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East Link Toll to increase by 36%

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,529 ✭✭✭✭ Idbatterim


    brilliant! because the council wont collect money they are owed, at the pittance in rent they charge on social housing! Send more traffic over the chronically choked macken street bridge! So typically irish!


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,062 Mod ✭✭✭✭ godtabh


    Idbatterim wrote: »

    brilliant! because the council wont collect money they are owed, at the pittance in rent they charge on social housing!

    You sure?

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/soci...ears-1.4085923


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,529 ✭✭✭✭ Idbatterim


    godtabh wrote: »

    yeah owed tens of millions and even at that, the people in it are getting it for a fraction of market rent! typical the answer is always just, "ah shure bump up the price" :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭ Nijmegen


    In fairness, arrears is rising by €1m per year. Which is bad, and needs to be dealt with, and it's good to see them finally taking enforcement action. But government (local and national) can do more than 1 thing at a time and this feels like one of those that will be wheeled out every time there's something to be paid for, until the magical €1m per year has solved the entire ills affecting this council and its €971m per year budget.

    I do like the quality of journalism insofar as none of the articles I've read on it have broken down the increases they'll get from the toll change. I've read that the east link has 14-17,000 vehicles cross it each day but I doubt that's every day of the year. I guess if you keep it at the lower end and assume everyone is a car to try smooth that out, they'd be looking at an additional €2.5m per year? Maybe €2m?

    I'm not a fan of big government myself, but while people simultaneously demand more services and lower or fixed taxes nothing will ever get squared. And in fairness to hikes on parking and tolls, they are usage taxes rather than just taken from you for fun. Dublin city is not a place it's hard to get to on public transport, even if it isn't nice, and so you pay a premium on other commuters to use the toll and park your car versus slogging it on a bus.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 21,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭ bk


    Nijmegen wrote: »
    so you pay a premium on other commuters to use the toll and park your car versus slogging it on a bus.

    This is the important bit. There simply isn't enough space in the city center for all the people who want to drive in and it is only going to get worse with the growing population.

    The only way to deal with this, is to ramp up the cost of driving into the city (parking, tolls, eventually congestion charging) until people can't afford to drive into the city any more and switch to public transport instead.

    Don't shut the messenger, this is just the reality is.

    The only alternative, is to ban cars from the city center completely and force everyone onto public transport. I'd actually think this is a fairer approach, but it would likely face lots of opposition.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 43,472 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder


    i would assume that the biggest problem with the east link is that it now (taking southbound as an example) disgorges its traffic - once you get to the end of sean moore road, i.e. that junction overlooked by the filling station - to the four winds, through and around suburbs, and a lot of it can be heavy traffic. all those roads are single lane roads, and not wide enough to comfortably take that traffic.
    i've seen (on the rare occasion), traffic backed up from the bridge almost back to the merrion gates.

    not sure how you'd deal with that using tolls, though - bar ramping them up and forcing people through other bottlenecks, or to look at alternatives.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭ Nijmegen


    i would assume that the biggest problem with the east link is that it now (taking southbound as an example) disgorges its traffic - once you get to the end of sean moore road, i.e. that junction overlooked by the filling station - to the four winds, through and around suburbs, and a lot of it can be heavy traffic. all those roads are single lane roads, and not wide enough to comfortably take that traffic.
    i've seen (on the rare occasion), traffic backed up from the bridge almost back to the merrion gates.

    not sure how you'd deal with that using tolls, though - bar ramping them up and forcing people through other bottlenecks, or to look at alternatives.

    It's a case of best worst option in Dublin nowadays. I'd take the tunnel and east link some days because I'll do in 45-50 minutes what will take me 1:30 to 1:45 if I go the M50 (sleeping in can cost me a tenner, yes). So even though you're running into traffic on the southside suburbs it still moves considerably better than the M50 does and trying to come in off the M50 to its bottlenecks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,529 ✭✭✭✭ Idbatterim


    dublin port are looking at connecting the north and south docks by another bridge or tunnel. Would be good if they somehow link the crossing directly into the port and port tunnel and open it to general traffic... ah ok, so I found an article about it and yeah that is the plan, link it into port tunnel. If they had a new bridge, they could provide far better pedestrian and cycling facilities around it, something potentially with even an elevated pedestrian / cycle link into the 3 arena... so that the traffic on the north quays would move a lot quicker...

    https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/port-eyes-new-liffey-bridge-for-tunnel-link-36614640.html


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    What a ridiculous train of events around the east link.

    30 years after it was built the east link and handed back to public ownership and should have been gone but the DCC simply voted to keep it among themselves as its a cash cow of millions a year.

    The price for a car drops to €1.40 from ~€1.70 as the government lost a case that went all the way to Europe that ruled they should not charge VAT on a public toll road. They never had to return any of the extra money they collected for years.

    A few years passes and now DCC just vote to increase it to €1.90, 36% increase.

    It's very apparent that the toll infrastructure and bridge are in a very poor state, I've seen the bridge get stuck a number of times while attempting a lift an another time it wouldn't lift at all and brought the whole area to a standstill for 30 mins.
    The barriers are failing extremely often, the coin bucket can't handle more than a few coins. The 3 lanes into 2 into 1 has to be the worst design ever, thank you 1980s. The traffic is brutal most evenings now especially if there is a concert on and that point roundabout isn't fit for purpose.

    Charging almost €2 for the bridge that avoids the city center while a bridge a few hundred meters up the road is free is stupidity, using the north docks and east wall as a rat run, the only thing putting you off using Samuel Beckett is the traffic but the east link is as bad some evenings. I'll be using the Samuel Beckett bridge outside of rush hours. It's not worth €1.90 in it's current state.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,683 ✭✭✭✭ punisher5112


    More mopeds and motorcyclist is badly needed like London otherwise people are doomed to sit in hours of traffic.

    Ridiculous increase all the same though


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 43,472 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder


    the east link toll booths are also home to the narrowest cycle lane i think i've seen - so narrow, they can't even fit the bike symbol in it:

    496279.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭ Marty Bird


    the east link toll booths are also home to the narrowest cycle lane i think i've seen - so narrow, they can't even fit the bike symbol in it:

    496279.jpg

    Add the absolute state of the 3 arena Roundabout when your coming from the quays onto the bridge going south.
    There are so many bad spots from the Toll booth to Sean Moore roundabout.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,529 ✭✭✭✭ Idbatterim


    that area is a nightmare! the irish glass bottle site will house ten thousand or more. they have talked about building a bridge for years so that the south quays would be connected to the east link road. They need to massively up the infrastructure there with the sheer amount of extra people that will be living there over the next 5-10 years. The population is going to explode.

    they need to create proper pedestrian and cycle infrastructure there, of course the road capacity is well below what it needs to be and needs to be addressed too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 564 ✭✭✭ thenightman


    If you increase road capacity you just create more traffic and the need for even more road capacity, as has been proven the world over and with the M50. Better to use the money to create better public transport and cycling options instead. I know you're probably against things like that, what with your laughably cartoonish right wing agenda and all, like attempting to blame social housing tenants for an increase in toll fees.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 61,803 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    that area is a nightmare! the irish glass bottle site will house ten thousand or more. they have talked about building a bridge for years so that the south quays would be connected to the east link road. They need to massively up the infrastructure there with the sheer amount of extra people that will be living there over the next 5-10 years. The population is going to explode.

    they need to create proper pedestrian and cycle infrastructure there, of course the road capacity is well below what it needs to be and needs to be addressed too.

    That bridge is planned and some works for engineering purposes have been done. But guess what - it won't be open for private cars :eek:

    Public transport only. IGB site is very likely to end up with an extension of the Luas Red line to it; there is space left under the Exo building for it to get out of the existing dead end. They won't be adding private car capacity anywhere for it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,529 ✭✭✭✭ Idbatterim


    If you increase road capacity you just create more traffic and the need for even more road capacity, as has been proven the world over and with the M50. Better to use the money to create better public transport and cycling options instead. I know you're probably against things like that, what with your laughably cartoonish right wing agenda and all, like attempting to blame social housing tenants for an increase in toll fees.

    yes, if they paid their rent or the council was more proactive in going after money owed, there would have been no need for business rate increases or this toll going up...


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,683 ✭✭✭✭ punisher5112


    We need either roads on stilts or we need underground roads.

    The Luas should have been on stilts or underground also.

    In Dublin city where a bus area was meant to be was actually in temple bar.

    It was to be a hub.

    Look at other cities and how well these services run and even these hubs are underground and it means a better flow and less congestion.

    Bus connects will help but it's not going to be enough.

    So much could be done now to speed up public transport and get more using it.

    No new carriages or trains for years to come and at above capacity in many cases.

    As I said mopeds and motorcycles would be a very quick fix too.

    Open up to car drivers that have passed their test to be able to use up to say 125cc and get insurance sorted as it's such a scam...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,765 ✭✭✭ mikemac2



    As I said mopeds and motorcycles would be a very quick fix too.

    Open up to car drivers that have passed their test to be able to use up to say 125cc and get insurance sorted as it's such a scam...

    There was a time when getting a full B licence also gave you a licence for 50cc.

    That was done away with. For some reason I have October 2006 in my head so it may have been then

    My 50cc scooter got me through Dublin traffic quick smart :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭ suicide_circus


    mikemac2 wrote: »
    There was a time when getting a full B licence also gave you a licence for 50cc.

    That was done away with. For some reason I have October 2006 in my head so it may have been then

    My 50cc scooter got me through Dublin traffic quick smart :)

    were there a lot of fatalities involving Honda 50's or was it yet another cash grab?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,765 ✭✭✭ mikemac2


    Wasn't Irelands decision

    It was to harmonise with other EU states. No longer would get licence categories get added for no reason so if you something you must apply.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭ suicide_circus


    mikemac2 wrote: »
    Wasn't Irelands decision

    It was to harmonise with other EU states. No longer would get licence categories get added for no reason so if you something you must apply.
    the EU wanted to increase bureaucracy?


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,595 ✭✭✭✭ end of the road


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    brilliant! because the council wont collect money they are owed, at the pittance in rent they charge on social housing! Send more traffic over the chronically choked macken street bridge! So typically irish!

    yeah, sure.
    if you want to use a car in dublin you are going to have to pay for it, that is just the reality, you are going to need to get used to that.
    no amount of rants about people who owe rent to the council, who have nothing to do with this, will change that fact.
    Idbatterim wrote: »
    yes, if they paid their rent or the council was more proactive in going after money owed, there would have been no need for business rate increases or this toll going up...

    yes there would.
    toll increases are necessary to price people off the bridge on to alternatives to save road expansion costs in the areas effected. road expansion costs are going to become unaffordable and unsustainable in dublin, so this is the future and more tolls and charges are needed.

    julian the journalist asange is innocent, free julian the journalist.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,702 ✭✭✭ blackwhite


    the east link toll booths are also home to the narrowest cycle lane i think i've seen - so narrow, they can't even fit the bike symbol in it:

    496279.jpg

    I've never understood why anyone cycles along that road between Sean Moore Rd roundabout and the toll booths.

    If I'm going that way I'll always cycle along Pigeon House Road & York Rd and then back out just before the Eastlink.
    https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3444786,-6.2271054,3a,75y,6.29h,69.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sziBI6pow0f9hkAbRBrzUug!2e0!7i16384!8i8192


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 43,472 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder


    i only cycle through the tolls in the morning - i pass through before 7am so it's usually reasonably quiet.
    in the evening, i come through ringsend, and drop onto the bridge via thorncastle street.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,529 ✭✭✭✭ Idbatterim


    yeah, sure.
    if you want to use a car in dublin you are going to have to pay for it, that is just the reality, you are going to need to get used to that.
    no amount of rants about people who owe rent to the council, who have nothing to do with this, will change that fact.



    yes there would.
    toll increases are necessary to price people off the bridge on to alternatives to save road expansion costs in the areas effected. road expansion costs are going to become unaffordable and unsustainable in dublin, so this is the future and more tolls and charges are needed.

    So where are these people going to go ? A longer route over the chronically congested macken street bridge ? That east link toll should have been scrapped a long time ago !


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 43,472 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder


    the toll doesn't really slow traffic down much though, does it? for example (just using the direction i'm familiar with); northbound in the evening, you get through the toll and the traffic in front of you is at a standstill because it's the bridge itself which is the pinch point.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,595 ✭✭✭✭ end of the road


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    So where are these people going to go ? A longer route over the chronically congested macken street bridge ?

    put a toll on that as well tbh.
    Idbatterim wrote: »
    That east link toll should have been scrapped a long time ago !

    it shouldn't and it wasn't.
    scrapping it would probably increase congestion actually as more would head that way.

    julian the journalist asange is innocent, free julian the journalist.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,702 ✭✭✭ blackwhite


    the toll doesn't really slow traffic down much though, does it? for example (just using the direction i'm familiar with); northbound in the evening, you get through the toll and the traffic in front of you is at a standstill because it's the bridge itself which is the pinch point.

    Northbound is equally bad in the morning as well.

    The bridge isn't the problem per-se - it's the roundabout at the Point that is the pinch point.

    You've a conflict in any traffic from East Wall business park, from Dublin Port and from the tunnel all looking to turn down the North Quays is preventing traffic from exiting the bridge. Add in that any traffic exiting from the P&O ferryport is forced to loop around the roundabout to go North and then you very quickly get traffic backing up to well past the toll booths.

    Removing the toll would only increase the traffic on the Eastlink, and would do nothing to ease the bottleneck.
    If they wanted to tackle the traffic problem then they should raise the toll, and ring-fence the funding to revamp both the river crossing (including delivering the proposed public transport only bridge), and the road layouts around the Point to try and improve things.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 43,472 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder


    i thought they had been due to replace that junction before now? the plan was to do away with the roundabout.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,702 ✭✭✭ blackwhite


    i thought they had been due to replace that junction before now? the plan was to do away with the roundabout.

    https://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/content/Planning/Documents/T0100-03%20Proposed%20Scheme%20General%20Arrangement.pdf


    Plans from four years ago - nothing since that I can find.

    Replacing the roundabout with traffic lights, but still doesn't clear the conflict between NB traffic coming from the bridge, and SB traffic trying to travel down the north quays. I'm not convinced it'll do anything to ease the congestion.

    It will give a new exit for the P&O ferry terminal opposite Sheriff St, taking some of the trucks away from the bridge junction.


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