Co Council Housing rules

curiousJudg

HI there, posting for a friend. Friend lives in a Co-council duplex, two bedroomed. She has a 16 yr old and a new baby with new relationship now (was a lone parent for 16 years). Friend is now much older and struggling with two issues, [1] lack of space, there's now four people loving in the house. The older daughter doesn't want to share with a baby especially as studying for leaving cert etc. [2] friend is struggling now up and down the stairs of the duplex with new baby/buggy etc - she's a bit older now and has a back injury which is flaring up constantly from carrying the baby. She requested a swap from the council - any area is fine, however she was told that she won't qualify for a swap as the new rules state that two girls can share a room. Question is - is there a link to see these rules and can they be challenged? The main issue is definitely the stairs but also a lack of space for four people.

Cork Trucker

They can seek a housing transfer however unless it is very exceptional circumstances they should be prepared for a long wait. I'm personally aware of a family of 2 adults and 8 children is a 3 bedroom property waiting 4 years for a transfer to a bigger property despite bidding each week on CBL and nothing is happening. In any event good luck with it.

Edit, they are correct on the gender thing, however i'm unsure in relation to the age gap, the case i've mentioned has a 13 year old girl sharing with a 5 year old boy, just to give you an example. Hand in anything to support the request such as medical records, Public Health Nurse letters of support etc.

splinter65

She should certainly apply to be put on the transfer list right away.
There’s no easy way to say this but what will happen is that in maybe 10 years time she will be offered something.
As far as the local authority are concerned she is adequately housed.

curiousJudg

Thanks for the replies, she's actually been on the transfer list for some time and it came up for review, she just got a letter which stated in essence that she didn't qualify for a transfer as she had two girls who could share a room. Bit of a shock as she was fairly confident of a transfer, has never had a single issue in 16 years, no arrears etc. As I said the real issue for us anyway is that physically she is struggling with a baby on the stairs all the time. I just thought there would be a charter or list of rules/regulations etc that we could look at.

lola85

4 people in a two bedroom house?

Are people seriously suggesting this is overcrowding?

Sesame

How old is the baby?
As a teenager, i wouldn't have been happy sharing a room with a baby either. They need a good night sleep and their own space.

I own my house but it also only has two bedrooms and baby has to sleep in with us and probably will have to until he is a toddler at least. Is the parents sharing with the baby an option?

Regarding the stairs, you can buy lockable containers that fix to the wall, from woodies/B&Q which would fit your buggy. They are designed for bikes but work well for anything that can't fit into the house or up steps in your case.
Can you tell I have similar small house issues! But we make it work, so far anyway.

curiousJudg

HI, not suggesting overcrowding, what I am saying is this is a very small upper story duplex with four rooms in total, a bathroom a kitchen/living room shared, a very small box room and a small double room. At the moment parents are in with baby (baby is about 8 months old), other child is very nearly 16 and in a very small box room. The issue is not so much storage although thanks for that (there is a garden with garden shed downstairs) the issue is actually climbing the stairs with baby and/or carry cot, shopping etc. Again just wondering are the rules stated anywhere as I cannot find them?

Salary Negotiator

If the issue is that the mother is having trouble climbing the stairs then she would need to appeal/apply for a transfer under those grounds, nothing to do with the size of the place.

curiousJudg

Thanks, the issue is actually both! However, she applied for a transfer when she became pregnant again, following the pregnancy there were medical issues which I won't go into here. So, she didn't update them re medical issues but was confident of the transfer, she got a letter saying she didn't qualify for a transfer but how can one know if one qualifies if the rules aren't published anywhere? surely it would have saved a lot of time and waiting on a list had she known the rules

banie01

How would your friend manage this "overcrowding" if she were a private tenant?

Sharing bedrooms is part and parcel of life for many families.
Noone likes to do it, and more space is always welcome but given that family size is pretty much a choice in this day and age.
Your friend made the choice to increase the family size and number of tenants knowing the "capacity" of the dwelling.

If she had owned the duplex, or indeed if she was a private tenant what would your advice to her be?

Pay to move?


EDIT: Just saw the post regarding possible mobility issues.
Should your friend have a mobility impairment.
Document it, provide supporting documentation from a treating specialist and forward it to the housing office.
Looking for the rules, when you haven't provided the housing office with any documentation supporting a claim of impairment is a little pointless.

curiousJudg

banie01 wrote: »

Looking for the rules, when you haven't provided the housing office with any documentation supporting a claim of impairment is a little pointless.

I'm very simply looking for a copy of the rules that the local authorities use when considering a transfer of housing. As I said before she did not mention impairment when applying for transfer as at that time she had simply applied for a transfer due to expanding family - medical issues later complicated matters. Honestly a simple 'there is no such thing as a list of the rules/requirements for a transfer' would do - the judgment and comparison between private ownership and council tenants is not really the issue here nor is is required on a fact seeking thread. I'm on as a friend looking for the list of requirements that the council go by, she intends to appeal the decision and obviously knowledge is power, so if the rules were public that could assist her...... I don't think that's unreasonable??

banie01

curiousJudg wrote: »

I'm very simply looking for a copy of the rules that the local authorities use when considering a transfer of housing. As I said before she did not mention impairment when applying for transfer as at that time she had simply applied for a transfer due to expanding family - medical issues later complicated matters. Honestly a simple 'there is no such thing as a list of the rules/requirements for a transfer' would do - the judgment and comparison between private ownership and council tenants is not really the issue here nor is is required on a fact seeking thread. I'm on as a friend looking for the list of requirements that the council go by, she intends to appeal the decision and obviously knowledge is power, so if the rules were public that could assist her...... I don't think that's unreasonable??

She can't appeal the original decision.
It was made solely on the basis of information she supplied when seeking a transfer for "overcrowding" as such unless that decision was incorrect regarding the application of the LA's overcrowding policy, there are no grounds for appeal of that particular decision.

She can make a new application with the relevant information.

Her original request was made on the basis of overcrowding and was refused.
That refusal letter will include both detail on the grounds of refusal and the means of appeal.

Now your friend has encountered a mobility issue.
This issue was not part of her original application, was not considered and as such played no part in the decision to refuse her transfer.

As such, given that now a transfer is wanted on a medical basis that was not part of the original request, your friend isn't making an appeal against that original refusal.
She needs to make a new transfer request for the stated medical reasons with the supporting documentation outlining her mobility impairment and medical needs.

The original decision is correct based on her original application.

One can't appeal that decision by shifting the goalposts and deciding to introduce a medical condition that was previously undisclosed.

A new application for the new reason is required.
And should that be refused a letter will issue outline both the reason for the refusal and the appeals process.

The transfer rules for LA housing are in general outlined on each LA housing Departments website, there is no universal rule book and it differs between LA's.
Have you contacted the relevant LA and asked them for the policy?

curiousJudg

Thanks for that banie01 - that makes total sense and I'll explain it to her.

Re the transfer for LA Housing, no I haven't contacted them I suppose I thought I would find it online somewhere but I will now contact them and ask.

One more question, if she was to source a private transfer (not sure if that;s what it's called) somebody who is willing to swap their LA house for her duplex - there is a website for such exchange apparently -would the council stop that from going ahead as she doesn't qualify for a transfer yet? There was a girl interested in swapping as her children had grown up - she lives in a bungalow nearby.

splinter65

lola85 wrote: »

4 people in a two bedroom house?

Are people seriously suggesting this is overcrowding?

This is part of the housing issue. Very unrealistic expectations. It’s inexplicable really.

banie01

curiousJudg wrote: »

Thanks for that banie01 - that makes total sense and I'll explain it to her.

You're very welcome.

curiousJudg wrote: »

Re the transfer for LA Housing, no I haven't contacted them I suppose I thought I would find it online somewhere but I will now contact them and ask.

I'd be very surprised if those rules aren't published on the CoCo housing website or available from the office on request at the very least.
Its a matter of fairness that where an application or decision is based on rules, that those rules are available to an applicant before they apply.

curiousJudg wrote: »

One more question, if she was to source a private transfer (not sure if that;s what it's called) somebody who is willing to swap their LA house for her duplex - there is a website for such exchange apparently -would the council stop that from going ahead as she doesn't qualify for a transfer yet? There was a girl interested in swapping as her children had grown up - she lives in a bungalow nearby.

Honestly have not got a clue, I'd imagine it will however be included in the LA rules.

Gatling

If she swapped I believe she can only transfer to another two bed ,
So there is a chance the next place would be smaller ,
Considering the elder child will be free to support themselves or live where they want in 18 - 24 months time

nothing

If the duplex is zoned as 3 bed spaces and the partner is on the council lease and contributing to rent, then I don't see how it isn't a clear case of overcrowding. However, if the partner isn't officially living there, she won't be deemed overcrowded.

I'd tell her to forget the overcrowding and go the medical need route, especially if she's having so much trouble with the stairs.

A council will *usually* allow a swap within its own county, though not seen all county's rules to be sure.