Buying a commercial van for private use

SelfBuild2019

If i was to buy a commercial van from a company (currently a company vehicle), and the tax was up in 6 months time, what do I need to do to keep the tax at the commercial rate going forward? It would be for private use only, so i guess my question is, what can i do to ensure the commercial rate going forward?! I know i have to get the RF111a signed at the Garda station, which wouldn't be an issue. I've heard that I may need to send in my original insurance cert with the form also, which could be an issue as it won't state commercial anywhere, so I'm just wondering if anyone has had experience of this previously?

wonski

If its for private use only you know the answer.

Now no people will be killed if a vehicle is taxed incorrectly, but there is no legal way to keep the tax while driving the van privately

_Brian

Have you talked to an insurer about getting private insurance on a van.

They really don’t like this sort of thing, commercial vehicles for commercial insurance and private insurance for passenger vehicles.

As for taxing vans it’s different from county to county what they do. Some look for evidence of business activity and some don’t bother.
Some will accept brief evidence while I’ve heard of vat number being demanded.

AXA will insure you on a van for private use, commercial use or both.

It's proving that you have a business or are self employed that will get you

krissovo

Making an assumption from your username that you will be using the van in the construction of your self build we did something similar and kept the commercial rate when we renewed. I did register with revenue as a sole trader (form tr1), as it turns out i did not earn a penny in two years of ownership and then sold the van.

You do not need to register a business if you use your own name however you need to fill out a tax return but this was online and simple as i had no revenue.

Drifter50

I think you know the answer to that yourself.

If you are in an accident with your surfboard in the back on a Saturday how are you going to submit a claim ?

Asides from that we have all had the nosy neighbours who report cars /vans with no up to date tax disc/ insurance/DOE/ English reg etc etc

Drifter50

Drifter50 wrote: »

If you are in an accident with your surfboard in the back on a Saturday how are you going to submit a claim ?

All commercial policies also cover private use so no issue at all with submitting your claim.

Drifter50 wrote: »

Asides from that we have all had the nosy neighbours who report cars /vans with no up to date tax disc/ insurance/DOE/ English reg etc etc

The vast majority of people assume commercial vehicles are supposed to have commercial tax and even if they didn’t why would they care or know that the op isn’t using it commercially, in fact the only thing on your list that might get reported is the uk reg and even that takes a level of w***er that is very rare.. 99.9% of people who have commercials have them taxed commercially regardless of use and have you ever heard of someone reported or getting in any trouble whatsoever over private use? I certainly haven’t and I know countless people using commercially taxed vehicles privately including myself.

I would love to know what the penalty is for using a commercially taxed vehicle privately. Revenue even allow for the scenario where you keep a private milage record and take the percentage of overall milage off the expenses for the vehicle.

I'll bet every single self employed person uses there can privately at some stage but the percentage is very low. I have heard stories of Guards mentioning it at checkpoints but never anyone getting a fine or been reported to revenue etc

elperello

Check the Motor Tax section on your local authority web site. They will list the documentation required to tax commercially. If you can produce that documentation at the Motor Tax office you will have no problem.
You only need to do this once because renewals can be done online.

Drifter50

Cole Flabby Preschooler wrote: »

All commercial policies also cover private use so no issue at all with submitting your claim.



The vast majority of people assume commercial vehicles are supposed to have commercial tax and even if they didn’t why would they care or know that the op isn’t using it commercially, in fact the only thing on your list that might get reported is the uk reg and even that takes a level of w***er that is very rare.. 99.9% of people who have commercials have them taxed commercially regardless of use and have you ever heard of someone reported or getting in any trouble whatsoever over private use? I certainly haven’t and I know countless people using commercially taxed vehicles privately including myself.

Can I ask are you an insurance professional. My broker tells me I`m not covered to drive my van for social domestic and personal use and if I`m in an accident with a passenger I may not be covered. Is that true,a serious question ? Thats why I use the van Mon to Fri and use my own car at the weekends. I`m fed up driving the van at the moment and for the last month have been driving my car for work and anyway the tax and DOE is out on the van.I discovered my neighbour 2 doors away reported the van as being dumped cos she did`nt like it parked there and I got a visit from AGS

Drifter50

Cole Flabby Preschooler wrote: »

All commercial policies also cover private use so no issue at all with submitting your claim.



The vast majority of people assume commercial vehicles are supposed to have commercial tax and even if they didn’t why would they care or know that the op isn’t using it commercially, in fact the only thing on your list that might get reported is the uk reg and even that takes a level of w***er that is very rare.. 99.9% of people who have commercials have them taxed commercially regardless of use and have you ever heard of someone reported or getting in any trouble whatsoever over private use? I certainly haven’t and I know countless people using commercially taxed vehicles privately including myself.

Come to think of it now, the neighbour a few doors up the other side has a UK reg motorhome that another neighbour reported him for..........

Drifter50

Drifter50 wrote: »

Can I ask are you an insurance professional. My broker tells me I`m not covered to drive my van for social domestic and personal use and if I`m in an accident with a passenger I may not be covered. Is that true,a serious question ? Thats why I use the van Mon to Fri and use my own car at the weekends. I`m fed up driving the van at the moment and for the last month have been driving my car for work and anyway the tax and DOE is out on the van.I discovered my neighbour 2 doors away reported the van as being dumped cos she did`nt like it parked there and I got a visit from AGS

No I’m not an insurance professional but any policy I have had it got quotes for (through brokers or direct with the company) have always included social domestic and pleasure use, I have always double checked too as that’s what most use falls under.

Either your broker doesn’t understand the policy or he is finding very rare and very bad policies which are limited to commercial use only.

Drifter50 wrote: »

Come to think of it now, the neighbour a few doors up the other side has a UK reg motorhome that another neighbour reported him for..........

Luckily where I live we are all good country neighbors who would give you a heads up to avoid getting caught doing something rather than report you.

K.Flyer

In the tax office in Smithfield when I was last taxing a commercial for the first time, apart from the 111a declaration, they asked to see my commercial motor insurance policy.
Checking two council web sites regarding this, they both say that apart from the declaration you must produce your original insurance certificate showing that the vehicle is insured for commercial purposes.

Dublin City Council

When submitting a "Goods Only" Declaration form RF111A you must also submit your original motor insurance certificate confirming that you are insured for business use

wonski

If you are insured for both business use and social, domestic and pleasure that's not an issue.

Homer

wonski wrote: »

If you are insured for both business use and social, domestic and pleasure that's not an issue.

But you will undoubtedly see an increase in your premium. As opposed to some people who want to insure its for personal use and then use it for business purposes and tax it for business use!

t1mm

elperello wrote: »

Check the Motor Tax section on your local authority web site. They will list the documentation required to tax commercially. If you can produce that documentation at the Motor Tax office you will have no problem.
You only need to do this once because renewals can be done online.

Does this need to be done only the first time the vehicle is taxed commercially? Or does it need to be done each time the vehicle changes ownership?

Homer

t1mm wrote: »

Does this need to be done only the first time the vehicle is taxed commercially? Or does it need to be done each time the vehicle changes ownership?

Every time it changes ownership afaik.

SelfBuild2019

The motor tax office are looking for a letter from the Revenue confirming being registered as a sole trader. Is registering as a sole trader and filing nil returns an option?

elperello

Homer wrote: »

Every time it changes ownership afaik.

Correct.

Homer

Homer wrote: »

But you will undoubtedly see an increase in your premium. As opposed to some people who want to insure its for personal use and then use it for business purposes and tax it for business use!

Social domestic pleasure is standard on commercial policies though you would have to go out of your way to find a policy that doesn’t have it and it’s easy to understand why as everyone with a commercial uses it for private use also be it 5% or the time or 100% of the time. It would be easy enough to end up in a situation where you aren’t insured if you had a policy limited to only commercial use, it would be a foolish policy to have.

krissovo

SelfBuild2019 wrote: »

The motor tax office are looking for a letter from the Revenue confirming being registered as a sole trader. Is registering as a sole trader and filing nil returns an option?

Yes, see post 5. I did it for 2 years, the only down side is you will have to keep on doing tax returns for a years.

Drifter50

Cole Flabby Preschooler wrote: »

No I’m not an insurance professional but any policy I have had it got quotes for (through brokers or direct with the company) have always included social domestic and pleasure use, I have always double checked too as that’s what most use falls under.

Either your broker doesn’t understand the policy or he is finding very rare and very bad policies which are limited to commercial use only.



Luckily where I live we are all good country neighbors who would give you a heads up to avoid getting caught doing something rather than report you.

Thanks for this, the policy covers 2 vans and is one of the old Setanta policies which my broker told me was taken over by Zurich with pre conditions so I`m thinking he is not across his brief.

elperello

Drifter50 wrote: »

Thanks for this, the policy covers 2 vans and is one of the old Setanta policies which my broker told me was taken over by Zurich with pre conditions so I`m thinking he is not across his brief.

Those kind of policies are really only for cases where vehicles are kept at a business premises and not taken home.