Covering the cost of childcare/going back to work

PrideandLuna

I’m just wondering if anyone can explain to me how they juggle wages with the cost of childcare?
I’m in my 30s and have a 2yo. I have given my husband my tax free allowance so my earnings will all now be taxed at 40%? He earns 40k pa.
I have priced local crèches and they range from €1190-€1250
I have a business degree and 10 years work experience but in a fairly niche industry- very few jobs atm. I have been looking at jobs that suit my skill base and they are all advertised most are about 30k some up to 40k all are about an hour commute there and back (I only mention it as a cost)

My husband wants me to go back to work so that we can be more comfortable financially and obviously in case anything happens to his job. I love staying at home but I also miss some of the benefits of working socially and having my own money of course!

But honestly I’m struggling to see how i would be left with anything at the end of the month?

Am I missing something? Surely everyone isn’t out there working for nothing...
Is there more tax relief that i would be entitled to?

OMM 0000

You go back to work part-time doing something unrelated to your current job, like waitressing on a Thursday and Friday night.

Obviously it makes no sense to put your kids in the arms of a stranger where they'll be less happy, work all week, and have almost nothing to show for it.

eviltwin

It gets easier and cheaper once they start school. That's why so many parents work just to pay the crèche. Long term its worth it to keep up your experience and not have that gap on the cv.

OMM 0000

It's absolutely not worth it "long term".

Have you ever compared kids who are stuck in a creche all day with kids who are at home with a parent or family member?

There is a drastic happiness / behaviour difference.

Your kids happiness and well being is much more important than avoiding gaps on your CV.

eviltwin

OMM 0000 wrote: »

It's absolutely not worth it "long term".

Have you ever compared kids who are stuck in a creche all day with kids who are at home with a parent or family member?

There is a drastic happiness / behaviour difference.

Your kids happiness and well being is much more important than avoiding gaps on your CV.

I don't believe that you have any right to comment on families you know nothing about and the OP didn't post looking for a debate just advice.

jon1981

Also it makes sense if you consider your pension. Waiting for the child to go to school will see you miss out on 5 yrs pension contributions.

C3PO

OMM 0000 wrote: »

It's absolutely not worth it "long term".

Have you ever compared kids who are stuck in a creche all day with kids who are at home with a parent or family member?

There is a drastic happiness / behaviour difference.

Your kids happiness and well being is much more important than avoiding gaps on your CV.

This is complete nonsense and not backed up by the facts!

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/children-in-creches-fare-as-well-as-those-at-home-1.2851225

Mrs OBumble

You have 10 years experience, and still only earning 30k? Something really isn't adding up there.

Maybe look for a self-employment business that you can run from home.

Like a previous poster, I'm no advocate of putting under 3's into baby-warehouses. If you really need childcare (and some wormen really do), at least use a home-based carer.

jon1981

OMM 0000 wrote: »

It's absolutely not worth it "long term".

Have you ever compared kids who are stuck in a creche all day with kids who are at home with a parent or family member?

There is a drastic happiness / behaviour difference.

Your kids happiness and well being is much more important than avoiding gaps on your CV.

How dare you cast such an inaccurate assertion!! Very unhelpful. My daughter adores her creche. She bounces into the place with happiness every morning. Her social skills are amazing due to interaction with other kids and caring workers.

OMM 0000

eviltwin wrote: »

I don't believe that you have any right to comment on families you know nothing about

Pretty sure it's legal and not against any boards.ie rules.

OMM 0000

C3PO wrote: »

This is complete nonsense and not backed up by the facts!

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/children-in-creches-fare-as-well-as-those-at-home-1.2851225

Thanks for the link.

My opinion is based on an ex who was a Montessori teacher and hung out with a group of other Montessori teachers (all from the same college).

It was a conversation they would regularly have - how the kids full-time in a Montessori (and creche) had much more behaviour problems and were far less happy than the kids who were only there for the morning, or one or two days a week.

It was consistent.

I know, of course, parents who have their kids in Montessoris or creches will need to deny this, as obviously it is too painful to admit they may be choosing their career over their kids happiness.

I know there are exceptions.

I've stated my point. I'm not going to waste time with anyone who wants me to repeat this over and over.

jon1981

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I've stated my point. I'm not going to waste time with anyone who wants me to repeat this over and over.

Thank you, we'll ignore ESRI research and back your sample size of 1 research.

Now run along, you'll do us a favour.

C3PO

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I've stated my point. I'm not going to waste time with anyone who wants me to repeat this over and over.

Actually, I have no interest in hearing you repeating your point ... I would much prefer you to retract it!

eviltwin

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Thanks for the link.

My opinion is based on an ex who was a Montessori teacher and hung out with a group of other Montessori teachers (all from the same college).

It was a conversation they would regularly have - how the kids full-time in a Montessori (and creche) had much more behaviour problems and were far less happy than the kids who were only there for the morning, or one or two days a week.

It was consistent.

I know, of course, parents who have their kids in Montessoris or creches will need to deny this, as obviously it is too painful to admit they may be choosing their career over their kids happiness.

I know there are exceptions.

I've stated my point. I'm not going to waste time with anyone who wants me to repeat this over and over.

If you want to argue that we should all quit work jog on to AH. This is a work and jobs forum so it's pretty obvious the post isn't about you using your non existing experience to tell her what is right or wrong for her family. She's asked a question, she does not have to justify her decision to anyone here.

Millem

PrideandLuna wrote: »

I’m just wondering if anyone can explain to me how they juggle wages with the cost of childcare?
I’m in my 30s and have a 2yo. I have given my husband my tax free allowance so my earnings will all now be taxed at 40%? He earns 40k pa.
I have priced local crèches and they range from €1190-€1250
I have a business degree and 10 years work experience but in a fairly niche industry- very few jobs atm. I have been looking at jobs that suit my skill base and they are all advertised most are about 30k some up to 40k all are about an hour commute there and back (I only mention it as a cost)

My husband wants me to go back to work so that we can be more comfortable financially and obviously in case anything happens to his job. I love staying at home but I also miss some of the benefits of working socially and having my own money of course!

But honestly I’m struggling to see how i would be left with anything at the end of the month?

Am I missing something? Surely everyone isn’t out there working for nothing...
Is there more tax relief that i would be entitled to?

There is a new childcare scheme coming in after Halloween.

Mrs OBumble

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Thanks for the link.

My opinion is based on an ex who was a Montessori teacher and hung out with a group of other Montessori teachers (all from the same college).

It was a conversation they would regularly have - how the kids full-time in a Montessori (and creche) had much more behaviour problems and were far less happy than the kids who were only there for the morning, or one or two days a week.

It was consistent.

I know, of course, parents who have their kids in Montessoris or creches will need to deny this, as obviously it is too painful to admit they may be choosing their career over their kids happiness.

I know there are exceptions.

I've stated my point. I'm not going to waste time with anyone who wants me to repeat this over and over.

Every early childhood teacher I've ever met has refused to put their own under 3 year olds into centre-based childcare. Sample size well into the dozens.

The research is a lot more nuanced than many credit: comparing like with like is virtually impossible to research because genuine random selection is virtually impossible. It's not hard to conclude that full time institutional care is better than full time care from a badly-educated alcohol-dependent can't-be-arsed parent. But most parents are not like that - and many are the exact opposite.

Jerry Atrick

jon1981 wrote: »

Also it makes sense if you consider your pension. Waiting for the child to go to school will see you miss out on 5 yrs pension contributions.

Jesus I'd say you're some craic...Jesus wept

fits

Jerry Atrick wrote: »

Jesus I'd say you're some craic...Jesus wept

You may laugh but it’s really important to consider.

OPyou take the hit now so you are better off when they start school. After a few months in a place you might be able to move to 4 day week.

vandriver

Married 1 income of 40k,take-home 34k.
Married 2 incomes 40k,30k take home 58k.
You'd be 10 grand better of working.

PrideandLuna

eviltwin wrote: »

It gets easier and cheaper once they start school. That's why so many parents work just to pay the crèche. Long term its worth it to keep up your experience and not have that gap on the cv.

Yeah, I am worried about having a massive gap on my cv which is one of the reasons I’m considering going back to work. I just feel very deflated at the prospect of handing most of my paycheque over to have someone else do something I am delighted to be doing.

PrideandLuna

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

You have 10 years experience, and still only earning 30k? Something really isn't adding up there.

Maybe look for a self-employment business that you can run from home.

Like a previous poster, I'm no advocate of putting under 3's into baby-warehouses. If you really need childcare (and some wormen really do), at least use a home-based carer.

No I wasn’t earning 30k I just haven’t seen any jobs doing what I used to do and any jobs that I can transfer my skill set to seem to be advertised at that rate ðŸ™

PrideandLuna

Millem wrote: »

There is a new childcare scheme coming in after Halloween.

Really? I hadn’t heard about that. Do you have any more info?

PrideandLuna

vandriver wrote: »

Married 1 income of 40k,take-home 34k.
Married 2 incomes 40k,30k take home 58k.
You'd be 10 grand better of working.

Yeah it seems a lot when you say 10k but when you say €192pw then add up travel costs parking, lunches, Work wardrobe etc etc 10k isn’t actually 10k unfortunately.

Mrs OBumble

PrideandLuna wrote: »

Yeah it seems a lot when you say 10k but when you say €192pw then add up travel costs parking, lunches, Work wardrobe etc etc 10k isn’t actually 10k unfortunately.

Indeed.

How significant is the CV gap really, in something that only pays 30k with 10 years experience.

If we knew what the field was, we could suggest home based side gigs.

Salary Negotiator

vandriver wrote: »

Married 1 income of 40k,take-home 34k.
Married 2 incomes 40k,30k take home 58k.
You'd be 10 grand better of working.

Am I missing something really obvious? The difference here is 24k.

Edit.

Missing the cost of the childcare. Pretty obvious.

NotTotallySure

PrideandLuna wrote: »

I’m just wondering if anyone can explain to me how they juggle wages with the cost of childcare?
I’m in my 30s and have a 2yo. I have given my husband my tax free allowance so my earnings will all now be taxed at 40%? He earns 40k pa.


Am I missing something? Surely everyone isn’t out there working for nothing...
Is there more tax relief that i would be entitled to?

You won't pay 40% tax on all your earnings. You will always be entitled to have an amount you 'only" pay 20% tax on.

If you gave your husband the benefit of all of your tax rateband, you could still earn €26300 at 20% and you then pay 40% on the balance. Your €26300 rateband can never be transferred to him. The most tax rateband he can have at 20% is €44300.

Additionally, you may have transferred your portion of the personal/married tax credit to him but you will always still have your PAYE credit (if you are an employee) of €1650 as this is also not transferrable.

If you're not too familiar with how to calculate tax it would work as follows for you on a €30000 income:

26300 @ 20%= 5260
3700 @ 40%= 1480. =6740 gross tax,
minus 1650 PAYE credit=€5090 actual tax to pay.

30000 income, minus 5090 tax, = 24010 take home pay.

Obviously then you'd have prsi and maybe pension contribs to take away from all that too. But just to give you a rough idea.

Cakerbaker

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

Am I missing something really obvious? The difference here is 24k.

Yes but approx €14000 of that will be paying for crèche so only approx €10000 better off.

Salary Negotiator

Cakerbaker wrote: »

Yes but approx €14000 of that will be paying for crèche so only approx €10000 better off.

Thanks, took me a while but I got there in the end.

Del2005

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Thanks for the link.

My opinion is based on an ex who was a Montessori teacher and hung out with a group of other Montessori teachers (all from the same college).

It was a conversation they would regularly have - how the kids full-time in a Montessori (and creche) had much more behaviour problems and were far less happy than the kids who were only there for the morning, or one or two days a week.

It was consistent.

I know, of course, parents who have their kids in Montessoris or creches will need to deny this, as obviously it is too painful to admit they may be choosing their career over their kids happiness.

I know there are exceptions.

I've stated my point. I'm not going to waste time with anyone who wants me to repeat this over and over.

Maybe this is the reason why the montessori teachers you know are seeing behavioral problems! Bad teachers get bad students.

GalwayGrrrrrl

You need to change your perspective- you and your partner are both working so a portion of both your salaries covers the cost of childcare.
It is not easier to work when children go to school - short school days, long holidays and numerous days off/early closing/teachers meetings make it harder. If you are already settled in a job while children are toddlers you are more likely to be in a position to cope with school when it comes, rather than trying to juggle new job with school.
Happy parents equal happy children so do what’s best for you and your family.
Ps I used crèche for both my children and they are well balanced, confident, friendly teens now.

The woman is not asking for a comment on childcare arrangments, the waitressing 2 evening a week is not the worst idea ever, maybe go back when the child is in school and it's not so costly or maybe part-time work.

jon1981

Jerry Atrick wrote: »

Jesus I'd say you're some craic...Jesus wept

You joke now but you won't be joking at retirement age when you're drawing 205e a week


...assuming a state pension still exists, which is unlikely.

PrideandLuna

NotTotallySure wrote: »

You won't pay 40% tax on all your earnings. You will always be entitled to have an amount you 'only" pay 20% tax on.

If you gave your husband the benefit of all of your tax rateband, you could still earn €26300 at 20% and you then pay 40% on the balance. Your €26300 rateband can never be transferred to him. The most tax rateband he can have at 20% is €44300.

Additionally, you may have transferred your portion of the personal/married tax credit to him but you will always still have your PAYE credit (if you are an employee) of €1650 as this is also not transferrable.

If you're not too familiar with how to calculate tax it would work as follows for you on a €30000 income:

26300 @ 20%= 5260
3700 @ 40%= 1480. =6740 gross tax,
minus 1650 PAYE credit=€5090 actual tax to pay.

30000 income, minus 5090 tax, = 24010 take home pay.

Obviously then you'd have prsi and maybe pension contribs to take away from all that too. But just to give you a rough idea.

Ok thanks for the clarification, I was under the impression that I would be paying a much higher rate and if I was to take back my tax credits that it wouldn’t make much difference as I would only be taking from him wages which wouldn’t actually benefit us.
Ok that might make things more doable. Obviously I’m not interested in what either of our take home pay is. Only that Collectively we would be more than 10k better off with me working.

Geuze

jon1981 wrote: »

Also it makes sense if you consider your pension. Waiting for the child to go to school will see you miss out on 5 yrs pension contributions.

Note that your State Pension will not suffer due to time spent rearing children out of the workforce.

jon1981

Geuze wrote: »

Note that your State Pension will not suffer due to time spent rearing children out of the workforce.

I didn't say it would but surely we all strive do better than the state pension. Theres also rhe uncertainty of it being there when you retire.

Peterx

How much does the state give you per week when the benefit period runs out?
An estimate would do

EDIT : €203 minus a means tested amount which is a percentage of your savings and household income. the example said savings of €55,000 reduce the amount by €90. Although it says you have to be available for work so perhaps there is a separate scheme for home keepers.
"Maximum Weekly Rate Over 25 : €203 – Plus €134.70 for a dependent adult. Plus €34 for each child under 12 and €37 for each child aged 12 or over"

At a very basic level the financial savings are creche fees and commuting costs, the costs are your salary and some of your future pension totals.

You could hopefully gain some additional income with part time work when your partner returns from work although that too will add to your means tested household amount and reduce your allowance.

Obviously there are many soft savings, such as the times your child has to be home with chicken pox or the many days the schools are closed and of course the aforementioned better for the child argument.

apologies if this is off topic or has been covered many times before, this thread caught my eye this morning after I dropped a child off to the creche.

Earthsnotflat

Hi PrideandLuna, my two cents advice, based on experience would be to consider if you would really be comfortable spending time with kids at home for couple of years before committing to this. Ireland is an awfully unhelpful state when it comes to raising kids and working comparing to mainland Europe, but the years spent at home will be against you, when you decide to go back to work, and you will be older, which let's be honest, won't be looked at favourably by potential employers, that's reality. Kids are really doing great in social settings, so are adults, so unless you'll have really good support around you, while not working outside, it could be a very lonely experience. And in the future maybe there will be some more support for working women so they don't have to sacrifice their jobs to raise kids, as it really should be doable to have it both with financial support from the state. It's not fair to financially force women to stay at home but it's still so often the case.

jon1981

It's a different Ireland today compared with 30 yrs ago when a stay at home mother was much more common. It also meant there were more social outlets for mothers and their children to meet up, so loneliness was less of a factor.

Of the mothers I know currently (i.e. my age group) nearly all of them are working. It must be a very lonely place for the mothers who choose not to work. Also what chance are their 2-4 yr old kids getting to build good social skills if they're not getting an opportunity to mix with other kids.

My experience above is likely biased and based on a particular demographic. i.e. is this really a middle income earners dilemma?

If money was no object and I never had to work again I'd still put them in a creche for part of the week at least.

LirW

I was in the situation that my income between childcare and commute was not only eaten away but we effectively had to top it up with my husband's pay in order to keep me working.
But my educational situation is different, I have a foreign qualification that's not really recognised here so I really struggled to get work in the first place and the pay was minimum wage with a 90km commute each way.

I'd definitely start applying for jobs and sit down, crunch numbers once you're actually getting interviews and see if the individual job does actually suit your situation when you take hours, commute and other costs into account. It's difficult enough as is to get interviews after being away for a while.
In our situation it worked out best for me to go back to college and do a part time course because I need it in order to ever have the chance to do better.

Woshy

I went back to work recently after a few years at home with the kids. They are both basically in school now. I'm glad I had the time at home with them, but it was my choice and it's not for everyone (and not everybody has the choice, I know).

Tbh, after childcare and other costs are taken out (and the tax differences) it's not hugely worth my while working. If my kids were younger and in full-time childcare I'd basically be coming home with nothing. I love my job though and was lucky to find an amazing one (in everything but pay!). I work for the good of my mental health. I love my kids but I was at home with them for almost 6 years and I needed more.

Even when I was home with the kids they went to crèche two mornings a week because they loved it and one of my kids particularly needed it for his social skills.

I just think there is more to a decision like this then just money. Lots of factors - and you know yourself and your family best.

Jurgen Klopp

I'm not personally advising this ( ) but most I know would look for some retired lady locally who either stays comes to the house or you drop the child to theirs, all cash in the pocket no docket, works out far cheaper

Peterx

I called into my local INTREO office to ask about any state financial supports in the scenario of the 2 working parents+2children - where one parent voluntarily leaves a job to stay at home and mind children.

Speaking of not personally advising anything but I was informed that I would not be entitled to any jobseekers benefit at all, as I would be informing them that I would not seeking a job............
Obviously enough I would not be entitled to any jobseekers allowance either.

There is a "working family supplement" but if your weekly salary exceeds €622 you are above the threshold. If your weekly salary is below €622 you can get 60% of the difference (a bit random but however)

I wasn't completely sure but assuming the €622 is take home and with a very rough estimate of 40% total taxes and deductions from salary the state reckons approximately €53k should be enough to live on.