Roundabout approach speed limit.

AnnaStezia

Half listening to something on radio yesterday which was not well explained.

A driver approached a roundabout. She says she was pinged by a Garda for speeding on the basis that there is a limit of 50kmph on approach to a roundabout. She seemed to say that she was in a 70kmph zone at the time.

Is there any law that says that you must reduce to a specified speed on approaching a roundabout ? I thought that you were entitled to approach a roundabout at a speed within whatever limit applies to the stretch of road on which you are travelling.

What is the law ?

Gobethewall

I listened to this too. Couldn't make head or tail of it. If there's a 50k limit on approach to a roundabout , where would it start? Unfortunately woman kept talking about mph, the only thing I can think is that guard decided she was approaching too fast. However if the guard said that there is a speed limit of 50k set for approaching a roundabout I have have never heard of it and again from where would it start?

GM228

I didn't hear it, but I know what it is about.

This would be in relation to is what is known as the "built up area speed limit" of 50 km/h which generally is not sign posted as it is a statutory speed limit and automatically applies within the boundaries of any city, borough or town when a "special speed limit" is not in place.

So in other words every single road in the state within the boundaries of any city, borough or town has a default 50 km/h speed limit unless there is a lower/higher special speed limit applicable to the roundabout/road.

There is no 70km/h speed limit in Ireland.

ohnonotgmail

GM228 wrote: »

I didn't hear it, but I know what it is about.

This would be in relation to is what is known as the "built up area speed limit" of 50 km/h which generally is not sign posted as it is a statutory speed limit and automatically applies within the boundaries of any city, borough or town when a "special speed limit" is not in place.

So in other words every single road in the state within the boundaries of any city, borough or town has a default 50 km/h speed limit unless there is a lower/higher special speed limit applicable to the roundabout/road.

There is no 70km/h speed limit in Ireland.

A driver approached a roundabout. She says she was pinged by a Garda for speeding on the basis that there is a limit of 50kmph on approach to a roundabout. She seemed to say that she was in a 70kmph zone at the time.

If the posted limit is 70kmh then 70 kmh is the limit. it doesn't automatically reduce to 50 just because there is a roundabout ahead.

rd1izb7lvpuksx

The minister can impose a speed limit of 70km/h, but the only ordinary speed limits are 120km/h, 100km/h, 80km/h, and 50km/h. There are two special speed limits in use, 30km/h and 60km/h. There should be no 70km/h speed limits posted in Ireland.

E30i

She claimed it was 60 not 70 was what I think I took from it. She was clocked at 74 so was either 14 klms or 24 klms over the speed limit. She was claiming 14 or 6 and a half miles which was wrong anyway.

rugbyman

E30i wrote: »

She claimed it was 60 not 70 was what I think I took from it. She was clocked at 74 so was either 14 klms or 24 klms over the speed limit. She was claiming 14 or 6 and a half miles which was wrong anyway.

I ,too,listened to this.did not fully understand it.the lady drives an ex UK car, so reads in miles.she travels to the UK and seemed competent. She said she was 6.5 miles over the alleged limit. 74 km is around 46mph.
The whole point is whether coming into a roundabout affects the limit.

Gobethewall

Unfortunately she didn't explain this very well and the mph as opposed to kph has muddied the waters. However, what I don't get is the guard telling her there is a 50kph limit coming up to roundabouts, this i have never heard of, if it is the case, how far away from the roundabout does this mandatory speed limit apply?

GM228

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

If the posted limit is 70kmh then 70 kmh is the limit. it doesn't automatically reduce to 50 just because there is a roundabout ahead.

There is no 70 km/h speed limit though.

I never said it reduces to 50 km/h just because there is a roundabout, I said the speed limit is 50 km/h within the boundaries of any city, borough or town when a "special speed limit" is not in place.

Jacoby Squeaking Neck wrote: »

The minister can impose a speed limit of 70km/h, but the only ordinary speed limits are 120km/h, 100km/h, 80km/h, and 50km/h. There are two special speed limits in use, 30km/h and 60km/h. There should be no 70km/h speed limits posted in Ireland.

The minister can not impose a special speed limit of 70 km/h, there is no authority to do so.

You also have your ordinary and special speed limits completely wrong.

Ordinary speed limits are ministerial prescribed limits which are vehicle type specific as opposed to road specific. Currently they are 65, 80, 90 and 100 km/h.

Special speed limits can be 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 80, 100 and 120 km/h as per the relevant bye laws.

GM228

GM228 wrote: »

I didn't hear it, but I know what it is about.

This would be in relation to is what is known as the "built up area speed limit" of 50 km/h which generally is not sign posted as it is a statutory speed limit and automatically applies within the boundaries of any city, borough or town when a "special speed limit" is not in place.

So in other words every single road in the state within the boundaries of any city, borough or town has a default 50 km/h speed limit unless there is a lower/higher special speed limit applicable to the roundabout/road.

There is no 70km/h speed limit in Ireland.

There's no 40kmh either, but Meath County Council are putting them up nonetheless.

rd1izb7lvpuksx

GM228 wrote: »

There is no 70 km/h speed limit though.

I never said it reduces to 50 km/h just because there is a roundabout, I said the speed limit is 50 km/h within the boundaries of any city, borough or town when a "special speed limit" is not in place.





The minister can not impose a special speed limit of 70 km/h, there is no authority to do so.

You also have your ordinary and special speed limits completely wrong.

Ordinary speed limits are ministerial prescribed limits which are vehicle type specific as opposed to road specific. Currently they are 65, 80, 90 and 100 km/h.

Special speed limits can be 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 80, 100 and 120 km/h as per the relevant bye laws.

I stand corrected.

Deleted User wrote: »

There's no 40kmh either, but Meath County Council are putting them up nonetheless.

Yes, it seems that 40km/h is not allowed: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/act/44/enacted/en/print#sec9

GM228

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There's no 40kmh either, but Meath County Council are putting them up nonetheless.

There has been a 40 km/h since 13th April 2017

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2016/act/21/section/22/enacted/en/html#sec22

seamus

It sounds like there's been utter confusion on the whole thing, so I'd skeptical that what the woman claimed she was told, is what she was actually told.

The Garda could have said, "You came flying into that roundabout far too fast. You were doing more than 70, you shouldn't be doing more than 50". He wouldn't have meant the limit was 50, but that she needed to be travelling slow enough to stop if necessary.

Any road, one could easily apply a careless or dangerous driving charge for entering a roundabout at an excessive speed. The speed measurement could be used in evidence for such a charge.

is_that_so

I would have thought that common sense suggests slowing down always. That said, some of the roundabouts on the Swords stretch of the R132 can comfortably be taken at 55-60 kph with no crossing traffic.

Victor

GM228 wrote: »

There has been a 40 km/h since 13th April 2017

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2016/act/21/section/22/enacted/en/html#sec22

40 km/h has been there since 2010: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2010/act/25/section/86/enacted/en/html although there seems not to have been a commencement order.

GM228

Victor wrote: »

40 km/h has been there since 2010: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2010/act/25/section/86/enacted/en/html although there seems not to have been a commencement order.

We only got it in 2017 because as you noted the section in the 2010 Act was never commenced.

Richmond Ultra

When approaching turns off motorways etc you see a drop in speed. Junction 6 going northbound drops to 80 from 100. Junction 9 southside drops to 30 from 50. Once you pass the sign, that's the speed limit regardless of how quiet,busy etc the road is. She might not have seen the sign but it appears to be an easy concept to understand.

donspeekinglesh

On the approach to the R156/R157 roundabout on the Dunboyne ring road the limit on the ring road (R157) drops to 50, and then goes back to 80 on the other side.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/BFsX3ArbUfBeVPZP6

Am sure I've seen the same elsewhere.

GM228

GM228 wrote: »

There has been a 40 km/h since 13th April 2017

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2016/act/21/section/22/enacted/en/html#sec22

I genuinely did not know that. I always looked at the 40 signs and shook my head thinking 'of all the speeds they could use, they managed to just randomly make one up :rolleyes:'.


I'm kinda glad it's a proper limit now. Makes me feel a bit more like the Council actually have a clue what they're at (which is complimentary in the extreme!).

Reati

Victor wrote: »

40 km/h has been there since 2010: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2010/act/25/section/86/enacted/en/html although there seems not to have been a commencement order.

There is 40kph signs all over towns in wicklow, like Wicklow town, Bray and Arklow. Id assume those have been validated as legal and enforcable?

Victor

Reati wrote: »

There is 40kph signs all over towns in wicklow, like Wicklow town, Bray and Arklow. Id assume those have been validated as legal and enforcable?

Since 2017, yes.

Interesting that the other thing that the un-commenced amendment would have made legal was 30 and 40 km/h on motorways (as oppose to non-motorway roads). Fingal County Council put 30 km/h speed limit signs on the tight spiral ramps on the M50 years ago, but they were legally dubious.

Potential-Monke

I served as a Garda, and I've never heard of this 50kph entering a roundabout. But, I agree that 70kph was way too fast to be entering a roundabout. How can you do that speed and still be expected to stop suddenly if needed? One should always slow down when approaching a roundabout, even if it's clear there's no other traffic, because it will only develop bad habits which will eventually become 'the way you drive'.

Would be interested to see the file for this one, if there is one.

The J Stands for Jay

Victor wrote: »

Since 2017, yes.

Interesting that the other thing that the un-commenced amendment would have made legal was 30 and 40 km/h on motorways (as oppose to non-motorway roads). Fingal County Council put 30 km/h speed limit signs on the tight spiral ramps on the M50 years ago, but they were legally dubious.

I got 2 points and an €80 fine for doing 46km/h on a non twisty of ramp. I didn't slow down more because of the unmarked Transit dangerously abandoned half on the curb, and the JDM road race that would have caught me up.

And now I'm hearing that the limit was legally dubious?

AnnaStezia

Deleted User wrote: »

There's no 40kmh either, but Meath County Council are putting them up nonetheless.

I saw one in Greystones recently - it covers traffic coming from the southern direction going towards the railway station !

Reati

McGaggs wrote: »

I got 2 points and an €80 fine for doing 46km/h on a non twisty of ramp. I didn't slow down more because of the unmarked Transit dangerously abandoned half on the curb, and the JDM road race that would have caught me up.

And now I'm hearing that the limit was legally dubious?

Van or Garda pulled you in?

L1011

GM228 wrote: »

We only got it in 2017 because as you noted the section in the 2010 Act was never commenced.

I must find whoever told me I was wrong about that at some point between 2010 and 2017 and have my vengeance! :pac:

I was looking at older legislation and saying 40 wasn't allowable and got shown said uncommenced legislation as "proof" I was wrong

Victor

L1011 wrote: »

I must find whoever told me I was wrong about that at some point between 2010 and 2017 and have my vengeance! :pac:

I was looking at older legislation and saying 40 wasn't allowable and got shown said uncommenced legislation as "proof" I was wrong

Was it me?

GM228

Victor wrote: »

Since 2017, yes.

Interesting that the other thing that the un-commenced amendment would have made legal was 30 and 40 km/h on motorways (as oppose to non-motorway roads). Fingal County Council put 30 km/h speed limit signs on the tight spiral ramps on the M50 years ago, but they were legally dubious.

But they may not be on the motorway though, the spiral ramps don't seem to form part of the motorway according to the Roads Act 1993 (Classification of National Roads) Order 2012 order for example and under the Traffic Signs manual the "Motorway Ends" signs must be positioned at the point the motorway ends, although the TII junction maps show they are part of the motorway so it's a little confusing.

Take the N2 exit for example, the motorway ends sign is well before the point the 30 km/h starts, from there it would appear to be part of the N2 (becoming the R135) as opposed to the M50 as the N2 is designated as starting from it's junction with the M50.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/vUvW8ZihmQnJ9Lqp7