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Something to think about if you buy Nikes

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,420 ✭✭✭ sideswipe


    That's awful but not sure what difference it should make to my shoe choice?

    That girl was abused by Alberto Salazar and his program. Granted it's a Nike funded program and they should be more careful with who they get into bed with. Pull on any pair of shoes from any brand and there's probably ethical reasons why you shouldn't. Hell, most of them are probably made by kids in Asian sweatshops!


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,730 ✭✭✭✭ average_runner



    Not to make it a Nike bashing thread, but why were the older athletes standing by and letting this abuse happen?

    Where were the other coaches ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭ KSU


    Not to make it a Nike bashing thread, but why were the older athletes standing by and letting this abuse happen?

    Where were the other coaches ?

    Those athletes were subject to the same example Kara Goucher and the attempt to switch her Thyroid medication to lose “baby weight”

    In terms of coaches given how Magness became a pariah for a number of years so with Nike having a near monopoly on sponsorship at the time very hard to stand up and lose your only source of income in a sport where financial opportunities are hard to come by


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,420 ✭✭✭ sideswipe


    Not to make it a Nike bashing thread, but why were the older athletes standing by and letting this abuse happen?

    Where were the other coaches ?


    https://twitter.com/ShalaneFlanagan/status/1192453615287332864?s=20

    I guess people are accustomed to minding their own business.

    sometimes 'old school' coaching techniques take a while to be called out for what they are. Of course there is another side to the argument that suggests that the so called 'snowflake' generation (hate that expression) are too soft. That is definitely not the case here, Salazar stood and screamed at her in front of her team mates and competitors that she was too heavy and had put on 5lbs- that's an unforgivable thing to do to a young girl and should have been challenged by somebody.


  • Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭ KSU


    sideswipe wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/ShalaneFlanagan/status/1192453615287332864?s=20

    I guess people are accustomed to minding their own business.

    sometimes 'old school' coaching techniques take a while to be called out for what they are. Of course there is another side to the argument that suggests that the so called 'snowflake' generation (hate that expression) are too soft. That is definitely not the case here, Salazar stood and screamed at her in front of her team mates and competitors that she was too heavy and had put on 5lbs- that's an unforgivable thing to do to a young girl and should have been challenged by somebody.

    Though Shalane was a Nike athlete she was part of the Bowerman TC not the NOP so nothing to do with Salazar’s group and to be honest with all bad blood between the coaches so there was no overlap between the groups


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,420 ✭✭✭ sideswipe


    KSU wrote: »
    Though Shalane was a Nike athlete she was part of the Bowerman TC not the NOP so nothing to do with Salazar’s group and to be honest with all bad blood between the coaches so there was no overlap between the groups

    She feels remorse for seeing her struggling and not reaching out on a human level, regardless of coaching group.


  • Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭ KSU


    sideswipe wrote: »
    She feels remorse for seeing her struggling and not reaching out on a human level, regardless of coaching group.

    Sorry I picked up wrong I thought you meant about people minding their own business day to day in the group.

    Agree Shalane prob only saw the struggling performances and the emotion that goes with that rather than the actual abuse that went on day to day


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭ BDI


    How he could treat somebodies child like that is beyond me. When she told the psychologist she was cutting herself he told her her he wanted to go to bed.
    Poor girl.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,730 ✭✭✭✭ average_runner


    sideswipe wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/ShalaneFlanagan/status/1192453615287332864?s=20

    I guess people are accustomed to minding their own business.

    sometimes 'old school' coaching techniques take a while to be called out for what they are. Of course there is another side to the argument that suggests that the so called 'snowflake' generation (hate that expression) are too soft. That is definitely not the case here, Salazar stood and screamed at her in front of her team mates and competitors that she was too heavy and had put on 5lbs- that's an unforgivable thing to do to a young girl and should have been challenged by somebody.

    He singled her out in the weigh ins with other athletes present. There were athletes present and they didnt help her.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 17,803 CMod ✭✭✭✭ The Black Oil


    That's the saddest thing I've read and watched in a while around sports. Good luck to her.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,420 ✭✭✭ sideswipe


    He singled her out in the weigh ins with other athletes present. There were athletes present and they didnt help her.

    Presumably those other athletes were young and felt privileged to be on a highly desirable program with one of the worlds most renowned coaches. I’m not sure it’s fair to point the finger at them for not speaking up. It’s always easy in hindsight. They would have been subject to the same unfair treatment in terms of expectation of weight control etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 933 ✭✭✭ jamule


    I heard there was one of her team mates shouting at her 'eat quorn ya fat bitch'


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,316 ✭✭✭ Ceepo


    Are we really surprised that this happened, and indeed was let happen.

    Unfortunately there are some people in authority who are bullies. I sure we all know someone that we worked with at some point, or seen at the local Gaa/soccor/rugby etc training session.
    You know the "ruthless coach type".
    I know I've seen I've few times. Did I stand up to stop it... no i didnt at the time. Why? .. well the same reason that the bullies get away with it in the 1st place, Fear.
    Do you think that others would have stood up to him and risk getting "cut" from the squad.?
    I'm sure sitting here typing this I would have told that pr/ck where to go. The big difference now is that if I did it wouldn't have any impact on my life. If I was 18 and wanted to be "the best runner in the world" I'm sure I would have been scared sh1tless.
    Doesn't it make it right, .But it does make it understandable as to why he was let get away with it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,730 ✭✭✭✭ average_runner


    Ceepo wrote: »
    Are we really surprised that this happened, and indeed was let happen.

    Unfortunately there are some people in authority who are bullies. I sure we all know someone that we worked with at some point, or seen at the local Gaa/soccor/rugby etc training session.
    You know the "ruthless coach type".
    I know I've seen I've few times. Did I stand up to stop it... no i didnt at the time. Why? .. well the same reason that the bullies get away with it in the 1st place, Fear.
    Do you think that others would have stood up to him and risk getting "cut" from the squad.?
    I'm sure sitting here typing this I would have told that pr/ck where to go. The big difference now is that if I did it wouldn't have any impact on my life. If I was 18 and wanted to be "the best runner in the world" I'm sure I would have been scared sh1tless.
    Doesn't it make it right, .But it does make it understandable as to why he was let get away with it.

    He shouted at her at her at a meet about not losing weight. Other athletes were present. She didnt race junior .
    A race director confirm this, all on letsrun.
    He regretted not saying something.

    Salazar had a bad power over people, young and old


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,420 ✭✭✭ sideswipe


    He shouted at her at her at a meet about not losing weight. Other athletes were present. She didnt race junior .
    A race director confirm this, all on letsrun.
    He regretted not saying something.

    Salazar had a bad power over people, young and old

    You seem to be suggesting other people are defending him and others around the situation....nobody is. He was totally out of order and abusive of his position. Of course somebody should of said something, nobody is denying that in the slightest. I just think expecting other athletes to do so isn't quite as straight forward weather they are 16 or 26. Other coaches and race directors are different of course and as you say they are not without regret for not saying something. What this case highlights is maybe next time something like this happens somebody will remember her story and shout stop.



    https://twitter.com/stevemagness/status/1192634360941465605?s=20


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,730 ✭✭✭✭ average_runner


    sideswipe wrote: »
    You seem to be suggesting other people are defending him and others around the situation....nobody is. He was totally out of order and abusive of his position. Of course somebody should of said something, nobody is denying that in the slightest. I just think expecting other athletes to do so isn't quite as straight forward weather they are 16 or 26. Other coaches and race directors are different of course and as you say they are not without regret for not saying something. What this case highlights is maybe next time something like this happens somebody will remember her story and shout stop.



    https://twitter.com/stevemagness/status/1192634360941465605?s=20

    I think you forgot to read my last line


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,316 ✭✭✭ Ceepo


    He shouted at her at her at a meet about not losing weight. Other athletes were present. She didnt race junior .
    A race director confirm this, all on letsrun.
    He regretted not saying something.

    Salazar had a bad power over people, young and old

    I'm certainly not defending him.
    Salazar is/was an egotistical bully....
    I dont think any one should be surprised by this


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,730 ✭✭✭✭ average_runner


    Ceepo wrote: »
    I'm certainly not defending him.
    Salazar is/was an egotistical bully....
    I dont think any one should be surprised by this




    Not accusing anyone of defending him, he had a presence that gave fear to people


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,316 ✭✭✭ Ceepo


    Not accusing anyone of defending him, he had a presence that gave fear to people

    Apologies if I picked you up wrong


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,420 ✭✭✭ sideswipe


    I think you forgot to read my last line

    How do you figure that? Of course I read it. I don't get your point?

    Steve Magness is saying people need to speak out now in much the same way as the MeToo campaign. To acknowledge and call out wrong doing so it doesn't happen again, in other words learn from mistakes.
    Being angry and outraged is only useful if used to instigate change so these things don't happen in future.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭ NSAman


    Unfortunately, it’s top tier coaching in the US, I’m sure many more stories like this exist.

    Basically, kids are owned by the “program” they sign up to (I.e. universities)

    Salazar is/was a top coach, anything can be bought with enough money. Nike as an organisation are a company I personally would have NOTHING to do with (I have worked with them in the past). Corporate greed and the dehumanisation of individuals is something that came to mind during that period of work.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,730 ✭✭✭✭ average_runner


    sideswipe wrote: »
    How do you figure that? Of course I read it. I don't get your point?

    Steve Magness is saying people need to speak out now in much the same way as the MeToo campaign. To acknowledge and call out wrong doing so it doesn't happen again, in other words learn from mistakes.
    Being angry and outraged is only useful if used to instigate change so these things don't happen in future.




    Because you thought I said people were defending Salazar, when I clearly pointed out that Salazar had a influential power over people at NOP.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,420 ✭✭✭ sideswipe


    Because you thought I said people were defending Salazar, when I clearly pointed out that Salazar had a influential power over people at NOP.


    There is no argument here a_r. I agree with you on everything you’ve said, my only caveat was it’s hard and unfair to retroactively blame people for not speaking up. It seems NOP was basically run as a cult, not an easy situation to stand up to.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,730 ✭✭✭✭ average_runner


    sideswipe wrote: »
    There is no argument here a_r. I agree with you on everything you’ve said, my only caveat was it’s hard and unfair to retroactively blame people for not speaking up. It seems NOP was basically run as a cult, not an easy situation to stand up to.

    And I think there will be more to come sadly


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,316 ✭✭✭ Ceepo


    Similar to Shane Sutton a few years ago

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/37804761


  • Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭ KSU


    I remember thinking this wasn't a great thing for a coach to say at the time but given the context of everything makes it so much worse

    (Timestamp 02.59)

    https://www.flotrack.org/video/5480164-best-raceworkout-combo-of-your-life-jordan-hasay-mary-cain-workout-wednesday


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