Pay someone to accompany driving practice

Cameron326

Am thinking of purchasing a car and want to get in as much as practice as possible between lessons. I don’t have friends or family drivers nearby to ask a favour to be an accompanying license holders and wouldn’t want to put them out anyways. So was thinking about paying someone to sit in it while I get some practice between driving lessons (want to do things by the book rather than unaccompanied learner). I don’t want to be an unaccompanied driver for the sake of saving a few euro as I’m not in a desperate rush to get the license. Has anyone else done this? What would be a reasonable rate do you think to drive to my home or hopefully walk (if nearby) and be driven around for an hour? Was thinking of €20-25?

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

You’d probably get a qualified instructor for that price, if you book a block of lessons.

Cameron326

I wish I could, but i want to drive an automatic, and where I am in Co.Dublin lessons are nearer the €50 per hour mark. And I’ve already done the EDT course which is where the discounts seem to be targeted.

MascotDec85

What you’re proposing is illegal. Only a qualified driving instructor can take you out “for hire or reward”

Tzardine

MascotDec85 wrote: »

What you’re proposing is illegal. Only a qualified driving instructor can take you out “for hire or reward”

Could you provide the source of this. It seems unlikely.

Is it a personal insurance stipulation, or actual legislation ?

FishOnABike

You say you're not in a rush to get you licence. For how long do you intend paying someone to accompany you when you're getting some driving practice?

When you add up to he cost of buying a car (admittedly you will have this afterwards), paying someone to accompany you for practice and the additional insurance cost for a learner it might make as much sense to get additional lessons and sit your test sooner if you can.

cruizer101

18.—(1) The Minister may make regulations in relation to the control of the giving for reward of instruction in or in respect of the driving of a mechanically propelled vehicle.

(2) Regulations under this section may, in particular and without any prejudice to the generality of subsection (1), provide for all or any of the following matters:

(a) the licensing of driving instructors;

(b) the qualifications of licensed driving instructors;

(c) the payment of specified fees in respect of licences and applications for licences and the disposition of such fees;

(d) the conduct and duties of licensed driving instructors;

(e) the keeping and inspection of specified records, the issue of specified certificates and the specifying of the persons by whom such records are to be kept and such certificates are to be issued;

(f) the inspection of courses of instruction given by licensed driving instructors and of vehicles used by them when giving such courses;

(g) the prohibition or the restriction of the giving for reward by a person other than a licensed driving instructor, of instruction in or in respect of the driving of a mechanically propelled vehicle, and the prohibition of a person from employing a driving instructor who is not a licensed driving instructor for the purpose of giving instruction for reward in or in respect of the driving of a mechanically propelled vehicle;

(h) the prohibition of a person other than a licensed driving instructor from holding himself out as a licensed driving instructor, and the prohibition of a person employing a driving instructor other than a licensed driving instructor from holding that driving instructor out as a licensed driving instructor;

(i) the type of vehicle in which the giving for reward of instruction in or in respect of the driving of a mechanically propelled vehicle may be carried on, the fittings required to be in or on such a vehicle and the prescribing of any other conditions subject to which such a vehicle may be used for such instruction.

(3) Different regulations may be made under this section in respect of different classes of vehicles and for different circumstances.

(4) A certificate purporting to be issued pursuant to regulations under this section and stating that a specified person was on a specified day the holder of a licence under the regulations shall, without proof of the signature of the person purporting to sign it or that he was the proper person to issue it, be evidence in any legal proceedings until the contrary is shown of the matters so stated.

(5) In a prosecution for an offence under this section in which a licence under regulations under this section is material, it shall be presumed, until the contrary is shown by the defendant, that at the material time, such a licence, then having effect, was not held.

(6) Whenever a person (in this subsection referred to as the instructor) is accompanying the holder of a provisional licence (within the meaning of section 35 of the Principal Act) while such holder is driving a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place, the instructor shall be deemed, in any prosecution for an offence under this section, to be giving for reward instruction in or in respect of the driving of that vehicle until the contrary is shown by the instructor.

(7) A person who contravenes a regulation under this section which is stated to be a penal regulation shall be guilty of an offence and, in the case of a contravention of a regulation prohibiting or restricting the giving for reward of instruction by a person other than a licensed driving instructor or prohibiting the employment of such a person for the purpose of giving instruction for reward, shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding one hundred pounds or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding six months or to both such fine and such imprisonment.

That the legislation, g implies you cannot give instruction for reward unless you are a qualified instructor.
Are you giving instruction is you are just accompanying them? i don't know, i kind of think 6 implies you are but I'mnot so good at the legal speak
Thats the legislation anyway, source:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1968/act/25/section/18/enacted/en/html#sec18

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

What you quoted from the law is correct

Without a license to do so , a person cannot charge for providing lessons etc.

But this person isn't actually looking for lessons, just someone to sit there and make them road legal.

I don't think there's a crime for paying somebody to sit in a chair ?

Also just my 2c I think 50 euro a lesson is a rip

I would've expected about 35 or even 30 with own car.

Tzardine

cruizer101 wrote: »

......

(g) the prohibition or the restriction of the giving for reward by a person other than a licensed driving instructor, of instruction in or in respect of the driving of a mechanically propelled vehicle, and the prohibition of a person from employing a driving instructor who is not a licensed driving instructor for the purpose of giving instruction for reward in or in respect of the driving of a mechanically propelled vehicle;

......

That only says that a person cannot give lessons unless they are a registered driving instructor.

The OP is not looking for lessons though. Just somebody to accompany them.

If they are not giving instruction it would appear to be legal.

cruizer101

Yeah but I think this bit implies you are considered to be an instructor anyway
(6) Whenever a person (in this subsection referred to as the instructor) is accompanying the holder of a provisional licence (within the meaning of section 35 of the Principal Act) while such holder is driving a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place, the instructor shall be deemed, in any prosecution for an offence under this section, to be giving for reward instruction in or in respect of the driving of that vehicle until the contrary is shown by the instructor.

I read that as: When somebody is accompanying a learner driver driving that person will be considered to be an paid instructor unless they can show otherwise.

Now if not being paid no issue, if they are being paid..

Don't get me wrong I don't see any issue with it as such but technically it might be illegal, it is just something to consider.
If the OP can find someone to do it for them fair its a good idea

dsmythy

Jesus Christ I presume if stopped they'd both stay quiet about the whole cash handover! Do what you gotta do.

MascotDec85

I have to laugh at some of the replies.

What’s being suggested is someone sits there, like a dummy, to fulfill a legal requirement and gets paid circa €10 less/hr than a qualified person, who’s undergone a minimum of 3 extended exams set by a government body as well as regular retesting and they won’t offer any advice or direction?

Would you go to an unqualified doctor or dentist for a tenner less? Would you get your haircut by someone who’s never cut hair before....for a tenner less?

joeguevara

Maybe post on local pages and find out if someone needs regular lifts to work. Then you wouldn't have to pay them and gets over the unaccompanied problem. Even better if it is on the testing route

MascotDec85

“I don’t want to be an unaccompanied driver for the sake of saving a few euro as I’m not in a desperate rush to get the license.”

“Was thinking of €20 to €25”


OP, I’m not being funny but isn’t that a contradiction in terms?

Some of the advice I’ve heard offered out is often wrong and at other times downright dangerous. Other times it’s well meant but totally inaccurate and if followed will cost you money, not save it.

joeguevara

Just go for test and problem solved. It's not as hard as you may think especially in an automatic. If you have done the block lessons then you are probably ready.

MascotDec85

Why don’t you look on Living Social or the like for a driving instructor who has a deal up? That could very well work in your favour

Airyfairy12

cruizer101 wrote: »

18.—(1) The Minister may make regulations in relation to the control of the giving for reward of instruction in or in respect of the driving of a mechanically propelled vehicle.

(2) Regulations under this section may, in particular and without any prejudice to the generality of subsection (1), provide for all or any of the following matters:

(a) the licensing of driving instructors;

(b) the qualifications of licensed driving instructors;

(c) the payment of specified fees in respect of licences and applications for licences and the disposition of such fees;

(d) the conduct and duties of licensed driving instructors;

(e) the keeping and inspection of specified records, the issue of specified certificates and the specifying of the persons by whom such records are to be kept and such certificates are to be issued;

(f) the inspection of courses of instruction given by licensed driving instructors and of vehicles used by them when giving such courses;

(g) the prohibition or the restriction of the giving for reward by a person other than a licensed driving instructor, of instruction in or in respect of the driving of a mechanically propelled vehicle, and the prohibition of a person from employing a driving instructor who is not a licensed driving instructor for the purpose of giving instruction for reward in or in respect of the driving of a mechanically propelled vehicle;

(h) the prohibition of a person other than a licensed driving instructor from holding himself out as a licensed driving instructor, and the prohibition of a person employing a driving instructor other than a licensed driving instructor from holding that driving instructor out as a licensed driving instructor;

(i) the type of vehicle in which the giving for reward of instruction in or in respect of the driving of a mechanically propelled vehicle may be carried on, the fittings required to be in or on such a vehicle and the prescribing of any other conditions subject to which such a vehicle may be used for such instruction.

(3) Different regulations may be made under this section in respect of different classes of vehicles and for different circumstances.

(4) A certificate purporting to be issued pursuant to regulations under this section and stating that a specified person was on a specified day the holder of a licence under the regulations shall, without proof of the signature of the person purporting to sign it or that he was the proper person to issue it, be evidence in any legal proceedings until the contrary is shown of the matters so stated.

(5) In a prosecution for an offence under this section in which a licence under regulations under this section is material, it shall be presumed, until the contrary is shown by the defendant, that at the material time, such a licence, then having effect, was not held.

(6) Whenever a person (in this subsection referred to as the instructor) is accompanying the holder of a provisional licence (within the meaning of section 35 of the Principal Act) while such holder is driving a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place, the instructor shall be deemed, in any prosecution for an offence under this section, to be giving for reward instruction in or in respect of the driving of that vehicle until the contrary is shown by the instructor.

(7) A person who contravenes a regulation under this section which is stated to be a penal regulation shall be guilty of an offence and, in the case of a contravention of a regulation prohibiting or restricting the giving for reward of instruction by a person other than a licensed driving instructor or prohibiting the employment of such a person for the purpose of giving instruction for reward, shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding one hundred pounds or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding six months or to both such fine and such imprisonment.

That the legislation, g implies you cannot give instruction for reward unless you are a qualified instructor.
Are you giving instruction is you are just accompanying them? i don't know, i kind of think 6 implies you are but I'mnot so good at the legal speak
Thats the legislation anyway, source:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1968/act/25/section/18/enacted/en/html#sec18

The OP isnt asking about paying a randomer for lessons, they dont have anyone to be their sponser and sit with them in their car as they practice driving between lessons (Learner drivers arent permitted to drive unaccompanied anymore) but needs to get some practice in, since she doesnt have anyone she is asking if it would be reasonable to pay someone to sit in the car with her and be her sponsor as she practices.

cruizer101

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

The OP isnt asking about paying a randomer for lessons, they dont have anyone to be their sponser and sit with them in their car as they practice driving between lessons (Learner drivers arent permitted to drive unaccompanied anymore) but needs to get some practice in, since she doesnt have anyone she is asking if it would be reasonable to pay someone to sit in the car with her and be her sponsor as she practices.

I'm not saying its not reasonable, all I'm saying is this is the legislation which I think MascotDec was referring to. And that they could potentially be going against it by paying someone to accompany them.
Personally I think it is a pretty good reasonable idea but they should be aware they may be in breach of the law.

Posy

I think, like others have suggested, that the best bet is to block book lessons with a cheap driving school or one that's doing a promotion. The person you theoretically pay would have to change their insurance to add someone on a learner permit and this could bump up their premium.

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Learner drivers arent permitted to drive unaccompanied anymore

Not since 2008, no. :pac:

Airyfairy12

Posy wrote: »

I think, like others have suggested, that the best bet is to block book lessons with a cheap driving school or one that's doing a promotion. The person you theoretically pay would have to change their insurance to add someone on a learner permit and this could bump up their premium.

Not since 2008, no. :pac:

OP said they're going to buy their own car.

Im learning to drive and its not as easy as buying block lessons, thats still only a one hour drive one day a week, if you can get weekly lessons. Im currently switching between 3 instructors because I cant get anyone that give lessons weekly as theyre so overbooked. Even at that I will need much more than 12 lessons as like the OP, ive not got anyone to sit with me in a car to practice so I get no practice inbetween lessons. To get adequate practice to be confident on the road, ideally youd want to be getting behind the wheel every day or second day, even if its just driving through the estate or to the shop and back. You cant get that practice just with lessons.

The OP isnt asking about lessons, theyre already getting lessons, theyre asking about paying someone to be a sponsor as they have no body who is willing to take on the roll.

rapul

Yeah ive thought of this before, I'd well sit in someone's car why not sure, it's ridiculous how hard it is to get on the road these days

Posy

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Im learning to drive and its not as easy as buying block lessons, thats still only a one hour drive one day a week, if you can get weekly lessons. Im currently switching between 3 instructors because I cant get anyone that give lessons weekly as theyre so overbooked.

I know, learned to drive this year with lessons alone and no sponsor. I appreciate how difficult it is. I just think money wise, the OP would be best off waiting to buy a car and sticking with lessons.
It's up to them, though. If they can find a sponsor who agrees to the arrangement, and can afford buying and insuring a car on a learner permit, fair play. Each to their own.

Bruthal

MascotDec85 wrote: »

I have to laugh at some of the replies.

What’s being suggested is someone sits there, like a dummy, to fulfill a legal requirement and gets paid circa €10 less/hr than a qualified person, who’s undergone a minimum of 3 extended exams set by a government body as well as regular retesting and they won’t offer any advice or direction?

Would you go to an unqualified doctor or dentist for a tenner less? Would you get your haircut by someone who’s never cut hair before....for a tenner less?

So do learner drivers now require full driving instructors with them any time they drive?

Posy

No, but their sponsor is expected to be a friend/family member, not somebody being paid. It's the paying someone part that is iffy law-wise MascotDec is saying.

Bruthal

Posy wrote: »

No, but their sponsor is expected to be a friend/family member, not somebody being paid. It's the paying someone part that is iffy law-wise MascotDec is saying.

A bit of a nonsense analogy though.

Airyfairy12

Posy wrote: »

No, but their sponsor is expected to be a friend/family member, not somebody being paid. It's the paying someone part that is iffy law-wise MascotDec is saying.

Why is it expected to be a friend or family member?

I nearly cried when my driving instructor asked me if there is absolutely nobody that can help me practice. I dont have anyone in my family that im close to and nobody that would help me in anyway - my family arent the most accommodating.
I wouldnt ask a friend and expect them to put themselves out for me like that.

Strangely, learning to drive has brought up allot of past issues that are sensitive and hurtful.

Paying for a sponsor may be the only option someone has, I dont see why that would be illegal or iffy?

martingriff

joeguevara wrote: »

Just go for test and problem solved. It's not as hard as you may think especially in an automatic. If you have done the block lessons then you are probably ready.

I think Automatics are great at I am in one. However if he does his test in an automatic he only can drive automatics. I do not see the hate for them here or the UK in every other country they seem to be the norm

Posy

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Why is it expected to be a friend or family member?

I'm only quoting from the RSA- "What is a sponsor? A sponsor is an experienced driver who accompanies a learner driver in their practice driving lessons. Sponsors are often family members or close friends of learner drivers."

I assume most people practice with a friend/colleague/family member/partner as opposed to a stranger.

MascotDec85

I’m going to quote the OP and email the RSA and I’ll update with their reply when I receive it.