CCJ - attending as visitor?

Foweva Awone

I'm just wondering whether it is possible to view court proceedings in the CCJ as a member of the public? If so, does anyone know what times etc or any other relevant information about attending? There's no particular case I'm interested in, just want to get an overview of how it all works. Thanks!

nuac

Yes anyone may attend.
No notetaking recording nor photographs
Times are in Legal Diary

Irishphotodesk

Learning which court rooms have which cases will be important to exploring the CCJ.

If my memory is correct courts 1-4 have district court basic enough cases, drugs possession, Assaults, public order, thefts, robbery etc.

Ct5 will have more serious cases, ct8 will be mainly driving related cases, the 6th floor has special criminal court, it's the courtroom with people scanning you before you go in (and you can go in to look, mobile phones etc I think have to be left outside courtroom) , the murder/rape/sexual assault cases might be ct10-13ish, (if you see an "in camera" sign on the door you are not allowed in)

Enjoy exploring... It's actually kinda fun to see how dysfunctional the legal system is (if you sit in the district court cases you may begin to hear the same "mitigation" ... Suffers from alcohol/drug abuse, was abused , is expecting a child or has recently had one - wants the opportunity to mend their ways etc, is very remorseful for their actions but has no recollection of the event due to previously mentioned substance abuse) ..... Although in the run up to Christmas some of the regulars tend to want in (for the regular Meals and warm roof over their heads) so the excuses may not be used as much.

Samuel T. Cogley

nuac wrote: »

Yes anyone may attend.
No notetaking recording nor photographs
Times are in Legal Diary

Really, no notetaking?

ILikeBoats

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

Although in the run up to Christmas some of the regulars tend to want in (for the regular Meals and warm roof over their heads) so the excuses may not be used as much.

Really?!

Irishphotodesk

ILikeBoats wrote: »

Really?!

Yes, there are some people who will commit crimes in November and December - knowing that it will result in jail time over Christmas.

Mostly junkies .... it’s guaranteed home, guaranteed bed for the night, few square meals, some of the regulars have a better life inside than outside, the system has no place else to put them.

angel eyes 2012

nuac wrote: »

Yes anyone may attend.
No notetaking recording nor photographs
Times are in Legal Diary

District Court cases are not listed in the Legal Diary but generally District Court starts at 10.00 in the CCJ. Circuit and Central tend to start at 10.30 with some exceptions.

District Courts are located on the ground floor and generally they are the busiest and you see all walks of life before the court.

GM228

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

nuac wrote: »

Yes anyone may attend.
No notetaking recording nor photographs
Times are in Legal Diary

Really, no notetaking?

Order 123 (Superior Court Recording of Proceedings Order):-

2. At the trial or hearing of any cause or matter, any party may, with the Court’s permission and subject to and in accordance with any direction of the Court, make or cause to be made a record of the proceedings, which record shall (subject, in the case of criminal proceedings, to rule 14(2) of Order 86) include—

(a) the oral evidence;

(b) in the case of an action tried by a Judge and jury, the Judge’s charge and directions to the jury, and the submissions and requisitions made to the judge and his ruling thereon;

(c) in any case tried by a Judge without a jury, the Judge’s judgment (unless it be a written judgment).

<SNIP>

8. Unless

(a) otherwise permitted by and in accordance with this Order, or

(b) otherwise permitted by the Supreme Court or the Court and, in that event, subject to and in accordance with any direction of such court,

no person, other than the Courts Service or a person authorised by it on its behalf, shall make any record of proceedings otherwise than by written or shorthand notes

Order 125 (the Superior Courts Interpretation Order):-

““record” means a contemporaneous record of the proceedings concerned made by any one or more means, including, without limitation—

(a) any shorthand or other note, whether written, typed or printed, and

(b) any sound recording or other recording, capable of being reproduced in legible, audible or visual form, approved by the court

Similar provisions are provided for in the Circuit (Order 67A) and District (Order 12B) courts Recording of Proceedings Orders:-

Order 67A wrote:

3. The record of any criminal proceedings shall be made or caused to be made by a person appointed by the Courts Service, and such record shall include all submissions made by counsel in the course of the trial including opening and closing speeches to the jury and any submissions made in mitigation of sentence.

<SNIP>

7. Unless:

(a) otherwise permitted by and in accordance with this Order, or

(b) otherwise permitted by the Court and, in that event, subject to and in accordance with any direction of the Court,

no person, other than the Courts Service or a person authorised by it on its behalf, shall make any record of proceedings otherwise than by written or shorthand notes

Order 12B wrote:

3.The record of any criminal proceedings shall be made or caused to be made only by a person appointed by the Courts Service, and such record shall include all submissions made by counsel or solicitor in the course of the trial and any submissions made in mitigation of sentence.

4. Unless:

(a) otherwise permitted by and in accordance with this Order, or

(b) otherwise permitted by the Court and, in that event, subject to and in accordance with any direction of the Court,

no person, other than the Courts Service or a person authorised by it on its behalf, shall make any record of proceedings otherwise than by written or shorthand notes

Both Orders contain the exact same definition of "record" as in Order 125.

Marcusm

Both order 67A and order 12B seem to permit anyone to make written or shorthand notes.

“No person ... shall make any record ... otherwise than by written or shorthand notes”.

angel eyes 2012

Marcusm wrote: »

Both order 67A and order 12B seem to permit anyone to make written or shorthand notes.

“No person ... shall make any record ... otherwise than by written or shorthand notes”.

Yes, Order 123 of the Rules of the Superior Courts, Order 67A of the Circuit Court Rules and Order 12B of the District Court Rules restrict and regulate the recording, other than by the taking of written or shorthand notes, of court proceedings by persons other than the Courts Service.

Essentially, the Rules above were drafted when Digital Audio Recording facilities were introduced in the courts. Anyone can take written notes in a courtroom but you cannot make a recording using a device such as a mobile phone.

GM228

Marcusm wrote: »

Both order 67A and order 12B seem to permit anyone to make written or shorthand notes.

“No person ... shall make any record ... otherwise than by written or shorthand notes”.

Actually yes, that is exactly what they say.

coylemj

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

Yes, there are some people who will commit crimes in November and December - knowing that it will result in jail time over Christmas.

Mostly junkies .... it’s guaranteed home, guaranteed bed for the night, few square meals, some of the regulars have a better life inside than outside, the system has no place else to put them.

Not only junkies - a significant minority of the (teenage) residents of Oberstown House decline Christmas release because of the chaotic domestic situations they would have to go home to.

Richmond Ultra

Foweva Awone wrote: »

I'm just wondering whether it is possible to view court proceedings in the CCJ as a member of the public? If so, does anyone know what times etc or any other relevant information about attending? There's no particular case I'm interested in, just want to get an overview of how it all works. Thanks!

When your in there and unsure about what's on, where things are etc ask any of the Gardai/solicitors around and they normally help you out as best they can.

Foweva Awone

Thanks all for the advice. I went along yesterday afternoon and explained at the information desk why I was there, she was extremely helpful. I ended up sitting in on a murder case for a couple of hours, it was fascinating to see how it's all done and how much work is involved. I'm studying Criminology at the moment and I feel like seeing the process first-hand will really help me.