Not another high vis post 😁😁

5CHULZY

After taking up cycling about 3 months ago and cycling into work (10km city centre to airport) I havent had any incidents until the last few days during the bad weather. Now I have 2 lights on front, and 1 on rear and 1 on rear helmet, I also wear a high vis jacket and have a high vis tucked in the compartment on the outside of my bag. But still drivers seem to he inconsiderate.

I'm thinking of getting cameras front and rear and one on the helmet, and with the new legislation I'm looking into getting something like this but as a bag cover. Hopefully it might act as a detterent and drivers might take caution when over taking (wishful thinking). But a lot of this will come down to convictions being made by the guards and points and fines being handed out to dangerous drivers.

Even during the bad weather recently, I have enjoyed riding the bike into work, especially passing the same car 3 times at lights after he has overtaking me in a rush to get in front. Just give a little smile as I kept passing his window ðŸ˜ðŸ˜

I used the car one day and it took me over an hour to get home form work in the morning(work night shifts) but only takes 25 mins on the bike. If only the infrastructure was there to encourage more to cycle or use public transport, instead of sitting in traffic in the car, but that's another story

Breezer

Let us know how it goes please.

I’d be in two minds about that myself. On the one hand, it might make the person who has an issue with cyclists and is deliberately close passing you reconsider. On the other, it might act as a red rag to a bull for those people, particularly if they feel they’re in the right, so they’ve nothing to fear from a recording (“you were in the middle of the road” etc.)

And then you have the majority of people, who either don’t see you despite all the lights (i.e. they aren’t looking), or who genuinely believe they are giving you plenty of room, even when they aren’t. I suspect it will make no difference to either of these groups.

So you’ll calm some people down, enrage others, and have no effect on most, I reckon: net neutral effect. Then on top of all that, it’s a pain in the behind cycling in a building jacket, or attaching extra bits to backpacks. If it works for you that’s fine, but I wouldn’t be up for it. I do wear high viz, but personally prefer to incorporate it into what I’m wearing anyway.

Hopefully I’m wrong and you find it helpful. Let us know!

5CHULZY

Breezer wrote: »

Let us know how it goes please.

I’d be in two minds about that myself. On the one hand, it might make the person who has an issue with cyclists and is deliberately close passing you reconsider. On the other, it might act as a red rag to a bull for those people, particularly if they feel they’re in the right, so they’ve nothing to fear from a recording (“you were in the middle of the road” etc.)

And then you have the majority of people, who either don’t see you despite all the lights (i.e. they aren’t looking), or who genuinely believe they are giving you plenty of room, even when they aren’t. I suspect it will make no difference to either of these groups.

So you’ll calm some people down, enrage others, and have no effect on most, I reckon: net neutral effect. Then on top of all that, it’s a pain in the behind cycling in a building jacket, or attaching extra bits to backpacks. If it works for you that’s fine, but I wouldn’t be up for it. I do wear high viz, but personally prefer to incorporate it into what I’m wearing anyway.

Hopefully I’m wrong and you find it helpful. Let us know!

Sorry should of made it more clearer, it will be a high vis bag cover like this with the wording printed on it. I've been meaning to get one for a while but have just stuffed a high vis vest in the netting on my bag for the time being .

Understand your views on it, but like I said it all comes down to dangerous drivers actually getting punished first of all. Overwise any warning of being recorded is pointless. All that cyclists can do is provide evidence and then it's down to the guards to take it further.

Seth Brundle

Too much writing on the first attachment - cars might closely approach the cyclist simply to read it - if it was only the image of the camera then that should be sufficient to make a driver think.

5CHULZY

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Too much writing on the first attachment - cars might closely approach the cyclist simply to read it - if it was only the image of the camera then that should be sufficient to make a driver think.

Did think that. That was just an idea of what I was thinking.

Maybe have 'If you can read this you are too close' 🀔

Theres a tshirt printers round the corner from me so will go round and talk to them to see what can be done

07Lapierre

I suspect the issue is not visiblity. This issue is motorists see you and just don’t give a ****! Or they see you and don’t realize how their actions are dangerous.

There’s also the fact that a lot of drivers are driving while distracted by phones, so they are oblivious to your presence!

Kaisr Sose

Not a bad idea if you had a camera symbol and CCTV. Visible deterents and signs would only work for the minority. A lot of motorist find obeying other signals and signs very difficult.

Plus a lot of Garda dont really care about this sort of thing. Ideally if there was a platform to upload video to them it would take some of the archaic procedures of reporting these out of the process for both reporter and Garda. I was told by one Garda there was a platform but I have yet to find it.

Wishbone Ash

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Too much writing on the first attachment.....

+1

Way too much writing. 99% of drivers won't notice or read it and those that do, may just get distracted.

ted1

What route are you taking ? I have a return trip to the airport via town each day and find the stretch between town and the airport isn’t to bad.

cletus

07Lapierre wrote: »

Or they see you and don’t realize how their actions are dangerous.

I personally think that the vast majority of close or dangerous passes could be attributed to the above.
I'd say if you stopped drivers who close passed and asked them, they'd either be bewildered, or they'd say "sure I was never going to hit him"

I think a lot of the time drivers pass cyclists the way they'd pass a traffic cone or any other obstruction, most figuring that close doesn't make any difference as long as you don't hit it

magicbastarder

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Plus a lot of Garda dont really care about this sort of thing.

if you were to send footage to insurance companies, would they adopt a 'no harm, no foul' approach? i.e. if you're not making a claim, go away?

though the threat of that may make company owners, whose drivers have been caught misbehaving on camera, take notice.

Seth Brundle

cletus wrote: »

I personally think that the vast majority of close or dangerous passes could be attributed to the above.
I'd say if you stopped drivers who close passed and asked them, they'd either be bewildered, or they'd say "sure I was never going to hit him"

I think a lot of the time drivers pass cyclists the way they'd pass a traffic cone or any other obstruction, most figuring that close doesn't make any difference as long as you don't hit it

...but they wouldn't pass another car with the same amount of space.

07Lapierre

cletus wrote: »

I personally think that the vast majority of close or dangerous passes could be attributed to the above.
I'd say if you stopped drivers who close passed and asked them, they'd either be bewildered, or they'd say "sure I was never going to hit him"

I think a lot of the time drivers pass cyclists the way they'd pass a traffic cone or any other obstruction, most figuring that close doesn't make any difference as long as you don't hit it

Yep! I think it’s ignorance on their part. They simply don’t realize how dangerous /intimidating a close pass is.

07Lapierre

Seth Brundle wrote: »

...but they wouldn't pass another car with the same amount of space.

They do! I work in vehicle leasing and we get a lot of broken driver door mirrors due to close passes (at speed)

punisher5112

Get a reflective jacket with G-Unit on it and the same reflective writing as the police....

AndrewJRenko

5CHULZY wrote: »

Did think that. That was just an idea of what I was thinking.

Maybe have 'If you can read this you are too close' ��

Theres a tshirt printers round the corner from me so will go round and talk to them to see what can be done

Or one that says "Put Your Fu%^ing Phone Down"

tomasrojo

Ian Walker's close-pass experiment seems relevant:

Overall, the researchers found that variations in the outfits had virtually no effect on how close motorists got as they passed the cyclist. But there was a key exception: Drivers kept a significantly wider—and thus safer—distance from the bicyclist when he was wearing the “police” vest.

“It is striking that driver behavior to POLICE was so different to POLITE given the key word differed by just one letter,” the researchers write. “Not only was passing much closer on average with POLITE, but subjectively the experimenter reported feeling much more at risk, and encountered overt acts of aggression from several drivers, when wearing POLITE.”

https://www.psychologicalscience.org/uncategorized/bike-visibility-does-little-to-change-drivers-dangerous-overtaking.html

One vest prominently displayed a warning that the rider was video-recording their journey, but that was also the POLICE one.

I think that, essentially, close passes are the work of people who are, deep down, total dicks, and the most likely reaction from a total dick to that jacket is even more dickish behaviour.

Unless you're also going to pretend you're a cop, which I don't recommend.

5CHULZY

ted1 wrote: »

What route are you taking ? I have a return trip to the airport via town each day and find the stretch between town and the airport isn’t to bad.

Travel from east wall along Richmond road and then up grace park towards Whitehall. Then head along the swords road past the omni. It's not too bad. One or two junctions that I've had problems. I'm confident enough to use the roads and try to expect the unexpected but you just never know. I had a young girl cut across into the lay by for whitehall church this morning without indicating and then enter back into the bus lane and down to the lights. Didn't even acknowledge me when I pulled up next to her.

07Lapierre

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Or one that says "Put Your Fu%^ing Phone Down"

I was stopped at light and a guy driving a bus stopped beside me. He had his phone stuck to the windscreen (in the portrait position) and he was watching a movie! ( think it was one of the Terminator movies)

jon1981

07Lapierre wrote: »

I suspect the issue is not visiblity. This issue is motorists see you and just don’t give a ****! Or they see you and don’t realize how their actions are dangerous!

This^

I'm lit up like a vegas casino, it makes damn all difference. I've front and rear camera footage that proves 1) ignorance of their actions and 2) not one f**k being given.


Example

https://youtu.be/AOR7KIwYoZw

punisher5112

jon1981 wrote: »

This^

I'm lit up like a vegas casino, it makes damn all difference. I've front and rear camera footage that proves 1) ignorance of their actions and 2) not one f**k being given.


Example

https://youtu.be/AOR7KIwYoZw

Very poor driving to be honest....

magicbastarder

'poor' is not the word which sprung to mind for me.

punisher5112

magicbastarder wrote: »

'poor' is not the word which sprung to mind for me.

Well I didn't want to be banned...

eeeee

jon1981 wrote: »

This^

I'm lit up like a vegas casino, it makes damn all difference. I've front and rear camera footage that proves 1) ignorance of their actions and 2) not one f**k being given.


Example

https://youtu.be/AOR7KIwYoZw

Ugh that's on my commute, happens to me at least twice a week along that stretch :rolleyes:

I had a Dublin Coach beep at me for being in the bus lane in Aston quay, then drive up at me and push me onto the kerb at the ha'penny bridge.
Cnut

sy_flembeck

My missus bought me this a couple of Christmases ago:

http://www.safecyclingireland.org/store/

I'm wearing it a bit at the moment due to the low lighting but it is utterly extraordinary the amount of space I'm given when I have this on.

As I live in a town and that is usually the only part of my ride I have issues I often will put it back on (assuming I've taken it off, that is!) when approaching my town again on thw way back. Good stocking filler I'd say. If the jersey had the camera logo I'd have that as well.

ted1

5CHULZY wrote: »

Travel from east wall along Richmond road and then up grace park towards Whitehall. Then head along the swords road past the omni. It's not too bad. One or two junctions that I've had problems. I'm confident enough to use the roads and try to expect the unexpected but you just never know. I had a young girl cut across into the lay by for whitehall church this morning without indicating and then enter back into the bus lane and down to the lights. Didn't even acknowledge me when I pulled up next to her.

I come over the east link , fair view park, Malahide road , Collins ave, Santry and up

Nice route, safe enough with plenty of off road cycle track.

Being doing it for three years. find it safe enough,

Wishbone Ash

sy_flembeck wrote: »

My missus bought me this a couple of Christmases ago:

http://www.safecyclingireland.org/store/

I'm wearing it a bit at the moment due to the low lighting but it is utterly extraordinary the amount of space I'm given when I have this on.

As I live in a town and that is usually the only part of my ride I have issues I often will put it back on (assuming I've taken it off, that is!) when approaching my town again on thw way back. Good stocking filler I'd say. If the jersey had the camera logo I'd have that as well.

Unfortunately not much use when wearing a back pack.

punisher5112

eeeee wrote: »

Ugh that's on my commute, happens to me at least twice a week along that stretch :rolleyes:

I had a Dublin Coach beep at me for being in the bus lane in Aston quay, then drive up at me and push me onto the kerb at the ha'penny bridge.
Cnut

I hope you reported to traffic watch as it's pointless contacting that company they are shockingly bad.

punisher5112

Get a rear red with the lasers that shone on the road....

Really shows up well.

eeeee

punisher5112 wrote: »

I hope you reported to traffic watch as it's pointless contacting that company they are shockingly bad.

I didn't bother. I think I'm too used to being almost put off the road daily. There's always someone! :rolleyes:

I'd also love a rear laser

punisher5112

eeeee wrote: »

I didn't bother. I think I'm too used to being almost put off the road daily. There's always someone! :rolleyes:

I'd also love a rear laser

Just had one in Rathmines, he walks from side road out into side of bus mid way down... He starts hitting the side and then eventually catches up and starts screaming abuse at me while salutes of his middle finger.

I was plodding along and didn't do anything to the guy.....

It's not always the driver...

But I will agree very poor, crap or sh1te driving out there....

cdaly_

Whatever about hi-vis and cameras etc, I'd advise you to do two things.

1. Use proper lighting on the bike (you do already)
2. Cycle like you drive. Use the full lane where necessary, do not ride in the ditch but out in the lane where you are most obvious. Signal and pull out in good time for obstructions and use large, obvious hand signals when changing direction/road position.

Macy0161

cletus wrote: »

I personally think that the vast majority of close or dangerous passes could be attributed to the above.

I don't believe that's the majority - the majority are just pure inpatience (not necessarily punishment passes) and crap driving. I've often said, I'm actually more regularly concerned by passes that give plenty of space, but when it's clear that the motorist cannot see far enough ahead to complete the move safely.

Regarding hi-viz, the bit of kit that makes the biggest difference for me is the Stayin' Alive at 1.5 Gillet... Not a builders vest, not ankle bands, not my proviz 360 or my RBS jacket...

Eamonnator

Macy0161 wrote: »

I don't believe that's the majority - the majority are just pure inpatience (not necessarily punishment passes) and crap driving. I've often said, I'm actually more regularly concerned by passes that give plenty of space, but when it's clear that the motorist cannot see far enough ahead to complete the move safely.

I think the above is more an older generation, used to slower vehicle speeds, less busy roads. I've had to "educate" an OAP who spent his formative years cycle touring!

Regarding hi-viz, the bit of kit that makes the biggest difference for me is the Stayin' Alive at 1.5 Gillet... Not a builders vest, not ankle bands, not my proviz 360 or my RBS jacket...

Do you think that the older generation stopped cycling and driving in their 30s and then started again, when they they started drawing the pension and thus were unused to busy roads.
With all due respects, your comment sounds just a little little bit condescending.

5CHULZY

Macy0161 wrote: »

I don't believe that's the majority - the majority are just pure inpatience (not necessarily punishment passes) and crap driving. I've often said, I'm actually more regularly concerned by passes that give plenty of space, but when it's clear that the motorist cannot see far enough ahead to complete the move safely.

I think the above is more an older generation, used to slower vehicle speeds, less busy roads. I've had to "educate" an OAP who spent his formative years cycle touring!

Regarding hi-viz, the bit of kit that makes the biggest difference for me is the Stayin' Alive at 1.5 Gillet... Not a builders vest, not ankle bands, not my proviz 360 or my RBS jacket...

Didn't know anything about the staying alive at 1.5 campaign until now. I think it would be a good idea to get a backpack cover made with the same message put on. That was what I was trying to get across in my original post.

07Lapierre

Macy0161 wrote: »

I don't believe that's the majority - the majority are just pure inpatience (not necessarily punishment passes) and crap driving. I've often said, I'm actually more regularly concerned by passes that give plenty of space, but when it's clear that the motorist cannot see far enough ahead to complete the move safely.

I think the above is more an older generation, used to slower vehicle speeds, less busy roads. I've had to "educate" an OAP who spent his formative years cycle touring!

Regarding hi-viz, the bit of kit that makes the biggest difference for me is the Stayin' Alive at 1.5 Gillet... Not a builders vest, not ankle bands, not my proviz 360 or my RBS jacket...

I actually think most close passes i get are younger people who probably never cycled as kids (if they did they cycled on the pavements!) so they have been brought up thinking roads are for motorised traffic only.

In fact, i'd say close passes are universal! Young, Old, Male Female, doesn't matter, they all do it!

07Lapierre

5CHULZY wrote: »

Didn't know anything about the staying alive at 1.5 campaign until now. I think it would be a good idea to get a backpack cover made with the same message put on. That was what I was trying to get across in my original post.

It certainly wont do any harm, but I'm not sure it will do any good either, because as i said earlier, visibility is not the issue. The issue is drivers just don't see any reason to give 1.5 meter space when passing cyclists.

5CHULZY

cdaly_ wrote: »

Whatever about hi-vis and cameras etc, I'd advise you to do two things.

1. Use proper lighting on the bike (you do already)
2. Cycle like you drive. Use the full lane where necessary, do not ride in the ditch but out in the lane where you are most obvious. Signal and pull out in good time for obstructions and use large, obvious hand signals when changing direction/road position.

That's exactly how I ride. I'm not scared of riding in the middle of the road for my own safety. I find that giving a little thumbs up gesture to drivers as I move out across lanes while signalling to turn right also helps and is appreciated.

Admittedly I have been in the wrong sometimes and I have held my hands up and apologised to the driver. Driver acknowledges this and continues on his way. No abuse whatsoever

Eamonnator

Ahh yeah, we O.A.Ps find it difficult to grasp complicated concepts like busy roads, two abreast cycling, speed and busy roads.
I consider myself now "educated"
Thanks for the lesson.


This post is a response to a now deleted post.

Macy0161

If it's going to cause offence, which it wasn't meant to, the mods can feel free to delete it out. It wasn't meant to be a generalisation, although it obviously came across that way.

droidus

There's no worst demographic - young old, middle aged are equally bad. My most terrifying encounter ever was with a psychopathic octogenarian nun in a yaris.

Seth Brundle

droidus wrote: »

There's no worst demographic - young old, middle aged are equally bad. My most terrifying encounter ever was with a psychopathic octogenarian nun in a yaris.

Did she stop to tell you her age?

Eamonnator

Macy0161 wrote: »

If it's going to cause offence, which it wasn't meant to, the mods can feel free to delete it out. It wasn't meant to be a generalisation, although it obviously came across that way.

Not that easily offended.
Being old, I don't know how to post emojis, but if I did, I'd attach one, that showed tongue firmly in cheek.

droidus

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Did she stop to tell you her age?

Educated guess, though I admit it is often hard to tell with nuns. She could have been 100+

eeeee

droidus wrote: »

Educated guess, though I admit it is often hard to tell with nuns. She could have been 100+

Nun-skin is basically Neverneverland materialised. Ya gotta pray them wrinkles away!