Could it happen?

In the book The Second Sleep by Robert Harris, the premise of which is that modern society collapsed and we reverted to sort of dark age due to the collapse in technology, listing to him being interviewed he believes it could happen very quickly, most people can't repair their stuff themselves, most people only have a few days food in their house if even that, we tap to pay for most things so we would very quickly have no acesses to money in a technology disruption.


Could society disintegrate like that or as a society are we more resourceful?

BDI

Id be grand

Might have to use my own milk for the tea though.

Mr. Incognito

It could happen very easily

People went ape when we had snow for three days.

And when it happens it wont be the intellectuals who are in charge. Its the crazy loons with all the tin cans and the guns buried in the back garden.

GBX

People without cash can sell their wares - job done.

What made me think was going in to LIdil and seeing almost no beef after a week or so of protests and Lidil still being able to access beef processed in the UK, our food supply is very finely balanced and not in a good way.

kneemos

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

It could happen very easily

People went ape when we had snow for three days.

And when it happens it wont be the intellectuals who are in charge. Its the crazy loons with all the tin cans and the guns buried in the back garden.

Farmers,Sinn Fein.

randd1

mariaalice wrote: »

In the book The Second Sleep by Robert Harris, the premise of which is that modern society collapsed and we reverted to sort of dark age due to the collapse in technology, listing to him being interviewed he believes it could happen very quickly, most people can't repair their stuff themselves, most people only have a few days food in their house if even that, we tap to pay for most things so we would very quickly have no acesses to money in a technology disruption.


Could society disintegrate like that or as a society are we more resourceful?

Of course it could happen.

And whatever about the rural population, the urban one is ****ed completely.

Though I don't think it would be a collapse of technology that would cause it. I'd be more along the lines of Nuclear war given the loons that seem to be in power everywhere destroying the world, or something like the film idiocracy where technology has made intelligence redundant.

rossie1977

In 1859 a massive solar storm hit Earth. If the same thing happened today with same force it would destroy pretty much all our technology https://www.newscientist.com/article/2150350-a-tech-destroying-solar-flare-could-hit-earth-within-100-years/

TheValeyard

TV show 'Revolution'. No more electricity. Humans go back to the 18th century.

begsbyOnaTrain

Imagine a solar flare hitting Europe right now, frying comms and causing mayhem with our grid and infrastructure. Things would be unrecognisable in three days.

facehugger99

We're only 3 meals away from anarchy.

A global event would lead to a complete collapse of what we think of as 'society' in an incredibly short space of time.

People don't have any conception of the complexity (and vulnerability) of the food supply lines that lead up to them picking something off a supermarket shelf.

randd1

TheValeyard wrote: »

TV show 'Revolution'. No more electricity. Humans go back to the 18th century.

What a pile of ****e that turned out to be. A great opportunity for a good TV show missed.

Sleepy

If left to my own devices, I reckon I'd do okay at keeping our family alive in such circumstances. I'm fairly handy with DIY and problem solving, my house is 200 yards from the ocean (so fishing would provide at least some food), there's a few acres of unused land behind the house that could be foraged and farmed, lots of rabbits about that could be hunted / trapped and farmed, and the garden could be used to grow spuds and a variety of veg pretty quickly.

The real worries in such a world would be being preyed upon by some crazy with a shotgun or having a medical emergency.

The One Doctor

It'll happen in the UK soon enough.

Markcheese

Sleepy wrote: »

If left to my own devices, I reckon I'd do okay at keeping our family alive in such circumstances. I'm fairly handy with DIY and problem solving, my house is 200 yards from the ocean (so fishing would provide at least some food), there's a few acres of unused land behind the house that could be foraged and farmed, lots of rabbits about that could be hunted / trapped and farmed, and the garden could be used to grow spuds and a variety of veg pretty quickly.

The real worries in such a world would be being preyed upon by some crazy with a shotgun or having a medical emergency.

But how long could it take you to start growing your own food, or how long before someone else decided to nick your fishing gear...
If society is just days or hours from breaking down, it's fuel and computer connectivity that'll break everything, if the computers don't work no fuel, no electricity.. No transport, no processing no food...

touts

Throughout history the rulers were always the biggest scumbag in the locality. That's why you should always be polite to the criminal classes. One day that lad walking the two pitbulls while wearing a bullet proof vest could be your Lord. We're only one big burp from the sun away from that happening

Your Face

It could happen after a catastrophe but it wouldn't be instant anarchy.

Also as farming becomes agribusiness, you could not rely on the country side to quickly provided food either, a farmer with a large dairy farm or beef farm probably has no notion about growing potatoes or keeping chicken or pigs they are getting most of their food for a supermarket like everyone else.

It not just having the land to grow food its about having the knowledge to produce it without modren machinery and pesticides.

Sleepy

"

Markcheese wrote: »

But how long could it take you to start growing your own food, or how long before someone else decided to nick your fishing gear...
If society is just days or hours from breaking down, it's fuel and computer connectivity that'll break everything, if the computers don't work no fuel, no electricity.. No transport, no processing no food...

That's why I prefaced my post with "if left to my own devices".

Growing enough to feed a family of four in isn't a huge task and doesn't require a huge amount of land when you live in an area that produces half the vegetables consumed in Ireland, especially when easily supplemented with fish / seaweed / mussels etc. The meals might get "interesting" while working through what's in the cupboards and waiting for the veggies to grow but I honestly think I could manage to keep us going fairly comfortably once I didn't have to fend off roaming scumbags.

In reality, we'd probably get killed off pretty quickly once someone wanted whatever we'd managed to produce.

topper75

Sleepy wrote: »

If left to my own devices, I reckon I'd do okay at keeping our family alive in such circumstances.

I appreciate the independent-mindedness Sleepy and hail you for it, but practically we cannot grow food that fast. Even in the height of summer, the fastest veg will take 2 weeks or more. Spuds - 2 months anyway min. Defending a successful crop against theft by other hard-up humans would also be impossible. Our fishing stocks are obliterated already - I no longer even bother going out in Sept with the mackerel rod. Say you even had up to 200 rabbits out back - that is not even a year of protein for a human family. You'd have to be careful what you take to let them breed. Again other humans will be on the take and might not be bothered doing so sustainably. Foraging in Ireland only really works in summer/autumn and takes a lot of savoir-faire.

The One Doctor wrote: »

It'll happen in the UK soon enough.

Will they all die like they did in 1972 before they joined the trading block?:P The 'no life outside the EU' narrative pushed by the Irish media and British remain lobby is really strong. I'm sorry Britain are leaving the trading block, but I accept their long-term sovereignty concerns and they'll actually be fine apart from a few small sacrifices. We in Ireland will just have to play on without them.:(

BattleCorp

Sleepy wrote: »

"
That's why I prefaced my post with "if left to my own devices".

Growing enough to feed a family of four in isn't a huge task and doesn't require a huge amount of land when you live in an area that produces half the vegetables consumed in Ireland, especially when easily supplemented with fish / seaweed / mussels etc. The meals might get "interesting" while working through what's in the cupboards and waiting for the veggies to grow but I honestly think I could manage to keep us going fairly comfortably once I didn't have to fend off roaming scumbags.

In reality, we'd probably get killed off pretty quickly once someone wanted whatever we'd managed to produce.

I think you are overconfident in your ability to grow crops fast. The food you have in the house would probably only last three or four weeks at best. If society fails, you won't have access to sprays etc. for potato blight. Lots of veg won't last through the winter etc. You'd want the crops growing now, and not planting them the week after society goes to sh1t.

The only realistic way to survive is to become a hunter. Do you have a gun and lots of ammo, snares etc.

Feck hunting rabbits, shoot the cow in the next field.

BattleCorp

BattleCorp wrote: »

I think you are overconfident in your ability to grow crops fast. The food you have in the house would probably only last three or four weeks at best. If society fails, you won't have access to sprays etc. for potato blight. Lots of veg won't last through the winter etc. You'd want the crops growing now, and not planting them the week after society goes to sh1t.

The only realistic way to survive is to become a hunter. Do you have a gun and lots of ammo, snares etc.

Feck hunting rabbits, shoot the cow in the next field.

But with out butchery skills or refrigeration or fule for an open fir to cook the meat would shooting some cattle really help you.

BattleCorp

mariaalice wrote: »

But with out butchery skills or refrigeration or fule for an open fir to cook the meat would shooting some cattle really help you.

If you were hungry you wouldn't care if your steak was neatly cut or not. You'd eat it raw if push came to shove. My Dad was a butcher and I've seen him slaughter animals. While I would be sh1te at it, I could manage to skin an animal and clean it out (eventually). I'd manage.

The human race has managed without fridges or freezers for all of time up until the last 100 years or so. I'm sure we'd manage without them again if we had to. Feck, lots of the world nowadays still don't have fridges and freezers.

Regarding fuel for open fires, trees.

The biggest problem would be other humans.

Kermit.de.frog

mariaalice wrote: »

In the book The Second Sleep by Robert Harris, the premise of which is that modern society collapsed and we reverted to sort of dark age due to the collapse in technology, listing to him being interviewed he believes it could happen very quickly, most people can't repair their stuff themselves, most people only have a few days food in their house if even that, we tap to pay for most things so we would very quickly have no acesses to money in a technology disruption.


Could society disintegrate like that or as a society are we more resourceful?

One decent sized solar flare aimed this direction and it will be planet of the apes within a day.

See 1859 for reference...and imagine what a similar event would do today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859

A lot of people are so dependent on modern technology that they can't do basic things just to survive that their grandparents would have been able to do.

The reason for that is perfectly logical but will be devastating when, not if, it's all disrupted.

Sleepy

BattleCorp wrote: »

I think you are overconfident in your ability to grow crops fast. The food you have in the house would probably only last three or four weeks at best. If society fails, you won't have access to sprays etc. for potato blight. Lots of veg won't last through the winter etc. You'd want the crops growing now, and not planting them the week after society goes to sh1t.

The only realistic way to survive is to become a hunter. Do you have a gun and lots of ammo, snares etc.

Feck hunting rabbits, shoot the cow in the next field.

That's becoming clear to me tbh. Only things I have growing atm are spring onions, assorted herbs and some strawberries. Getting stuff planted as soon as possible would be a priority and, no doubt extremely time consuming without modern pesticides. Say it takes 6 to 8 weeks to start seeing some crops and we've 3/4 weeks worth of stuff in the house.

Where I live we're surrounded by blackberry bushes, wild garlic and even a few apple trees so we'd have those (might have to give up fermenting the blackberries into wine though!), the aforementioned rabbits, whatever I could catch from the ocean / forage from the shoreline etc. and I think we'd make it through to the point where the veg should be starting to come in. We'd all lose some weight I'm sure, but I don't think we'd starve.

There's a colony of seals nearby too which would be a high calorie source if we could successfully hunt them in a kayak...

The key to surviving long-term would be in managing to diversify your food sources and learning to preserve what you can forage / hunt / grow.

Independent survival on small-holdings is how much of the planet still survives. Most of us on this forum are probably only 3/4 generations away from it ourselves.

The biggest threat would be what it's always been: other humans.

For those interested in such a scenario, I'd recommend Lewis Dartnell's "The Knowledge - How to Rebuild Civilization in the Aftermath of a Cataclysm". Though, if you believe you'll ever need it, go for the physical book rather than a Kindle copy!

BattleCorp

Sleepy wrote: »

The biggest threat would be what it's always been: other humans.

I think a gun is an essential in a scenario like that. Kill or be killed.

Baron Kurtz

Let it Happen by Tame Impala is all I thought about as a reaction to the thread.

Ipso

Like in The Road, there will be basements full of people being kept alive so they can be eaten.