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Non reg puppies

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  • 17-09-2019 7:06pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭


    Hi everyone,
    I’m in the early stages of planning to get a puppy.
    I’d love to adopt a small to medium puppy something like a cocker spaniel and keeping an eye on the rescue sites but nothing suitable so far or I’ve been unsuccessful because a lot of people want puppies! I’ve also looked at buying a pure bred puppy and something that has come up a lot is pure bred non registered. My question is why would a pup not be registered? The dog would be a pet and be neutered at 6 months so it doesn’t matter to me but I’m just wondering because I want to avoid supporting any puppy farm type situations. Any and all advice appreciated! Thanks in advance!


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,944 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    There are many reasons why pups are not registered.

    The bitch or sire were not registered
    The bitch was too young or too old to have puppies
    The bitch has already had too many litters
    Either the bitch or the sire is not a purebred
    These are just some of the reasons. To be honest if you are comming across this a lot then you are not looking in the right places for a pedigree puppy. It sounds like you are looking on online advert sites. These are not used by reputable sellers of puppies due to the type of clients they attract due to their nature.

    Decide on a breed then contact the relevant breed club for reputable breeders.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,274 ✭✭✭cocker5


    SuziXX wrote: »
    Hi everyone,
    I’m in the early stages of planning to get a puppy.
    I’d love to adopt a small to medium puppy something like a cocker spaniel and keeping an eye on the rescue sites but nothing suitable so far or I’ve been unsuccessful because a lot of people want puppies! I’ve also looked at buying a pure bred puppy and something that has come up a lot is pure bred non registered. My question is why would a pup not be registered? The dog would be a pet and be neutered at 6 months so it doesn’t matter to me but I’m just wondering because I want to avoid supporting any puppy farm type situations. Any and all advice appreciated! Thanks in advance!

    Where are you looking for a pup? Done deal.. adverts? Lots of back yard breeders / possible smaller puppy farms on here ..

    A rescue in mullingar has cocker spaniel cross puppies at the mo.,.. if you wait until the new year rescue centers will be flooded to gorgeous puppies dumped after Xmas .. including spaniels

    Do you mind if I ask are you a first time dog owner?

    If not have you owned a cocker before?


  • Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭SuziXX


    Thanks guys,

    Ya Ive looked everywhere including done deal just to gather info at the moment, I’ve found the names of breeders but I don’t know if I want to go down that route yet. I’m a first time dog owner, our circumstances wouldn’t have allowed us to have a dog until this year so I’ve been waiting a long time for this! I had a golden cocker as a child.
    Thanks for directing me to those spaniel puppies, I found them after you post but they’re both gone now unfortunately.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,274 ✭✭✭cocker5


    SuziXX wrote: »
    Thanks guys,

    Ya Ive looked everywhere including done deal just to gather info at the moment, I’ve found the names of breeders but I don’t know if I want to go down that route yet. I’m a first time dog owner, our circumstances wouldn’t have allowed us to have a dog until this year so I’ve been waiting a long time for this! I had a golden cocker as a child.
    Thanks for directing me to those spaniel puppies, I found them after you post but they’re both gone now unfortunately.

    Rescue on Facebook.. look them all up they get puppies in every week you never know you might find your puppy.

    Cockers are amazing dogs., but they are hard work though particularly as puppies, not an easy first time dog .. not trying to put you off or anything but being truthful ..

    Do you mind if I ask do you both work full time etc?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,274 ✭✭✭cocker5


    SuziXX wrote: »
    Thanks guys,

    Ya Ive looked everywhere including done deal just to gather info at the moment, I’ve found the names of breeders but I don’t know if I want to go down that route yet. I’m a first time dog owner, our circumstances wouldn’t have allowed us to have a dog until this year so I’ve been waiting a long time for this! I had a golden cocker as a child.
    Thanks for directing me to those spaniel puppies, I found them after you post but they’re both gone now unfortunately.

    If you do go down the breeder route go directly to IKC .. most decent breeders will have a waiting list .. do not go via done deal / adverts


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  • Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭SuziXX


    Ya we both work full time but not the same hours, there would be 2 days we would have to have the dog minded. We need a small/medium dog that isn’t too big and strong but can keep up with us running hiking etc. Is a dog being registered a way of telling it has been ethically bred?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,274 ✭✭✭cocker5


    SuziXX wrote: »
    Ya we both work full time but not the same hours, there would be 2 days we would have to have the dog minded. We need a small/medium dog that isn’t too big and strong but can keep up with us running hiking etc. Is a dog being registered a way of telling it has been ethically bred?

    I’m going to be honest and say I don’t know a huge amount about ethically breeding but another poster on here .. Knine will be able to advise you !

    Please be aware though that a puppy up until the age of 1-2 ish won’t be able to running and hiking .. yes def as an adult but not for the first 1-2 years or you’ll damage their joints .. there’s a 5 mins rule for exercise per month of age .. otherwise your pup will end up with all sorts of joint issues .. so at 6 months max of 30 mins.. this rule is for all puppies not just cockers! On the neutering at 6 months .. do some research there are some suggestions early neutering can lead to hip dysplasia (assuming a pre existing gene there already) .. they now suggest waiting until the dog is fully grown .. not saying it’s 100% but look into it

    My cocker was brilliant at hiking etc and loved the great outdoors .. they are fab dogs

    But they don’t like being alone and can be very destructive if left for long periods ie more than 4 hours .. they are needy little dogs and sensitive but wonderfully affectionate.

    For running / hiking most aren’t great off lead / poor recall due to the prey drive / hunting dog mentality so you’ll more than likely need to keep her / him on lead while out (from my experience)

    Just some points to note !


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,274 ✭✭✭cocker5


    Ps sorry my Cody was 18kg so on the big side for a cocker .. but my god he was strong as an ox when he wanted to be :) and pulled like a mad man for a while


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭Choc Chip


    I've 2, 2wk old spaniel puppies I'm bottle-feeding for a rescue right now OP so they are out there. A lot of time they go before they're advertised to people who are waiting for puppies, so if you register with a rescue they'll often let you know when something comes in that might suit.

    Knine is definitely the person to talk to about responsible breeding. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,274 ✭✭✭cocker5


    Choc Chip wrote: »
    I've 2, 2wk old spaniel puppies I'm bottle-feeding for a rescue right now OP so they are out there. A lot of time they go before they're advertised to people who are waiting for puppies, so if you register with a rescue they'll often let you know when something comes in that might suit.

    Knine is definitely the person to talk to about responsible breeding. :)

    Do you mind if I ask what colour Choc Chip? ☺️


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭Choc Chip


    cocker5 wrote: »
    Do you mind if I ask what colour Choc Chip? ☺️

    I have a brown/white one and a black/white one. Both girls. :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭Knine


    Do not buy unregistered puppies. They are several reasons why & the main ones are that the Breeder wants to cut costs. It is not cheap to register a litter, register a kennel name etc. What other corners have they cut in rearing this litter? The IKC has strict age, number of litters criteria & breeders not registering pups can avoid these.

    Just also note that being registered does not always mean a reputable breeder either. If both parents are registered then anyone can apply to register the puppies. The key is going through the breed Clubs, going to meet the breeder, going to Club events etc. Many of my puppies go to owners who I have been speaking to regularly for up to a year beforehand. A Reputable Breeder will be very fussy as to who gets one of their puppies & there can be waiting lists.

    I've had Cockers, they are quite a strong breed for their size & they need plenty of grooming. Very bright intelligent dogs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭SuziXX


    Chic chip is it possible for you to pm me the name of the rescue? Many thanks!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,274 ✭✭✭cocker5


    Choc Chip wrote: »
    I have a brown/white one and a black/white one. Both girls. :D

    Ohhh sweet Jesus my heart did a little flutter.. black (and white) ones are my all time favorite x I hope they get wonderful new homes x


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭Choc Chip


    cocker5 wrote: »
    Ohhh sweet Jesus my heart did a little flutter.. black (and white) ones are my all time favorite x I hope they get wonderful new homes x

    Come visit. I'll put you down for a few night feeds. :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,274 ✭✭✭cocker5


    Choc Chip wrote: »
    Come visit. I'll put you down for a few night feeds. :pac:

    Ha ha would love to .. problem is I couldn’t leave without one of them!! Fair play to you for looking after them x


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭sillysmiles


    Entirely off topic I understand - but Choc Chip - do to mind me asking - what is your situation that you are able to mind these little fellas? Do you work from home/at home.
    Fostering is on my mind but we both work so wondering how others do it.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭Choc Chip


    From home and for myself. Some international travel so dont foster while away. Just happen to have 3 months off travelling right now. Some meetings, but say I have 2 tomorrow and an overseas call but can work them around feedings (getting in to arrange meetings before others can works well).

    I normally foster older dogs as they're far easier.

    I wouldn't get a pup myself right now as it's enough for my partner to do to look after our 2 dogs if I'm away for 2 or 3 weeks, but hopefully in future.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,959 ✭✭✭jimf


    cocker5 wrote: »
    Ha ha would love to .. problem is I couldn’t leave without one of them!! Fair play to you for looking after them x

    that might be why you got an invite :D


    they know how good an owner you are :P


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    OP, if you want a dog for hiking with I'd recommend going with an adult rescue as they would be good to go pretty much immediately (you'd probably have to build their fitness up) while with a puppy it would be months before they would be ok to run for long.

    My brother has a spaniel and he spends feckin' hours grooming burrs out of her, so be aware of that.

    There are many, many breeds that would be suitable for hiking: collies, Jack Russel terriers will go alllllllllllll day, gundogs like pointers, poodles, dalmatians are designed for distance running as are huskies; you could talk to someone who does cani-cross for ideas. Any dog can be trained to walk nicely on lead, and many breeds are fine in apartments once they get enough exercise; I have a pointer lurcher and my living room is pretty small.

    Stay away from sites like donedeal as, imo, they are full of puppy farmers


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,042 ✭✭✭✭tk123


    kylith wrote: »
    O
    My brother has a spaniel and he spends feckin' hours grooming burrs out of her, so be aware of that.

    He needs some Super Pear spray lol! I have terrible problems with burrs here since they've let the river bank grow wild. I picked 30 out of Lucy's fur one morning and lost count at the 30

    https://www.tesco.ie/groceries/product/details/?id=262549284


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭Choc Chip


    jimf wrote: »
    that might be why you got an invite :D


    they know how good an owner you are :P

    Wanna pop down Jimf? I've a brown and white one with your name on it too.

    Sorry OP - I'll stop dragging your thread off-topic now. :o


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,959 ✭✭✭jimf


    Choc Chip wrote: »
    Wanna pop down Jimf? I've a brown and white one with your name on it too.

    Sorry OP - I'll stop dragging your thread off-topic now. :o


    thanks cc but with a lunatic of a 18wo springer spaniel at the moment im puppied out :D:D

    maybe 1 more will give a bit of balance :D:D


    put on the kettle will bring the buns


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭Choc Chip


    jimf wrote: »
    put on the kettle will bring the buns

    You know the way to my heart! :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 769 ✭✭✭Roadtoad


    After having several IKC Spaniel dogs we got our present Spaniel from a non-reg source.

    We are totally not into breeding or showing, which are the only two 'hard' reasons for going pure. The people we met, kennels we visited and veterinary treatment certs were no different either way. We got an orange roan PBNR bitch, and our amateur eyes can see no difference, apart from an endearing fringe that no other Spaniel has!

    Showing: You'll need to not only go pure, but prize winning pure to bring home rosettes.
    Breeding: The more rosettes you have the better the pay day!

    Yeah, and the rosette-proud breeder we got one bitch from (when we were entertaining thoughts of showing) duped us with a pup swop, giving us a different one than promised with an over-bite that was never going to win anything other than the local puppy show.

    Buyer beware! Know why you want an IKC dog.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭Knine


    Roadtoad wrote: »
    After having several IKC Spaniel dogs we got our present Spaniel from a non-reg source.

    We are totally not into breeding or showing, which are the only two 'hard' reasons for going pure. The people we met, kennels we visited and veterinary treatment certs were no different either way. We got an orange roan PBNR bitch, and our amateur eyes can see no difference, apart from an endearing fringe that no other Spaniel has!

    Showing: You'll need to not only go pure, but prize winning pure to bring home rosettes.
    Breeding: The more rosettes you have the better the pay day!

    Yeah, and the rosette-proud breeder we got one bitch from (when we were entertaining thoughts of showing) duped us with a pup swop, giving us a different one than promised with an over-bite that was never going to win anything other than the local puppy show.

    Buyer beware! Know why you want an IKC dog.

    The other hard reasons are that the IKC has strict breeding criteria concerning the age, number of litters, space between litters, c sections etc. Your unregistered breeder like you brought from can avoid that loophole & is usually the main reason they don't register. They can make more money out of the unfortunate bitch. Also lower quality dogs are frequently not registered.

    There is far more to showing then rosettes. Did the reputable Breeder you brought from not discuss the dogs bite when sold?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭Choc Chip


    Roadtoad wrote: »
    We are totally not into breeding or showing, which are the only two 'hard' reasons for going pure. The people we met, kennels we visited and veterinary treatment certs were no different either way.

    Buyer beware! Know why you want an IKC dog.

    Those wouldn't be my main reasons for going IKC registered. I'm far more interested in:

    1. The parents:
    Parent's temperaments. Why was the breeding done? What was the breeder hoping for from the match and from each parent?

    2. Raising pups

    What has the breeder done with the pups?

    I've a spreadsheet here for my foster pups (may not be pure bred, def not registered) - they've been exposed to car rides, our vacuum, washing machine, dryer and my own dogs. The neighbour's kids are here most days and they get time with my own dogs most days. I've played fireworks and traffic sounds to them and they've been brought out for a quick look at the outside world inside my jacket. They have a variety of toys that are rotated out, and they have an area to pee and poo in which they're getting pretty good at hitting - they're 5 weeks today. I've done more, and still have a list of things to do with them over the next few weeks that's longer than my arm so that they'll go out into the real world with the best start that I can give them.

    I'm not trying to show off - you should expect this when you get a pup. Expect the breeder to tell you what they've done with the pups and identify what you still have to work on. If you're getting a pet dog, expect it to have been raised in a house and know what household sounds are like. I've got a huge amount of respect for good breeders - raising solid puppies is tough.

    The above is for a pet dog. I'm not even thinking about what I'd want if I was looking for a dog to show or do sports with.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭Choc Chip


    BTW, in case the above wasn't clear, I don't advocate buying unreg puppies (with the exception of certain working dogs and rescues).

    If the breeder can't be bothered with the relatively minor hassle of registering the pups, I'd assume that they haven't bothered to raise the pups properly, or there is a reason that they can't register them (e.g. not meeting IKC breeding criteria).


  • Registered Users Posts: 769 ✭✭✭Roadtoad


    Choc Chip wrote: »
    Those wouldn't be my main reasons for going IKC registered. I'm far more interested in:

    1. The parents:
    ............

    2. Raising pups
    ............

    What has the breeder done with the pups?

    Yeah but they are not 'hard' or measurable parameters. A look around the house/shed/garden/family is all you can use to judge your new pup's environment.
    Knine wrote: »
    ......Did the reputable Breeder you brought from not discuss the dogs bite when sold?
    (you used the word 'reputable' not me)
    Not a whisper. And he swopped the chosen pup (with far more interesting markings) for a more monochromatic pup. I was trapped because I had the kids with me on the second visit. Sucker punch, but I wanted them to be part of the new marriage process.

    Jeepers, its all coming back slowly. The IKC breeder said that the bitch was going to 'move on', as this was the second litter with only 2 or 3 pups! Easy to see what his motivations were.

    I accept (and did not previously know) that there was a limit on the frequency/age of IKC breeding bitches. Good work, but I'm not sure if my aunt with 10 kids was any more or less a mother than my aunt with two.

    OK, another whinge: I contacted the IKC the last time I wanted a pup, they passed me to the Leinster Cocker branch, and I got nothing useful from them. Reply like 'nothing here at the moment', and not much interested in passing my name to other breeders, as measured by the phone that never buzzed.

    Just trying to give the OP a more rounded heads-up. I've never bred any of my canine buddies.

    I'll leave it here and go back to my more usual Boards haunts.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭Choc Chip


    Roadtoad wrote: »
    Yeah but they are not 'hard' or measurable parameters. A look around the house/shed/garden/family is all you can use to judge your new pup's environment.

    No way - I'd expect to have many conversations with whoever raised my pup. And I'd expect them to have a lot of questions for me too. Probably a visit before I collect, and they should be more than keen to show you videos/pics of the pups doing different things. With facebook, a lot of breeders have private groups where you can follow a litter's progress as they grow.
    Roadtoad wrote: »
    I was trapped because I had the kids with me on the second visit. Sucker punch, but I wanted them to be part of the new marriage process.

    I'd walk away if someone swapped a pup on me last minute with no explanation or prior warning, no matter who was with me. You're taking on a dog that could be with you for 12 - 14 years or longer. You shouldn't ever feel pressured into making that decision and if I was, I'd walk away.


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