Clubcar buggy

BarryM

unkel wrote: »

Making the battery myself. That's most of the fun! I'll most likely go for a 52V (58.8V when charged) 14S4P. That will be a big lump of a thing with the vruzend kit, not sure yet how I will attach it to the bike.

But the good thing is that it will have plenty of air around it, unlike the pre-made battery packs where the cells are all hotglued together with no cooling whatsoever, so they heat up really nicely :eek:

Totally off topic but I don't think there is a topic for my issue (yet?)

I have a ClubCar buggy, going OK, although it is 20+ years old. I am beginning to suspect the batteries, although they 'officially' are not showing any serious issues, they seem to get tired easily. I know I can get replacements, at a price, or, worse, Li-ion, if I win the Lotto.
So, I am considering building a new set, just because I saw a link on here to several Youtube vids.
Am I mad? there are 6 8v batteries in it connected to a controller, i.e. 48v, so it may be possible to install a kit?
Any advice or even abuse......?
Barry

SlowBlowin

BarryM wrote: »

Totally off topic but I don't think there is a topic for my issue (yet?)

I have a ClubCar buggy, going OK, although it is 20+ years old. I am beginning to suspect the batteries, although they 'officially' are not showing any serious issues, they seem to get tired easily. I know I can get replacements, at a price, or, worse, Li-ion, if I win the Lotto.
So, I am considering building a new set, just because I saw a link on here to several Youtube vids.
Am I mad? there are 6 8v batteries in it connected to a controller, i.e. 48v, so it may be possible to install a kit?
Any advice or even abuse......?
Barry

Hi Barry, just a bit more info, have the batteries got the capacity (in Ah) printed on them. This will be required to size any replacements correctly ? How much were the direct replacements lead acid units ?

unkel

BarryM wrote: »

I have a ClubCar buggy, going OK, although it is 20+ years old. I am beginning to suspect the batteries, although they 'officially' are not showing any serious issues, they seem to get tired easily.

Deserves it's own thread! That's a golf buggy, right? A miracle that the batteries still somewhat work. Maybe you had them on a trickle charger for years while the buggy wasn't used?

Should be very doable to stick in a 18650 based battery made with a vruzend kit. If you're around the Dublin area, you can borrow mine to see if it works

As SlowBlowin said, could you take a picture of one of the batteries and post it up here?

biko

Moved to own thread

zilog_jones

unkel wrote: »

Deserves it's own thread! That's a golf buggy, right? A miracle that the batteries still somewhat work. Maybe you had them on a trickle charger for years while the buggy wasn't used?

If it's second-hand I'd be surprised if the batteries were original...

unkel

So would I

These golf carts do have very strong lead acid traction batteries though, popular with people using them for off grid storage.

zg3409

I have used some of these EV buggies in a non golf course environment, supplied by the buggyman in naas. We had a battery issue with one, and we simple swapped batteries with a string of other lead acid batteries. We first just sat then on the back (this buggy had a pickup truck type back) and we could drive it again. We had a good relationship with the buggyman and he loaned the company the handheld controller thingy. This can read errors and set up the buggy, presumably with things like speed limits etc. I did not use the controller, but the set up is just a load if batteries under the seat. As others suggest make sure you get same voltage and type and wire up correct way around. If you have a bit of electrical knowledge you may be able to see if one or two batteries are duds and just replace them. You could also possibly use old car batteries if costs are tight. We used old car batteries with a long heavy cable strung from above. Try to post up lots of photos in particular battery labels but also all the battery wiring. They can be confusingly wired as batteries are different directions to fit.

BarryM

Thanks for all the answers. So as not to waste people's time where is 'own thread' or how do I find it??

"Moved to own thread"

Mickeroo

BarryM wrote: »

Thanks for all the answers. So as not to waste people's time where is 'own thread' or how do I find it??

"Moved to own thread"

You're already there

BarryM

Mickeroo wrote: »

You're already there

Thanks, I wondered where the title came from... since I started in e-bikes (I think)
:rolleyes:

BarryM

Ok, to clear up some of the questions.

I live in a very remote place a lot of the time and the buggy is my only form of transport. I bought it about 6 years ago from another, now dead, resident. Afaik, he bought it from the buggyman and the gear was original and I have changed nothing, except the solenoid.

As I said, I have followed the user manual checks for battery health and they are 'good' I just noticed from time to time they seem to 'tire' more quickly recently. I do more or less the same trips when I use it.

I have kept the batteries on the charger during absences and they are OK, when I get back. The manual says you can do that as long as you charge them, check the distilled water and then re-connected them to the charger.

I looked at prices for new versions of the installed batteries (US deep cycle) and it was of the order of €500+ for a set of six, no delivery info. Tractor batteries are not, afaik, the US ones are 8v.

Not 'around the Dublin area' unfortunately.

Any advice, tips, second hand options or anything else gratefully received now that this thread exists. Thanks

zg3409

BarryM wrote: »

Ok, to clear up some of the questions.

I live in a very remote place a lot of the time and the buggy is my only form of transport. I bought it about 6 years ago from another, now dead, resident. Afaik, he bought it from the buggyman and the gear was original and I have changed nothing, except the solenoid.

As I said, I have followed the user manual checks for battery health and they are 'good' I just noticed from time to time they seem to 'tire' more quickly recently. I do more or less the same trips when I use it.

I have kept the batteries on the charger during absences and they are OK, when I get back. The manual says you can do that as long as you charge them, check the distilled water and then re-connected them to the charger.

I looked at prices for new versions of the installed batteries (US deep cycle) and it was of the order of €500+ for a set of six, no delivery info. Tractor batteries are not, afaik, the US ones are 8v.

Not 'around the Dublin area' unfortunately.

Any advice, tips, second hand options or anything else gratefully received now that this thread exists. Thanks

Please send us the model number of the batteries and lots of photos. Ideally length width and depth of the batteries and terminal type. You may be able to source near equivalent batteries locally. "Deep Cycle" batteries are similar to car batteries except they are intended to be run flat regularly and will recover better. They are more expensive.

BarryM

zg3409 wrote: »

Please send us the model number of the batteries and lots of photos. Ideally length width and depth of the batteries and terminal type. You may be able to source near equivalent batteries locally. "Deep Cycle" batteries are similar to car batteries except they are intended to be run flat regularly and will recover better. They are more expensive.

Thanks, I will do the photos etc., but I am not on site at the mo.

I did make some vague enquiries but 8v with 4 cells are not 'normal' presumably there are some specialist suppliers. As I mentioned, the issue is not urgent,what I have are doing ok for the moment. I was just interested in the vids I saw of the 'second hand' constructions from old laptop batteries and wondered if I could benefit from that and save the planet a bit.

Del2005

BarryM wrote: »

Thanks, I will do the photos etc., but I am not on site at the mo.

I did make some vague enquiries but 8v with 4 cells are not 'normal' presumably there are some specialist suppliers. As I mentioned, the issue is not urgent,what I have are doing ok for the moment. I was just interested in the vids I saw of the 'second hand' constructions from old laptop batteries and wondered if I could benefit from that and save the planet a bit.

If the cart needs 48V then 4 12V batteries or 32 1 5V will be the same as 6 8V batteries. The size of the hold the batteries go in and total load are the important bits. Once you have 48V and the same ah rating it doesn't matter how its made up. Check motorbike batteries if the hole is too small for car batteries and you can't get enough good laptop batteries.

zilog_jones

Del2005 wrote: »

If the cart needs 48V then 4 12V batteries or 32 1 5V will be the same as 6 8V batteries. The size of the hold the batteries go in and total load are the important bits. Once you have 48V and the same ah rating it doesn't matter how its made up.

But other things like chemistry do matter, e.g. replacing with laptop batteries as he suggested - Li-ion batteries can't be charged the same way lead acid can, I'm sure they won't take well to trickle charging...

zg3409

BarryM wrote: »

Thanks, I will do the photos etc., but I am not on site at the mo.

I did make some vague enquiries but 8v with 4 cells are not 'normal' presumably there are some specialist suppliers.

Have a look at this link:

https://www.europower.ie/products/golf/golf-buggy-batteries/
Have a look at this link. This is an Irish company selling 8 volt batteries. You need batteries that physically fit, and add up to the total voltage used before. They also need the same type connectors. There can also be issues with corroded connectors over time. Naturally the batteries will be expensive possibly 100 euro x 6 plus shipping within Ireland.

Assuming it is a simple 48volt system any combination of batteries that add up to 48 volt and physically fit are OK. E.g. 12v x 4, 6v x 8 etc. You could try 4 old car batteries sitting on top, assuming you have safety checked everything, and wired up everything OK.

unkel

zilog_jones wrote: »

But other things like chemistry do matter, e.g. replacing with laptop batteries as he suggested - Li-ion batteries can't be charged the same way lead acid can, I'm sure they won't take well to trickle charging...

Chargers are cheap. A 48V lithium charger can be had for a tenner.

@BarryM - post up a picture of one battery where it says a number followed by Ah. That is the capacity of one cell and all we really need to know (but a photo of the batteries in situ and the dimensions of one battery helps too)

I'd be inclined to replace the lead acid with lithium. It will be substantially lighter and you will need about 30-40% of the capacity to give you the same range. Controller will need re-programming though

BarryM

I did the sums on batteries v 48volt but I did wonder about the controller?

Obviously, there are many options, but I have never seen much discussion on the (US) boards about ClubCars.

BarryM

https://www.clubcar.com/content/dam/cc-corp/documents/pdf/pdf/ownersmanuals/DS-Manuals/102252002 0801D0202A.pdf

Is a pdf with all the stuff about the ClubCar model I have including battery layout on page 8

8 VOLT GOLF CART BATTERIES - TROJAN BATTERY T-875 8V/170AH (6 PACK, 48V)
TROJAN BATTERY
SKU: T-875-6x
Shipping: FREE Shipping
Availability: ONLY 4 Sets In Stock (available for shipments to Continental USA only)
$1,349.95

Note the price!!!!
https://www.golfcartgarage.com/8-volt-golf-cart-batteries-trojan-battery-t-875-8v-170ah-6-pack-48v/

unkel

As I expected, Trojans. Yeah they're not cheap. Those are 1.5kWh each, so you have 9kWh on board. You'd probably get away with 3.5kWh in lithium for the same range. A 48V ready made Pylontech US3000 3.5kWh is about €1,300 + VAT last time I looked. Solartricity here in Dublin will be able to get you one

That would be a much wiser spend than brand new Trojan lead acid batteries, but it depends on your circumstances. You can not charge lithium when it is below freezing, so if you are used to charge your buggy out doors, you can't (or have to find a heated solution like with EVs)

SlowBlowin

I think there is a good case to stick with lead acid here:

1. The first set lasted a long time.
2. There are cheaper at about 1000 euro.
3. Use the same battery mounts.
4. Use the same charger.
5. No worries about killing them in the cold.

I think changing to lithium would be much more of a "project", if thats what you want then great, but if you are just after replacements then I think LA.

unkel

SlowBlowin wrote: »

I think changing to lithium would be much more of a "project", if thats what you want then great, but if you are just after replacements then I think LA.

Agreed.

I would go lithium here though, but might not be the best solution for the OP

zg3409

zg3409 wrote: »

Have a look at this link:

https://www.europower.ie/products/golf/golf-buggy-batteries/
Have a look at this link. This is an Irish company selling 8 volt batteries. You need batteries that physically fit, and add up to the total voltage used before. They also need the same type connectors. There can also be issues with corroded connectors over time. Naturally the batteries will be expensive possibly 100 euro x 6 plus shipping within Ireland.

Assuming it is a simple 48volt system any combination of batteries that add up to 48 volt and physically fit are OK. E.g. 12v x 4, 6v x 8 etc. You could try 4 old car batteries sitting on top, assuming you have safety checked everything, and wired up everything OK.

A full set of same battery is 1500 euro from this Dublin based supplier if collected. They say old batteries are worth 75 euro for recycling.

BarryM

Thanks very much everyone.

Some questions -

Did anyone look at the pic in the pdf, that is the layout, I'll ask Europower for their 8v dimensions.

I'd be happy to go Li but not sure of the dimensions, I'll enquire. Is the €10 charger mentioned any use or should I look for a better one?

"cheaper at about 1000 euro" is that based on that $ price? But what about the delivery? Some of those US sites don't deliveer outside US and anyway the delivery from US would be serious.

I must ask the Buggyman what he has in the way of DS batteries.

As I said it is not urgent, but I am so grateful for the information/advice.

unkel

Lithium is not just a direct swap in. Your controller needs to be re-programmed and you need to get another charger. If you are into this sort of stuff like some of us in here - great. A nice project and the end result will be miles better than what you have now.

But it's an awful lot easier to just replace the cells with same ones and part exchange your old ones.

zg3409

BarryM wrote: »

I'll ask Europower for their 8v dimensions.
.

If the batteries in your buggy are indeed
- TROJAN BATTERY T-875 then - TROJAN BATTERY T-875 from europower should fit!

zilog_jones

unkel wrote: »

You can not charge lithium when it is below freezing...

I'm not sure that's correct - you can't charge it *quickly* below zero, but can still charge it.

Some anecdotal evidence I saw regarding the Gen 1 Leaf with the Cold Weather Package is the battery heater doesn't engage until somewhere around -14° C, and minimum operating temperature is -20. Of course things can vary with different packages, chemistries, etc.

Lead acid batteries aren't particularly fond of freezing temperatures either...