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Why no early Dublin Buses for Dublin Marathon?

  • 23-10-2019 8:50pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 4,674 ✭✭✭ thomasj
    Registered User


    I know this goes deeper with lack of early Sunday Morning services, but it's bizarre that for the Marathon itself there are no earlier Dublin Bus services.

    Start time is at 8.45am but the earliest of the major bus routes is 8am.

    Irish rail have services running at 7am , luas too but for anyone else, it seems taxi is the best option.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭ LeinsterDub
    Registered User


    The timetable is the timetable the NTA don't change it for one off events. Probably because it would be a massive success and they'd have to do it all the time and couldn't afford it


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,674 ✭✭✭ thomasj
    Registered User


    But then how come the extra 7am trains?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭ pm1977x
    Registered User


    Northside Darts stopping at Connolly and Southside Darts stopping at...Dun Laoghaire due to works, beggars belief.



    Then again, Sunday service from the Southside only starts after 9 anyway so it's bad enough normally.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭ LeinsterDub
    Registered User


    thomasj wrote: »
    But then how come the extra 7am trains?

    IE have a history of running specials


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,674 ✭✭✭ thomasj
    Registered User


    pm1977x wrote: »
    Northside Darts stopping at Connolly and Southside Darts stopping at...Dun Laoghaire due to works, beggars belief.



    Then again, Sunday service from the Southside only starts after 9 anyway so it's bad enough normally.


    Yeah sorry no earlier Southside train. But previously there would have been a 7amish service from Bray for the Marathon.

    The earlier services are from drogheda , longford (maynooth) and howth


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,484 ✭✭✭✭ Jamie2k9
    Registered User


    Dublin Bus have no interest in running the extra services. Its just easy to say its the NTA fault.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭ LeinsterDub
    Registered User


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Dublin Bus have no interest in running the extra services. Its just easy to say its the NTA fault.

    The NTA control their timetables are far as I know it is the NTAs fault


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,484 ✭✭✭✭ Jamie2k9
    Registered User


    The NTA control their timetables are far as I know it is the NTAs fault

    No it's not the NTA's fault. DB could operate a couple of specials, lets face it demand is there.

    Irish Rail are running specials and they are likely commercially and not NTA funded. Running ex Longford at 05.55 on a Sunday, in 2018 they only ran from Maynooth.

    Now it might be operationally convenient for them this year however I think its a very positive change from them.
    .
    This is a DB failing not NTA.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 114 ✭✭ Joker2019
    Banned


    The NTA control their timetables are far as I know it is the NTAs fault

    No DB still set their own timetables but they have to be approved by the NTA. The NTA only decide the timetables for GAI atm.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 114 ✭✭ Joker2019
    Banned


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    No it's not the NTA's fault. DB could operate a couple of specials, lets face it demand is there.

    Irish Rail are running specials and they are likely commercially and not NTA funded. Running ex Longford at 05.55 on a Sunday, in 2018 they only ran from Maynooth.

    Now it might be operationally convenient for them this year however I think its a very positive change from them.
    .
    This is a DB failing not NTA.

    Not much point would likely cost more in overtime than the revenue it would bring in unless they ran in a similar manner to the likes of their Slane shuttles at a higher fare which would probably reduce demand. Would have to seek permission from the NTA if they wanted to run regular scheduled services earlier than usual.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,484 ✭✭✭✭ Jamie2k9
    Registered User


    Joker2019 wrote: »
    Not much point would likely cost more in overtime than the revenue it would bring in unless they ran in a similar manner to the likes of their Slane shuttles at a higher fare which would probably reduce demand. Would have to seek permission from the NTA if they wanted to run regular scheduled services earlier than usual.

    It's costs IE a lot as well and they probably operate at a heavy loss but still do it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭ LeinsterDub
    Registered User


    Joker2019 wrote: »
    No DB still set their own timetables but they have to be approved by the NTA. The NTA only decide the timetables for GAI atm.

    That's a fairly hair splitting in fairness. The NTA have the final say which is all that matters really


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭ IE 222
    Registered User


    Would most of the streets not be closed.

    I'd imagine it would be an operational nightmare for DB in fairness. IE and Luas only need a handful of drivers to do this with no diversions in place. DB on the other hand would probably need about an extra 40-50 drivers to cover it presuming it would be more than 1 earlier departure on each of the main routes. That means having another 50 or so buses ready to be on the road.

    The drivers would only be required for a couple of hours. Are they going to get the required number of drivers in for 2-3 hours overtime at 6am on a bank holiday Sunday.

    Anyway, what harm will an extra few kilometres jogging do. At they'll have their warm up done by the time they get there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭ Isambard
    Registered User


    you'd think they'd be running (ba'dum tish)


  • Registered Users Posts: 785 ✭✭✭ SeeMoreBut
    Registered User


    How many people would get the bus?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,597 ✭✭✭ Xterminator
    Registered User


    thomasj wrote: »
    I know this goes deeper with lack of early Sunday Morning services, but it's bizarre that for the Marathon itself there are no earlier Dublin Bus services.

    Start time is at 8.45am but the earliest of the major bus routes is 8am.

    Im sure the DB drivers and their unions would love to tear up the sunday roster agreements and provide an out of hours service for no extra pay? Or perhaps the extra costs could be covered by ... the marathon fairy? /s

    No seriously - Dublin bus and other providers do run private hire buses. the estimated numbers running this year are 22,500 and 5000 of those are form overseas. for of the remaining 17,500 runners we could estimate maybe 40-50 percent are from dublin, and current car ownership in urban areas is 76.6 %.

    so we are talking approx 4000 people from all over dublin is the rough estimate of the public transport market. how many of those can/will use alternative tranport, like luas and dart, lifts, cycling etc? DB would be running a full range of service to cater to approx 2000 people or so? Not really feasible.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭ LeinsterDub
    Registered User


    No seriously - Dublin bus and other providers do run private hire buses. the estimated numbers running this year are 22,500 and 5000 of those are form overseas. for of the remaining 17,500 runners we could estimate maybe 40-50 percent are from dublin, and current car ownership in urban areas is 76.6 %.

    so we are talking approx 4000 people from all over dublin is the rough estimate of the public transport market. how many of those can/will use alternative tranport, like luas and dart, lifts, cycling etc? DB would be running a full range of service to cater to approx 2000 people or so? Not really feasible.

    Siri show me in one post the logic the leads to bus services not being used or being improved


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,597 ✭✭✭ Xterminator
    Registered User


    nope just saying to roster all the dublin bus services to run early on one Sunday for 2k people is not feasible, economically. Not saying private hire bus services shouldn't be put on, just that it does not merit the expenditure to run public buses paid for by the public purse.

    The marathon organizers could run private buses from regional hubs to start line, if the demand was there. God knows they went to the trouble of arranging subsidized parking, for their patrons.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭ LeinsterDub
    Registered User


    nope just saying to roster all the dublin bus services to run early on one Sunday for 2k people is not feasible, economically. Not saying private hire bus services shouldn't be put on, just that it does not merit the expenditure to run public buses paid for by the public purse.

    The marathon organizers could run private buses from regional hubs to start line, if the demand was there. God knows they went to the trouble of arranging subsidized parking, for their patrons.

    Build it and they will come . Run a bus and it will be used


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,597 ✭✭✭ Xterminator
    Registered User


    Let the people using it, pay for it, and i'm in!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭ dashcamdanny
    Registered User


    Its not up the the NTA or Dublin bus to provide transport for a one off events.


    Its the responsibility of the organizers of the marathon.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,052 ✭✭✭✭ Del2005
    Registered User


    Build it and they will come . Run a bus and it will be used

    Why didn't the organiser's do it then? They know where everyone is coming from so could organise pick up points.

    Would DB have enough drivers with hours to cover the early start of routes for one full load ? Why should DB employees have to give up their bank holiday weekend if they are lucky to get it off? There's plenty of private coaches that the organisers could have hired.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭ sharper
    Registered User


    Its not up the the NTA or Dublin bus to provide transport for a one off events.

    If Dublin Bus knows there's going to be a lot of demand to go from A to B on a given day it's surely an opportunity to get some revenue or provide a service.

    It's a little bit fascinating the way Irish semi states are simultaneously uninterested in either making money (because losses are irrelevant to them) or in their own remit (because it's impossible to hold them to account).

    The simple answer is they don't do it because it would be extra work and why bother?

    What's the point in mass transit that cares nothing about demand and considers events someone else's problem to solve?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,484 ✭✭✭✭ Jamie2k9
    Registered User


    All I see here is excuses, DB could provide one or two extra service from 07.00/07.30 on a couple of core bus routes. They would be staff wiling to operate them.

    It's just a case of CIE not wanting to provide a service for the public outside of there obligations.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,597 ✭✭✭ Xterminator
    Registered User


    no they couldn't'!. dublin bus provide the services they are contracted to supply to the NTA; and DB are paid on the basis that they provide this service.

    If they suddenly decided to run these bank holiday services for the marathon they would not get a penny of any money collected in fares. The NTA get the revenue.

    The KBC dublin marathon could organise coaches - and if enough people asked them to it would be done next year. But dublin bus wouldn't have any role in deciding the policy.

    There are enough real issues to berate DB about, but this isn't one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,484 ✭✭✭✭ Jamie2k9
    Registered User


    bighilda wrote: »
    1, if driver is working in the morning , guess what? They cannot have a drink the night before, so who the hell is going to get up early on one of their rare Sundays off and go to work for 2-3 hours?
    2, The NTA are the one's who decide service levels, nothing to do with DB., Naturally you wont let your ignorance of facts in the way of bashing DB
    Think before you post nonsense on here, supposed to be posters round here with a bit of transport knowledge, then start posting like it!

    1. Are you implying all DB drivers off Sundays have drinks on a Saturday night. Plenty of drivers have every Sunday off..
    2. DB can approach the NTA and say they want to run them commercially or open dialog about the general issue of services during certain events and explore the business case. DB have not done this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭ sharper
    Registered User


    bighilda wrote: »
    DB cannot put on extra services without the permission of the NTA.
    If you want extra services dont ask DB , ask the NTA, they make all the decisions

    I'm not an expert on the transport legal framework in Ireland but my understanding is the NTA are responsible for PSO routes and set the timetable. Dublin Bus additionally run commercial services like Airlink which are not connected to the NTA.

    If this isn't the case and Dublin Bus cannot run any bus for any reason without permission from the NTA then I don't understand what distinction exists between the NTA and Dublin Bus.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,880 ✭✭✭ markpb
    Registered User


    If they suddenly decided to run these bank holiday services for the marathon they would not get a penny of any money collected in fares. The NTA get the revenue.

    I didn't think that was true. I thought DB were still on a PSO model where the keep the farebox revenue and are paid a PSO?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,597 ✭✭✭ Xterminator
    Registered User


    its not crystal clear but i think in 2018 that was correct. i read somewhere they were signing a 2019-2024 contract with NTA - i haven't seen anything in the news etc. to confirm a change.

    with regards to marathon buses, they wouldn't be over subscribed because they were not planned and advertised via dublin marathon website, advertising etc. No extra PSO would be forthcoming if they did run the bus services early to cover the running costs.

    so this would have to be arranged via DB commercial (or any other private hire bus provider) and that would be a matter for the city marathon organisers.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,981 ✭✭✭ Tombo2001
    Registered User


    Bus Connects promises more buses on a Sunday amongst other things.

    You might remember that when everyone is shouting it down.


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