contract won’t make the position secure for the first while anyway. You could have a signed contract and they could potentially let you go after a few weeks if it’s not working out. I would request a draft contract for now, to review terms.

Masala

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

This is starting to get difficult, because so many places now refuse to give references.

Its especially ironic when companies both refuse to give them for former employees, but insist on getting them from prospective ones.

I would expect that employers would be making calls to these reference and asking the appropriate questions over the phone. The néeD fo4 a written reference to be returned is no longer needed if a verbal referrance is gotten.

daheff

Masala wrote: »

I would expect that employers would be making calls to these reference and asking the appropriate questions over the phone. The néeD fo4 a written reference to be returned is no longer needed if a verbal referrance is gotten.

May not be a need for a written reference, but that’s beside the point. A lot of employers are not saying anything other than employee worked from x to y date in this position.
In fact I have heard that google don’t bother with references anymore because they feel their interview process is sufficiently in-depth to get a good understanding of the candidate

KildareP

helimachoptor wrote: »

Never do this.
You hand in your notice when you've a physical contract/docusign.

That physical contract will have a stipulation in it that it is subject to a satisfactory reference. No reference = no valid contract.

helimachoptor

KildareP wrote: »

That physical contract will have a stipulation in it that it is subject to a satisfactory reference. No reference = no valid contract.

Unless stuff has drastically changed since my last job offer you'll get a verbal or email job offer and thats subject to references.
Once they check out you get a physical contract.

the_syco

KildareP wrote: »

Thus you are safe to begin the process of resigning from your current role which will naturally allow the reference check process to begin.

helimachoptor wrote: »

Never do this.
You hand in your notice when you've a physical contract/docusign.

KildareP wrote: »

That physical contract will have a stipulation in it that it is subject to a satisfactory reference. No reference = no valid contract.

But you don't hand in your notice before you get the contract. Heck, they could give the OP a flaky reference, and the OP would be jobless within a few weeks by their own hand!

helimachoptor

the_syco wrote: »

But you don't hand in your notice before you get the contract. Heck, they could give the OP a flaky reference, and the OP would be jobless within a few weeks by their own hand!

yeah there's been enough horror stories on here about people handing in their notice before getting a physical contract (and in fairness a few after), give your references, wait for them to check out and then get the contract, hand in notice.

shesty

Yes I have been there.

I told the company offering the job that I would give two of the three references requested from two previous companies and they could check them.

I then told them that before I gave them the current reference, i needed the weekend to consider my decision (and they needed to give me more detail on my leave entitlements/pay etc. to help me do this) as I was taking a leap from a longer term contract to a very short term one, and basically hoping that I would get something more permanent with them during the short term one, which was a big decision.I said the minute I asked for a reference, I was signalling my intent to leave, and even though I was on a longer contract, it was still a fixed term contract and it would put me in a bit of a dodgy position (I felt) if their job offer didn't come through.

So I took a weekend to think it over, contact my current employer and explain the situation, then on the Tuesday, I passed on my current employer's details for references.

All of this was done by phone, nothing in writing.It is not a big ask for them.


It's tricky to manage.But don't be afraid to be up front on what you are thinking.And to ask for some extra time for consideration if needed.