Gentrification

What is the tipping point.

The new children hospital has a big effect on properties in the area

What’s the story with house prices? Not the worst, but rising rapidly. The average asking price of a property in Rialto is €297,006 – well below the all-city average of roughly €410,000, according to Daft.ie. But prices in the area are increasing quickly, jumping by almost 20 per cent year on year.

https://www.thejournal.ie/rialto-neighbourhood-guide-3965096-Apr2018/

I almost guarantee that going back a few years on accommodation & property on board if someone had said they were thinking of buying in Rialto? Dolphins Barn, the responses would be its a terrible idea, the drugs, the antisocial behavior. The area is still the same discarded drug paraphilia down lanes ect.

What is the tipping point that makes that first-person take a chance on an area?

Zenify

Rate it 1-10 for location e.g. close to city/public transport, then 1-10 based on how bad it is. Top scoring areas will gentrify first. Lowest will never gentrify.

Area will lose 2 extra points if horses are in fields or kids on scrambles.

handlemaster

mariaalice wrote: »

What is the tipping point.

The new children hospital has a big effect on properties in the area

What’s the story with house prices? Not the worst, but rising rapidly. The average asking price of a property in Rialto is €297,006 – well below the all-city average of roughly €410,000, according to Daft.ie. But prices in the area are increasing quickly, jumping by almost 20 per cent year on year.

https://www.thejournal.ie/rialto-neighbourhood-guide-3965096-Apr2018/

I almost guarantee that going back a few years on accommodation & property on board if someone had said they were thinking of buying in Rialto? Dolphins Barn, the responses would be its a terrible idea, the drugs, the antisocial behavior. The area is still the same discarded drug paraphilia down lanes ect.

What is the tipping point that makes that first-person take a chance on an area?

Lots of reasons. Price location, family ties to the area, might not be buying looking at what prices will be.

Id say that area is still pretty rough

Empty_Space

Location is key.

Anywhere within walking distance of Dublin are desirable even if they historically were bad areas.

I think the likes of Stoneybatter is similar.

Finglas is a while off imo.

CosmicSmash

Empty_Space wrote: »

Location is key.

Anywhere within walking distance of Dublin are desirable even if they historically were bad areas.

I think the likes of Stoneybatter is similar.

Finglas is a while off imo.

Stoneybatter was never a bad area. For some reason hipsters have some misconception that the streets were unsafe to walk before their arrival in the area.

Empty_Space

CosmicSmash wrote: »

Stoneybatter was never a bad area. For some reason hipsters have some misconception that the streets were unsafe to walk before their arrival in the area.

Well it's certainly an improving area.

Empty_Space

Empty_Space wrote: »

Location is key.

Anywhere within walking distance of Dublin are desirable even if they historically were bad areas.

I think the likes of Stoneybatter is similar.

Finglas is a while off imo.

By the time it arrives, it would be too expensive to buy for the average single person to buy.

Mad_maxx

Empty_Space wrote: »

Location is key.

Anywhere within walking distance of Dublin are desirable even if they historically were bad areas.

I think the likes of Stoneybatter is similar.

Finglas is a while off imo.

Which part of Finglas is within walking distance of the city?

Empty_Space

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Which part of Finglas is within walking distance of the city?

None, get a map

riclad

I Think stoneybatter was reviewed in the lonely planet as a very pleasant area to go to.
It,s mostly old house,s and small shop,s and theres no large council housing blocks in the area.
Alot of people buy old house,s in certain area,s ,they spend money,
upgrade them, new shop,s open, small coffee shops open.
being near a luas stop helps .
gentrification is a gradual process .
Stoneybatter was always a quiet area .
finglas is not in walking distance of the city centre .

https://www.independent.ie/life/has-your-area-hit-peak-gentrification-35591501.html

so people who cannot afford to buy in stoneybatter maybe buy a house in cabra.

L1011

Ballybough is on the list, I suspect - has stock of old houses and close to the city centre

By the time anyone has heard of the place where ever it is or if is on any list , its would be too late to buy.

Mad_maxx

Empty_Space wrote: »

None, get a map

Read back over what you said a few posts ago

"anywhere within walking distance of the city"

Always look clever before being a smartarse, you didn't.

L1011

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Read back over what you said a few posts ago

"anywhere within walking distance of the city"

Always look clever before being a smartarse, you didn't.

Finglas is mentioned in a completely different statement - indeed one excluding it from the walking distance areas at that - so you are the one misreading here. And drop the attitude about it

tom1ie

Why are people so rude to each other and engaged in one-upmanship all the time on boards.ie. It’s turning into a cesspit, which is unfortunate as this site can be very helpful.

L1011

L1011 wrote: »

Finglas is mentioned in a completely different statement - indeed one excluding it from the walking distance areas at that - so you are the one misreading here. And drop the attitude about it

Completely off-topic and maybe its a growing up in the county thing, but Finglas to the city center is between 5 to 7km of a walk its not a strole but its hardly a huge walk.

1 h 6 min (5.4 km) via Finglas Rd according to the map.

Mad_maxx

L1011 wrote: »

Finglas is mentioned in a completely different statement - indeed one excluding it from the walking distance areas at that - so you are the one misreading here. And drop the attitude about it

Read post number 4 in the thread, includes finglas as within walking distance of the city

No attitude here, just a solid rebuke

Telling me to "get a map" was attitude

Mad_maxx

mariaalice wrote: »

Completely off-topic and maybe its a growing up in the county thing, but Finglas to the city center is between 5 to 7km of a walk its not a strole but its hardly a huge walk.

1 h 6 min (5.4 km) via Finglas Rd according to the map.

I've several relatives in Beaumont and its as close to town as finglas, they certainly don't view themselves as "within walking distance"

L1011

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Read post number 4 in the thread, includes finglas as within walking distance of the city

No attitude here, just a solid rebuke

Telling me to "get a map" was attitude

It absolutely doesn't. Drop it.

Don't post again on that issue.

tom1ie

tom1ie wrote: »

Why are people so rude to each other and engaged in one-upmanship all the time on boards.ie. It’s turning into a cesspit, which is unfortunate as this site can be very helpful.

Housing is an emotive subject, my original post was aimed at those who rather curse the dark or in general parlance moan rather than do something.

Buying on their own for some, especially on a low income is going to involve enormous compromises, but would that not be better that say at aged 39 renting in shared accommodation.

Cyclepath

Getting back to the OP's question...

I'm 15 years in Inchicore, literally less than 10 mins walk from the new hospital. I moved there because it was the best I could afford post-divorce, i.e. less than 200K.

Prices where I am peaked at about 410-440K during the boom and still aren't back to that level despite the hospital - more like 350k max.

I'm sure the hospital will lift prices, but I think it's interesting that although I'm right beside a luas stop and a short stroll from the hospital, prices are still a good way off the boom peak prices - even though the general opinion seems to be that the market is back to 'normal'.

tom1ie

Empty_Space wrote: »

None, get a map

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Which part of Finglas is within walking distance of the city?

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Read back over what you said a few posts ago

"anywhere within walking distance of the city"

Always look clever before being a smartarse, you didn't.

L1011 wrote: »

Finglas is mentioned in a completely different statement - indeed one excluding it from the walking distance areas at that - so you are the one misreading here. And drop the attitude about it

Sorry op I was more talking about the sniping going on above.

mariaalice wrote: »

Housing is an emotive subject, my original post was aimed at those who rather curse the dark or in general parlance moan rather than do something.

Buying on their own for some, especially on a low income is going to involve enormous compromises, but would that not be better that say at aged 39 renting in shared accommodation.

tom1ie

Cyclepath wrote: »

Getting back to the OP's question...

I'm 15 years in Inchicore, literally less than 10 mins walk from the new hospital. I moved there because it was the best I could afford post-divorce, i.e. less than 200K.

Prices where I am peaked at about 410-440K during the boom and still aren't back to that level despite the hospital - more like 350k max.

I'm sure the hospital will lift prices, but I think it's interesting that although I'm right beside a luas stop and a short stroll from the hospital, prices are still a good way off the boom peak prices - even though the general opinion seems to be that the market is back to 'normal'.

Boom prices were over inflated though so the price your dwelling is at now is probably more realistic.

Cyclepath

Cyclepath wrote: »

Getting back to the OP's question...

I'm 15 years in Inchicore, literally less than 10 mins walk from the new hospital. I moved there because it was the best I could afford post-divorce, i.e. less than 200K.

Prices where I am peaked at about 410-440K during the boom and still aren't back to that level despite the hospital - more like 350k max.

I'm sure the hospital will lift prices, but I think it's interesting that although I'm right beside a luas stop and a short stroll from the hospital, prices are still a good way off the boom peak prices - even though the general opinion seems to be that the market is back to 'normal'.

A rise from circa 200k to 350k in 15 years is an increase of around 57% that is not bad

Ciaranis

I walk to city centre from Beaumont every day. Takes me 50 mins at a reasonable but not extraordinary pace.

However, most parts of Beaumont are closer to the city centre than most parts of Finglas, I would have thought.

Mic 1972

Ciaranis wrote: »

I walk to city centre from Beaumont every day. Takes me 50 mins at a reasonable but not extraordinary pace.

However, most parts of Beaumont are closer to the city centre than most parts of Finglas, I would have thought.

Walking distance means probably 15-20 mins walk max, longer than that it's a marathone

the area around that hospital is horrific. dolphins barn, reuben st, a lot of whats in or off cork st

gentrification couldnt come soon or hard enough for the removal of the bad elements i had experience of when i lived there.

Mic 1972

mariaalice wrote: »

What is the tipping point.

The new children hospital has a big effect on properties in the area

What’s the story with house prices? Not the worst, but rising rapidly. The average asking price of a property in Rialto is €297,006 – well below the all-city average of roughly €410,000, according to Daft.ie. But prices in the area are increasing quickly, jumping by almost 20 per cent year on year.

https://www.thejournal.ie/rialto-neighbourhood-guide-3965096-Apr2018/

I almost guarantee that going back a few years on accommodation & property on board if someone had said they were thinking of buying in Rialto? Dolphins Barn, the responses would be its a terrible idea, the drugs, the antisocial behavior. The area is still the same discarded drug paraphilia down lanes ect.

What is the tipping point that makes that first-person take a chance on an area?

That article about Rialto is one year old and is also very misleading, unfortunately the area didnt take off at all, it's still very rough and intimidating. Looks like it was written buy someone who is trying to sell property in Rialto and is trying to dress its the reputaiton

Mic 1972

Mic 1972 wrote: »

That article about Rialto is one year old and is also very misleading, unfortunately, the area didnt take off at all, it's still very rough and intimidating. Looks like it was written buy someone who is trying to sell property in Rialto and is trying to dress its the reputaiton

Yes its a bit of puff piece, but my point is that property prices have increased because of the new children's hospital and the hospital is not even finished yet.

Not everywhere is going to end up as a hipster paradise.

Murt10

Old saying

You can do up your house, buy you can't do up your neighborhood.

I wouldn't want to live there for anything, far too many problems. If the area ever becomes a safe and desirable area to live in, it won't be in my lifetime.

20150221_USD002_0.jpg

brucky

I looked at Rialto 15 years ago. Fatima IMHO hasn't been a great success. Try the old CIE Works in Inchicore. Very quiet & very close to town. Surrounded by high granite walls.

Ciaranis

You're probably right. But I'd probably do no exercise if I didn't build it into my daily routine this way. I recommend it!

Nika Bolokov

It's more of a slow evolution OP.

Culturally prices in Rialto have been low as it was not seen as as desirable as elsewhere. People could buy in other places in Dublin and get the standard 3 bed semi.

Not the case now but people now instead of going to Rialto or Crumlin will pay similar or much more to go to a town in Meath and spend 4 hours a day commuting. I

It's part of the Irish mentality to be seen as respectable and Irish people will slowly destroy their health with monster commutes rather than buy somewhere central that doesn't sound as good even though there is rarely problems in most parts of areas seen as 'bad'.

If you could buy a house in say London that was ten minutes walk from Picadilly, even if there was daily knife fights on your door, it would cost a multiple of something that required a four hour commute. Not so in Ireland so Kildare and Meath becomes populated with people with Dublin accents as they are too good to live in the parts of Dublin they can afford.

Mad_maxx

Nika Bolokov wrote: »

It's more of a slow evolution OP.

Culturally prices in Rialto have been low as it was not seen as as desirable as elsewhere. People could buy in other places in Dublin and get the standard 3 bed semi.

Not the case now but people now instead of going to Rialto or Crumlin will pay similar or much more to go to a town in Meath and spend 4 hours a day commuting. I

It's part of the Irish mentality to be seen as respectable and Irish people will slowly destroy their health with monster commutes rather than buy somewhere central that doesn't sound as good even though there is rarely problems in most parts of areas seen as 'bad'.

If you could buy a house in say London that was ten minutes walk from Picadilly, even if there was daily knife fights on your door, it would cost a multiple of something that required a four hour commute. Not so in Ireland so Kildare and Meath becomes populated with people with Dublin accents as they are too good to live in the parts of Dublin they can afford.

We do nothing about crime here so people chose to live far away from it

JohnnyChimpo

mariaalice wrote: »

20150221_USD002_0.jpg

wow, deep

LirW

Nika Bolokov wrote: »

It's more of a slow evolution OP.

Culturally prices in Rialto have been low as it was not seen as as desirable as elsewhere. People could buy in other places in Dublin and get the standard 3 bed semi.

Not the case now but people now instead of going to Rialto or Crumlin will pay similar or much more to go to a town in Meath and spend 4 hours a day commuting. I

It's part of the Irish mentality to be seen as respectable and Irish people will slowly destroy their health with monster commutes rather than buy somewhere central that doesn't sound as good even though there is rarely problems in most parts of areas seen as 'bad'.

If you could buy a house in say London that was ten minutes walk from Picadilly, even if there was daily knife fights on your door, it would cost a multiple of something that required a four hour commute. Not so in Ireland so Kildare and Meath becomes populated with people with Dublin accents as they are too good to live in the parts of Dublin they can afford.

There are cheaper parts that are okay and people certainly misjudge it, but then there are parts of Dublin where you really have to think twice about buying there. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is. Finglas for example is a big area with parts that are okay and parts that you should really stay away from because it has too many problems.
Buying a house is the biggest financial investment most people make in their lives, I can't blame them for avoiding areas where severe problems are obvious.

As long as undesirables are getting away with their crimes and are free to wreck havoc in their local area with no consequences whatsoever, people will choose to move further out.
Have a look on AH, someone's planning to sell up, because local kids terrorise the family and there's 0 they can do about it.

I put this to someone who has a sensible head and their opinion was that while an area may be safe enough and settled in the general sense it can be stressful for some living somewhere colorful.

A lot of the areas gentrified in US cities where places with drive-by shootings and gang warfare yet someone took a chance on buying because it was cheap.

Soweto in Johannesburg has become gentrified and its still notoriously dangerous.

I'm not saying anyone should buy or even consider anywhere, its just a counterpoint to the negativity that a single person on an average salary could not afford anything in Dublin and a general point about how gentrification occurs.

Sleepy

Gentrification of an area takes decades and will typically be lead by landlords picking up cheap investment properties and leasing them to students or young professionals who are happy to put up with the colourful aspects of a neighbourhood because the rent is cheap and the location is within walking/cycling distance of college/work or on good public transport links that'll get them to their destination in under half an hour.

It's not so long ago that Rathmines was seen as a bit of a kip that was only suitable for students in bedsits / house-shares. If you'd been "brave" enough to pick up a property there in the 80s and had slowly done it up since then you could easily be sitting on a million euro house now.

Mongfinder General

LirW wrote: »

There are cheaper parts that are okay and people certainly misjudge it, but then there are parts of Dublin where you really have to think twice about buying there. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is. Finglas for example is a big area with parts that are okay and parts that you should really stay away from because it has too many problems.
Buying a house is the biggest financial investment most people make in their lives, I can't blame them for avoiding areas where severe problems are obvious.

As long as undesirables are getting away with their crimes and are free to wreck havoc in their local area with no consequences whatsoever, people will choose to move further out.
Have a look on AH, someone's planning to sell up, because local kids terrorise the family and there's 0 they can do about it.

Having spent a good bit of time in Finglas, I can tell you that what you’ve written isn’t too far from the truth.

Finglas East is best. Very little social housing and not much chance of it going in as the area is developed. You’d do well to pick up a home with mod cons for less than €300k. It’s a 20 mon cycle from O’Connell street.

Finglas West is hit and miss. It changes street by street. Mostly private dwellings but a lot of social problems around the Barry area.

Finglas South. This is the area with most problems, berryfield being the biggest problem area. Some serious criminality living in Finglas South but still nowhere near as bad as was in the last.

Finglas north has been developed in the last 10 years and is handy for the m50 and airport. The area has received a heavy influx of immigrants but this seems to cause no major issues. However, that part of finglas is split between Fingal and DCC and both have been slipping in 100% social housing developments. Most of these developments straddle poppintree ”(close to ikea). I have noticed in recent weeks the emergence of young kids between 8 and 12 roaming the streets after dark. Unless there is significant Garda presence in this area, social problems will increase.
So if you’re single and working 80 hours a week, finglas north might suit. As for raising a family there, I’d think twice

farmchoice

Sleepy wrote: »

Gentrification of an area takes decades and will typically be lead by landlords picking up cheap investment properties and leasing them to students or young professionals who are happy to put up with the colourful aspects of a neighbourhood because the rent is cheap and the location is within walking/cycling distance of college/work or on good public transport links that'll get them to their destination in under half an hour.

It's not so long ago that Rathmines was seen as a bit of a kip that was only suitable for students in bedsits / house-shares. If you'd been "brave" enough to pick up a property there in the 80s and had slowly done it up since then you could easily be sitting on a million euro house now.

ya i think that is the reality its not something that happens over the course of 3,7, or even 10 years.

i lived in stonybatter in 1995 and whilst there were definatly rougher parts of the north side it was pretty grim. it had nothing going for it, and walking home up north brunswick st at night was even on the best night a stressful walk.

Mad_maxx

farmchoice wrote: »

ya i think that is the reality its not something that happens over the course of 3,7, or even 10 years.

i lived in stonybatter in 1995 and whilst there were definatly rougher parts of the north side it was pretty grim. it had nothing going for it, and walking home up north brunswick st at night was even on the best night a stressful walk.

Top of oxmantown Road was until relatively recently seen as undesirable due to the proximity to O, devaney Gardens

Of course, there is a difference between buying as a family or a single woman in some areas versus say a 6ft male psychiatric nurse who looks like he can take care of himself.

Areas do change over time and sometimes those who took a chance on it have done very well for themselves.

Not driving is becoming a thing, the partner of one of my daughters dose not drive and he is a 37-year-old man and he has no intention of learning to drive either.

Public transport is going to be a really big thing with the next generation, so areas with good public transport will really benefit.

Zenify

Zenify wrote: »

Area will lose 2 extra points if horses are in fields or kids on scrambles.

Are you mad? 2 points? Either of those things takes 4 points if not more.

LirW

mariaalice wrote: »

Of course, there is a difference between buying as a family or a single woman in some areas versus say a 6ft male psychiatric nurse who looks like he can take care of himself.

Areas do change over time and sometimes those who took a chance on it have done very well for themselves.

Not driving is becoming a thing, the partner of one of my daughters dose not drive and he is a 37-year-old man and he has no intention of learning to drive either.

Public transport is going to be a really big thing with the next generation, so areas with good public transport will really benefit.

I mean, you're always going on about this gentrification by linking property in seriously bad parts of Dublin.
Why are you not going to take the leap?
I'm not trying to be a d1ck about it, really, I grew up in the worst parts of my hometown because we didn't have any money and I have a good tolerance. I'm really not too precious about it but I viewed houses in that area on Finglas you like to refer to and no way in hell I'd bring up my children there. Again, this is the biggest purchase people make, why would they compromise on a really bad area with a lot of social problems and gang criminality?
You admit that it might only be an option for a very small cohort of buyers, like a tall bulky guy. He's not going to gentrify an area. Gentrification takes a long time and plenty of attempts fail.
Also often successful gentrification often starts with artists relocating to cheap areas because large space is cheap to start studios and small businesses.

Instead of telling people to get over themselves and move to the most problematic parts of Dublin, why not demanding proper law enforcement instead so these areas become a bit more attractive?

handlemaster

LirW wrote: »

I mean, you're always going on about this gentrification by linking property in seriously bad parts of Dublin.
Why are you not going to take the leap?
I'm not trying to be a d1ck about it, really, I grew up in the worst parts of my hometown because we didn't have any money and I have a good tolerance. I'm really not too precious about it but I viewed houses in that area on Finglas you like to refer to and no way in hell I'd bring up my children there. Again, this is the biggest purchase people make, why would they compromise on a really bad area with a lot of social problems and hang criminality?
You admit that it might only be an option for a very small cohort of buyers, like a tall bulky guy. He's not going to gentrify an area. Gentrification takes a long time and plenty of attempts fail.
Also often successful gentrification often starts with artists relocating to cheap areas because large space is cheap to start studios and small businesses.

Instead of telling people to get over the

mselves and move to the most problematic parts of Dublin, why not demanding proper law enforcement instead so these areas become a bit more attractive?

Correct safety first