US Award For Shannon Group Chairman

Balf

This story might seem to be something of a minority interest, to say the least.

I just thought it noteworthy to see how much of the English speaking world is contained in one cultural event.

http://www.clare.fm/news/shannon-airport/us-award-shannon-group-chairman/

Shannon Group Chairman Rose Hynes has been honoured by the US branch of the Irish Chamber of Commerce.

The New Quay native has been bestowed with the Sir Michael Smurfit Business Achievement Award at the 31st Annual American Celtic Ball, held recently in New York.

I felt a similar degree of cultural inclusion, when discovering that the legal distinction between being Irish and British was being defined by a case concerning the UK residency rights of an American married to someone called de Sousa.

Is nationality all nonsense, Ted? If it means something, what does it mean?

James Brown

On the 'Sir' the well to do and wannabe well to do love a title. No Irish citizen should have such a title recognised IMO, unless a dual citizen of somewhere with a monarchy of sorts.
You can be Irish, French or Chinese and called 'de Sousa'. FYI: the Taoiseach is called Varadkar. Names are given to people, people move about.

Stanford

Ms Hynes is a native of Clare

Balf

Matt Barrett wrote: »

No Irish citizen should have such a title recognised IMO, unless a dual citizen of somewhere with a monarchy of sorts.

And that seems to be the case with "Sir" Michael, and his award is set out below.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/birthhons_main_11_06_05.pdf

To be Ordinary Knights Commander of the Civil Division of the said Most
Excellent Order:

SMURFIT, Dr. Michael William Joseph. For services to British business and
charitable interests.

So any issue about a "Celtic" night run by an Irish business association in New York handing out an award named after an entitled dual citizen? Or is it all just chin music?

Matt Barrett wrote: »

You can be Irish, French or Chinese and called 'de Sousa'. FYI: the Taoiseach is called Varadkar. Names are given to people, people move about.

So does any of it matter? If someone stoutly insists they've a right to be deemed Irish, should we suggest they relax and accept whatever nationality they happen to have ended up with?

It just strikes me as a little odd to, on the one hand, employ these markers like "Celtic", "Ireland" and "New Quay native", as if these things had some importance - and we expected people to band together because of these markers.

And then hand out an award, named after someone who has been honoured for his services to Britain.

For what its worth, I think nationality is useful nonsense - like product branding, and the Ireland Chamber of Commerce might be weakening the brand by confusing the message.

Just as I don't think the brand is helped by allowing it to be used to get UK residency for an American.

Bob the Seducer

Stanford wrote: »

Ms Hynes is a native of Clare

I was wondering why New Quay was highlighted alright considering it's a small place a bit above Ballyvaughan.

I don't really see how "Irish woman from Irish company gets award named after famous Irish business man (the same one the UCD Business School is named after) from US branch of Irish Chamber of Commerce" connects to the de Souza case.

On first inspection, the UK appears to be ignoring the right of someone born in Northern Ireland to be recognised as Irish only based on the GFA and as a result has stalled on following the EU's rules on residency for non EU spouses.

The only wildcard I can see in relation to her case is if she was born prior to the GFA being signed, she may have been born a British citizen under the rules of the day whether she likes it or not.

Generally, a country will not treat a dual citizen as a foreign national for the application of laws if they also hold citizenship of the country they're in.

James Brown

Balf wrote: »

And that seems to be the case with "Sir" Michael, and his award is set out below.So any issue about a "Celtic" night run by an Irish business association in New York handing out an award named after an entitled dual citizen? Or is it all just chin music?So does any of it matter? If someone stoutly insists they've a right to be deemed Irish, should we suggest they relax and accept whatever nationality they happen to have ended up with?

Irishness is personal. Being from Ireland is a geograhpical fact. You are associated with Irish history and heritage. You can choose to embrace it or like some of out brothers and sisters up north claim foreign heritage. Or like any group from foreign decent. It matters to the person.

Balf wrote: »

It just strikes me as a little odd to, on the one hand, employ these markers like "Celtic", "Ireland" and "New Quay native", as if these things had some importance - and we expected people to band together because of these markers.

People of similar heritage band together. There's comfort in association.

Balf wrote: »

And then hand out an award, named after someone who has been honoured for his services to Britain.

Monkey see monkey do. I'm sure he got great excitement when mixing with the others. Bless.

Balf wrote: »

For what its worth, I think nationality is useful nonsense - like product branding, and the Ireland Chamber of Commerce might be weakening the brand by confusing the message.

Just as I don't think the brand is helped by allowing it to be used to get UK residency for an American.

Residency is another matter. We'd a U.S. resident ran for Irish President last election. We've a Maltese resident gets any state contract he fancies from the Fine Gael party.

Sonny noggs

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Irishness is personal. Being from Ireland is a geograhpical fact. You are associated with Irish history and heritage. You can choose to embrace it or like some of out brothers and sisters up north claim foreign heritage. Or like any group from foreign decent. It matters to the person.



People of similar heritage band together. There's comfort in association.



Monkey see monkey do. I'm sure he got great excitement when mixing with the others. Bless.



Residency is another matter. We'd a U.S. resident ran for Irish President last election. We've a Maltese resident gets any state contract he fancies from the Fine Gael party.

Couldn't resist, could you Matt?

James Brown

Sonny noggs wrote: »

Couldn't resist, could you Matt?

What's your point on the topic? Couldn't resist chiming in with nothing?

Sonny noggs

Matt Barrett wrote: »

What's your point on the topic? Couldn't resist chiming in with nothing?

About as valid as you bringing up FG.

blackwhite

On Michael Smurfitt specifically - wasn't he born in North-West England?

Guessing that's where the eligibility for "Sir" comes from.

ohnonotgmail

blackwhite wrote: »

On Michael Smurfitt specifically - wasn't he born in North-West England?

Guessing that's where the eligibility for "Sir" comes from.

He was born there. He holds dual british/irish citizenship. I still cant figure out what this thread is about. what is the actual issue?

Bob the Seducer

blackwhite wrote: »

On Michael Smurfitt specifically - wasn't he born in North-West England?

Guessing that's where the eligibility for "Sir" comes from.

I don't think it actually matters where someone is born. As far as I know, the whole knighthood / Sir thing is generally awarded based on 'services / contribution to...' That's how the likes of Terry Wogan (from Limerick) and Bob Geldof (from Dublin) ended up with them.

ohnonotgmail

Bob the Seducer wrote: »

I don't think it actually matters where someone is born. As far as I know, the whole knighthood / Sir thing is generally awarded based on 'services / contribution to...' That's how the likes of Terry Wogan (from Limerick) and Bob Geldof (from Dublin) ended up with them.

Geldof isnt a "Sir" as he doesnt have dual citizenship. He is an honorary knight. Wogan was a dual citizen hence the Sir Terry.

Balf

Bob the Seducer wrote: »

I don't really see how "Irish woman from Irish company gets award named after famous Irish business man (the same one the UCD Business School is named after) from US branch of Irish Chamber of Commerce" connects to the de Souza case.

And maybe it doesn't - I'm really just exploring the topic.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Irishness is personal. Being from Ireland is a geograhpical fact.

Fine. Then, if Irishness isn't just a fact, are there any limits to it? Should anyone who wants to claim Irishness, on the basis of enjoying reading a book by a Paris resident called James Joyce?

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I still cant figure out what this thread is about. what is the actual issue?

I'm really just exploring nationality, and whether it means anything.

blackwhite

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

He was born there. He holds dual british/irish citizenship. I still cant figure out what this thread is about. what is the actual issue?

Not really sure TBH

I'm broadly in favour idea of having a system that honours people for outstanding contributions to society/charity/etc., but at the same time I'm not sure about the point of adding a formal title to someone's name as the way of recognising it.

When you hear stories of the likes of Ben Kingsley get worked up about people not calling him "Sir Ben" it all seems a bit pathetic (as does people getting worked up about people accepting the awards TBH).

Anytime I hear stories like the "Sir Ben" rubbish, all I can think of is Len

James Brown

Sonny noggs wrote: »

About as valid as you bringing up FG.

Varadkar and De Souza can't be Irish people?
Great input though boss.

Balf wrote: »

Then, if Irishness isn't just a fact, are there any limits to it? Should anyone who wants to claim Irishness, on the basis of enjoying reading a book by a Paris resident called James Joyce?

There's a difference between embracing it and claiming it. You are or are not. You embrace it or you do not.

Sonny noggs

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Varadkar and De Souza can't be Irish people?
Great input though boss.



There's a difference between embracing it and claiming it. You are or are not. You embrace it or you do not.

Cop on

Donnielighto

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Varadkar and De Souza can't be Irish people?
Great input though boss.

No, FG, which you mentioned specifically in a post. But continued to be disingenous, it won't help people take your points seriously.