Rapid falling battery health

man in a can

Hi folks,

I'm looking for some advice regarding a 152 nissan leaf I bought in July. At the time I bought it, leaf spy was showing 99.3 SOH. Even though it had 63k on the clock i chose this car over numerous others that had less milage but also less SOH in the same price bracket.

After 6 weeks I ran leaf spy and the SOH was 87%. I have used the 80% charge since I bought the car as this was selected when I bought it and I beleived (possibly in error) that this what had kept the battery in good shape.

I have informed the dealer and am waiting on their response.
I was wondering
a) has anyone seen this behaviour before and can they explain it?
b) any suggestions on what i can do?

Four weeks later and its still at 87% so I think this was the realistic figure.

ELM327

Pretty usual for SOH to drop and fluctuate, in hotter temperature it can be inflated and deflated in winter. Mine used to fluctuate between 94 and 89, it was showing 91 on the day I sold it (141 24kWh with 105k on the clock).

If you're concerned about it, drive to near zero and granny charge to 100 a couple of times (dont use a timer and don't disconnect until the car is done balancing) and that will even out the BMS

Gumbo

man in a can wrote: »

Hi folks,

I'm looking for some advice regarding a 152 nissan leaf I bought in July. At the time I bought it, leaf spy was showing 99.3 SOH. Even though it had 63k on the clock i chose this car over numerous others that had less milage but also less SOH in the same price bracket.

After 6 weeks I ran leaf spy and the SOH was 87%. I have used the 80% charge since I bought the car as this was selected when I bought it and I beleived (possibly in error) that this what had kept the battery in good shape.

I have informed the dealer and am waiting on their response.
I was wondering
a) has anyone seen this behaviour before and can they explain it?
b) any suggestions on what i can do?

Four weeks later and its still at 87% so I think this was the realistic figure.

87% SOH is about right for the 151 car.

KCross

man in a can wrote: »

Hi folks,

I'm looking for some advice regarding a 152 nissan leaf I bought in July. At the time I bought it, leaf spy was showing 99.3 SOH.

After 6 weeks I ran leaf spy and the SOH was 87%.

A 12% drop is not normal in 6 weeks but 87% is about right for that age car.

The most likely explanation is that a BMS reset was done by the dealer before they sold it to you which puts the car back at 100% but it will recalculate the true SoH as you drive the car and recharge it a few times.

Does the dealer you bought from have LeafSpy, do you know?

n97 mini

Pretty much what KCross said. 87% is about right and it sounds like the BMS was reset. Did you buy it from a Nissan dealer?

There was someone in one of the FB groups who bought a Leaf which then lost 4 bars in 6 weeks.

KCross

Its basically the EV version of clocking a car. If the dealer did that (quite likely by the sounds of it) they should be taken to task on it.

Another possibility is the previous owner who traded it in did it. Will be hard to prove either way.

slave1

KCross wrote: »

The most likely explanation is that a BMS reset was done by the dealer before they sold it to you which puts the car back at 100%

Can someone explain this a bit more and would Leafspy be able to pick this up?

KCross

n97 mini wrote: »

There was someone in one of the FB groups who bought a Leaf which then lost 4 bars in 6 weeks.

omg... how did that work out?
Was it from a dealer or a private sale? Did they complain or get any satisfaction from the seller?

KCross

slave1 wrote: »

Can someone explain this a bit more and would Leafspy be able to pick this up?

LeafSpy has access to the computer. It can read error codes and reset them and it has another button which allows you to reset the BMS which resets the SoH bars to 100%.

Its a short lived thing as the BMS will recalibrate the SoH value once it goes through a few charge/discharge cycles and it figures out what the battery can handle.

There is no reason to reset the BMS unless you want to conceal the fact that the battery is degraded or for some software update reason which only a Nissan dealer would be doing.

man in a can

KCross wrote: »

A 12% drop is not normal in 6 weeks but 87% is about right for that age car.

The most likely explanation is that a BMS reset was done by the dealer before they sold it to you which puts the car back at 100% but it will recalculate the true SoH as you drive the car and recharge it a few times.

Does the dealer you bought from have LeafSpy, do you know?

Yes, they have leaf spy and had the car advertised as 99% battery.
I didnt know that the BMS could be reset, but they must as they are in the business of EV's.

rolion

Recently have checked 3 Leafs L24 for my friends with LeafSpy and SOH, all three came as 4 % degradation per year.

man in a can

Does anyone know if there is any comeback on this?
I take it the fault is with the seller as they are advertising/selling a car that is clocked whether they carried out the reset or not.

KCross

man in a can wrote: »

Does anyone know if there is any comeback on this?
I take it the fault is woith the seller as they are advertising/selling a car that is clocked whether they carried out the reset or not.

Thats a tough one... to prove fraud on their part you'd have to prove that they did the reset rather than the previous owner. I dont think you'll be able to do that unless you can get them to admit it!

Having said that, you've noticed the issue and reported it to them so they need to take responsibility for that as its clearly not acceptable to lose 12% in 6 weeks. There isnt anything they can do to get the battery to 99% but you could look for some money back... could be an energy sapping fight though.

What response did they give you?
I'd stand in front of the salesman (rather than phone call) tell him you believe they reset it and see what kind of body language you get.

AhHaor

My SOH of health on a 151 75k km leaf 24 has gone through this cycle, Sept 2018 87% Dec 2018 91% Jan 2019 99.1% March 90% July 87% Today 91%.

SOH is a good indicator, but if you don't have a years worth of values I'm not sure you can infer anything about the car other than it gives a good snapshot at that time.

man in a can

KCross wrote: »

Thats a tough one... to prove fraud on their part you'd have to prove that they did the reset rather than the previous owner. I dont think you'll be able to do that unless you can get them to admit it!

Having said that, you've noticed the issue and reported it to them so they need to take responsibility for that as its clearly not acceptable to lose 12% in 6 weeks. There isnt anything they can do to get the battery to 99% but you could look for some money back... could be an energy sapping fight though.

What response did they give you?
I'd stand in front of the salesman (rather than phone call) tell him you believe they reset it and see what kind of body language you get.

TBH, i dont think it was the seller, i believe they are a good company and doing stuff like this in such a small market would not be worth it. I reckon they have been duped as much as me, if it was down to a reset BMS.

slave1

That's a poor reflection on the Leafspy developer so

KCross

AhHaor wrote: »

My SOH of health on a 151 75k km leaf 24 has gone through this cycle, Sept 2018 87% Dec 2018 91% Jan 2019 99.1% March 90% July 87% Today 91%.

SOH is a good indicator, but if you don't have a years worth of values I'm not sure you can infer anything about the car other than it gives a good snapshot at that time.

I'd be thinking that that reading was a bad one in some way as all the others make sense and are normal. The SoH does go up and down based on temp/season but only by a few percent (<5%).

Swinging from 91% in Dec to 99% in Jan and back to 90% again in Mar isnt normal. Going from 87-91-90-87-91 is perfectly normal.

I'd say your 99% figure was bad in some way. Maybe LeafSpy had a bad connection or something... i dont know really but it doesnt make any sense really.

AhHaor

KCross wrote: »

I'd be thinking that that reading was a bad one in some way as all the others make sense and are normal. The SoH does go up and down based on temp/season but only by a few percent (<5%).

Swinging from 91% in Dec to 99% in Jan and back to 90% again in Mar isnt normal. Going from 87-91-90-87-91 is perfectly normal.

I'd say your 99% figure was bad in some way. Maybe LeafSpy had a bad connection or something... i dont know really but it doesnt make any sense really.

It was a real figure,

previous ones go like this, 98.26, 98.63, 98.63, 98.75, 98.96, 99.1, 99.2, 97.76, 97.35, 96.63, 96.64, 97, 96.8 and they bounce around 97 until Feb. Today I'm at 89.24 trending upwards

Soarer

man in a can wrote: »

TBH, i dont think it was the seller, i believe they are a good company and doing stuff like this in such a small market would not be worth it. I reckon they have been duped as much as me, if it was down to a reset BMS.

If they're in the EV business, they knew damn well there's no way the car could have a SOH of 99%+.

KCross

AhHaor wrote: »

It was a real figure,

previous ones go like this, 98.26, 98.63, 98.63, 98.75, 98.96, 99.1, 99.2, 97.76, 97.35, 96.63, 96.64, 97, 96.8 and they bounce around 97 until Feb. Today I'm at 89.24 trending upwards

Fair enough. Its a bit odd to be jumping ~10% up and down again in the space of 2-3 months. That isnt typical.

DrPhilG

man in a can wrote: »

Yes, they have leaf spy and had the car advertised as 99% battery.

man in a can wrote: »

they are in the business of EV's.

These 2 statements together make me suspicious.

Someone specialising in the EV business would know full well that 99% SOH on a 4 year old Leaf is essentially impossible. So for them to highlight that fact in their advert raises my eyebrow.

Unless it's a battery report from Nissan Leaf Spy isn't really going to get you anything.

Leafs, at least from late 2013 - 2016 24 Kwh tend to show higher battery capacity when fast charged a lot. And can vary by 8%. If you call fast charging a 24 Kwh Leaf fast charging.........

Klemantine

Recently bought a used Nissan Leaf, and now I have some problems with the battery, it is charging hard, but I can make a maximum of 100km with it, can you tell me what is the problem? When I bought it I could do almost 200km

KCross

Klemantine wrote: »

Recently bought a used Nissan Leaf, and now I have some problems with the battery, it is charging hard, but I can make a maximum of 100km with it, can you tell me what is the problem? When I bought it I could do almost 200km

Go to Nissan. They will interrogate the battery and fix it under warranty if it is actually doing what you are saying its doing.

Klemantine

Klemantine wrote: »

Recently bought a used Nissan Leaf, and now I have some problems with the battery, it is charging hard, but I can make a maximum of 100km with it, can you tell me what is the problem? When I bought it I could do almost 200km

This is not a way to judge battery health, the GOM "Guess-O-Meter" is what we call the range estimate, it is an estimate and how you drive it one day will show a different reading the next.

100 Km sounds about right for a late 2013 + updated model 24 Kwh Leaf.

unkel

Klemantine wrote: »

When I bought it I could do almost 200km

Have you actually ever done almost 200km in it on one charge? Or is it the range displayed in the car? Is yours the 24kWh model or the 30kWh model or the newer shape 40kWh model? What year?

KCross

Personally I think its a troll post which is why I said go to Nissan.

A 24kWh Leaf would never be able to do 200km or even show that on the GOM which means it would have to be a 30kWh or 40kWh Leaf both of which are still under manufacturers warranty and clearly the first place you would go if your range dropped from 200km to 100km. I just smell a rat with the post tbh.

I never noticed but when I saw 6 posts , I am now suspicious.

Gumbo

Deleted User wrote: »

I never noticed but when I saw 6 posts , I am now suspicious.

100%.
Look at the sh1t they have posted for their other 5 posts.

Calahonda52

Klemantine wrote: »

Recently bought a used Nissan Leaf, and now I have some problems with the battery, it is charging hard, but I can make a maximum of 100km with it, can you tell me what is the problem? When I bought it I could do almost 200km

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n97 mini

KCross wrote: »

omg... how did that work out?
Was it from a dealer or a private sale? Did they complain or get any satisfaction from the seller?

From a small time dealer who said he bought it from Nissan. I don't know how it worked out in the end; either she didn't post or I didn't see it. Not on FB much these days.