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Luas to UCD

  • 02-11-2019 1:09pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 920 Last Stop


    A Luas line to UCD would run from the Harcourt Luas stop, along Adelaide Rd, Lesson St through Donnybrook along the N11 to UCD.
    The section from Donnybrook to UCD would run in the central median and could be either elevated or in a cut like the metro along the R132. This section could be future proofed to allow for upgrade to metro in future.
    The route is 4km so would cost €160-€240m.

    A second phase could run from UCD along the alignment of the eastern bypass to Sandyford, reducing demand on the green line which would facilitate the closure of the green line to upgrade it to metro.
    Busconnects is proposing 35 buses between UCD and the city centre which would suggest a tram frequency of around 9 minutes.

    The line would remove the need for the Busconnects B corridor between UCD and the city centre which would save in the region of €100m.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,816 ✭✭✭ donvito99


    Last Stop wrote: »

    The line would remove the need for the Busconnects B corridor between UCD and the city centre which would save in the region of €100m.

    What about everybody south of UCD on the N11.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭ strassenwo!f


    I think there are some things in here worth looking at.

    A spur between the Green LUAS along Adelaide Road to/from Baggot Street Bridge (and perhaps beyond, to/from somewhere like Grand Canal Dock) has been mentioned several times on the various metrolink threads. Others mentioned at as a way to use the 'rump' LUAS in the days when it looked like the Green LUAS was going to be replaced, and I was (and am) very much for it as a way of using the Green LUAS south of the canal to its full capacity over the coming decades.

    Building something like this would almost certainly involve the welcome demolition of the derelict building at the corner of Peter Place and Adelaide Road. I have also suggested, on this board, that this whole process could be made even more effective by construction of a road underpass (common in other cities) linking Fitzwilliam Place and perhaps Harrington Street.

    This would have the effect of enabling 30tph (if required) along the southside Green LUAS to Charlemont, at peak times, comprising a 20tph service (as now) to/from the city centre, and a 10 tph peak time service to/from Baggot Street Bridge, which is an important locus at those peak times.

    Last Stop's new proposal, again of a tram line including a stretch along Adelaide Road, could fit in nicely here, as some kind of triangular junction around Harcourt Road could allow a variety of journeys to happen.
    Last Stop wrote: »
    A Luas line to UCD would run from the Harcourt Luas stop, along Adelaide Rd, Lesson St through Donnybrook along the N11 to UCD.
    The section from Donnybrook to UCD would run in the central median and could be either elevated or in a cut like the metro along the R132. This section could be future proofed to allow for upgrade to metro in future.
    The route is 4km so would cost €160-€240m.

    I would see a number of difficulties here, though perhaps they are not insurmountable. Firstly, the bridge at Leeson Street. Would the trams in Dublin be capable of negotiating such a bridge on a turn, with the gradients involved? Secondly, the section between Leeson Street Bridge and Donnybrook includes a number of major junctions, with right turns, etc. And then, thirdly, Donnybrook itself, where the road is very tight as far as the river. It is hard to envisage all of this managing cyclists on both sides, one lane of car traffic on both sides, and a LUAS.

    Perhaps the city might find something innovative in the redevelopment of Kiely's derelict pub, the crumbling ex-AIB building on that stretch and the large area occupied by the petrol station on the other side to deliver something interesting for Donnybrook. I think it's certainly worth a good look. On the northern part of that stretch, outside that good chipper, there is section of car parking which isn't obviously necessary, at least to the non-local, like me.

    Donnybrook is indeed an area which is remote from the DART and the LUAS; obviously it has a wonderful service into and out of town from the 46A, but there is scope for wondering, in the long term, whether the buses on the 46A route need to fulfil both (i) an orbital route function between Dun Laoghaire (with its DART service) and the N11, and (ii) a direct into/out of town function bringing some of those and many others along the N11, if a LUAS or metro option were eventually there on the N11.

    Although the bit between the Canal and the the Dodder could present the above problems, and probably more when the locals get involved, in the bit after the Dodder in Donnybrook there seems to be scope to pretty much sail along, overground, along the N11.
    Last Stop wrote: »
    A second phase could run from UCD along the alignment of the eastern bypass to Sandyford, reducing demand on the green line which would facilitate the closure of the green line to upgrade it to metro.
    Busconnects is proposing 35 buses between UCD and the city centre which would suggest a tram frequency of around 9 minutes.

    If a LUAS could be got to UCD, why not just continue out along the N11? Why this fixation with Sandyford? At every new stretch you'd be reducing demand on the Green LUAS (And the DART). For example, if you extended it to Stillorgan along the N11 you'd have a whole load of passengers from one end of Stillorgan who would no longer need to use the Green LUAS (they currently do, because it's the quickest alternative) to get to where they want to go, which is mostly into town. If they want to go to another location on the same side of the city, like Sandyford, there could be a ready realignment of bus services to take them there.

    Continuing on, at Newtownpark Avenue you'd have another large group of passengers who would then wish to use an N11 LUAS rather than walk all the way to the Green LUAS, or the DART, as they are currently doing.

    And, et cetera, on to Cherrywood, again helping to reduce demand on the Green line.

    There should be no reason, over the next 20-30 years, why Dublin should need to close down the Green LUAS south of the canal for longer than a weekend (to accomodate construction of a LUAS along Adelaide Road (or somesuch project). Or maybe 3-4 weekends if they decided to incorporate a road underpass in or around Harcourt Road.

    The answer, as has been seen in so many other cities, even if you only look at European ones, is to build more metro lines in different diections (where they can) or tram lines (where they are appropriate), to increase competition between those lines and reduce pressure on any one line.

    Like a metro to Firhouse, etc., where no overground LUAS line readily presents itself, and obviously an underground metro is the solution, an N11 LUAS would also reduce pressure on the current Green LUAS south of the canal, and I would welcome it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 920 Last Stop


    donvito99 wrote: »
    What about everybody south of UCD on the N11.

    The B corridor doesn’t go further south than UCD?

    The E spine could still be maintained south of UCD and would presumably have a significantly decreased demand between UCD to city centre


  • Registered Users Posts: 920 Last Stop


    sugarman wrote: »
    Speaking from experience, most people traveling to / from UCD via the City Centre only do so because of the severe lack of orbital routes and the poor reliability of the ones that already exist.

    With Bus Connections, hopefully that can remove that need for the majority.

    A Luas system just creates the same problem and doesn't serve anyone beyond UCD.

    UCD has a population of 30,000 between students and staff.
    Most of them are not travelling via the city centre because of the lack of orbital routes on the south side. Most of them are travelling via the city centre because they either live there or further north which orbital routes won’t solve as it will be quicker to go via the city centre.

    Under Busconnects, the proposal is for a specific corridor (B) between UCD and the city centre as well as the E corridor along the N11. If it was just the E spine you may have a point but the fact they are proposing 15 buses between UCD and the city centre suggests there is demand.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭✭✭ SortCrude


    It would make use of the remaining Luas section of the green line once the green line has been upgraded to Metro. I'm not sure where it would fall in the queue of infrastructure project priorities.

    Pro tip: Use the 'Snipping tool' that comes with Windows 10 for crayon diagrams, then upload for us to see with imagetitan.com


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  • Registered Users Posts: 920 Last Stop


    SortCrude wrote: »
    It would make use of the remaining Luas section of the green line once the green line has been upgraded to Metro. I'm not sure where it would fall in the queue of infrastructure project priorities.

    Exactly this. Long term, the service pattern would be Broomsbridge-UCD with a small number Parnell-Beechwood (as Ranelagh isn’t getting a metro stop).

    Given the priority of Busconnects and the fact that this especially replaces the need for one of the corridors under that, I think it could be pushed up the priority list.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭✭✭ SortCrude


    I don't think this is a valid alternative to the BusConnects corridor (in terms of priority, or cost savings), but it's an idea worth thinking about in the long term. A Metro, Dart and additional Luas line in south Dublin would allow urban sprawl all the way out to Bray.


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