Controlling Housemate

LegacyUser

I moved into a new house 2 months ago with 2 other people in the house. We are all in our late 30's. One is a guy who is very easy going and nice, the other, a woman, loves to create drama out of nothing with me as a target and I just don't know how to deal with her.

She likes to keep the large kitchen and sitting room almost devoid of personal items and everything has it's exact place to the mm and she's obsessive about the cleaning. When I first moved in I put a few items in the kitchen which are small and pretty which I use everyday. She quickly moved my butter dish into the fridge and I told her not to touch my stuff that if she has issues with them to speak to me. Since then she has been moving various items around to where she thinks they should go. I kept moving them back recognising this as a control issue. Then one weekend she actually put my new lamp I bought for the sitting room into storage and put away a cushion and throw. I asked her why and she said she "wanted the place to look nice when her friends came around". This resulted in a heated argument resulting in her shouting at me and I had to walk away. I don't believe she did have friends over as there was no sign of any bottles and she never socialises.

She spends ALL her time in the house, doesn't seem to have any social life or hobbies. I think she has a need to control everything in the house. She is extremely angry with me because I didn't ask her permission before putting out my few personal items. She is now attacking me on whatsapp in front of my housemate and landlord/landlady saying I do no cleaning which is not true at all and how she is being treated unfairly and feels uncomfortable due to me. The other housemate has no problems with me and is clearly not mental like this woman is. She has been the same with him and another housemate for the past 2 years as well. Moving things, saying they don't clean, etc. He has learned to ignore her and keep out of her way.

I cant rationalise with her. She's bullying, lying, manipulative but definitely not charming. From what I heard the landlords don't like her but I haven't told them yet about all this. They would have an idea due to the Whatsapp messages from her. I just don't know how to deal with her. I have no problem standing up for myself but nothing I say makes any difference. The drama keeps coming.

Xterminator

Hi Op

You do know anything you can say or do will not change this persons behavior? If you start from that assumption then you understand what you can do. She thinks because she is there longer than you she gets to set the rules.

your choices are you can play docile and hope for a quiet life, report her to the landlord and hope they get involved and come down on your side, or continue as you are and expect the drama. Or move out.

You could play the game clever and get the other tenant on your side, and make sure you keep record of any unreasonable action your flatmate does with a witness where possible. Use this evidence to report problem person - claiming the high moral ground.

lastusername

It may or may not be of any use to you OP, but while at a surface level it may seem that the issues are about this woman's need to control, but it's more about how she sees her world. It has nothing to do with you or you rightly wanting to put some of your stuff around the kitchen or living room.

Everybody operates from their own level of consciousness, based on what looks real to them. It sounds like she might be feeling very introverted and awkward, anxious and uncertain, and controlling the appearance of the house may be one of the few if not the only ways she feels she has to 'control her world'.

I would probably take a different view of it, at least to start. I would forget the surface level stuff and ask her (not in a patronising way, of course!), if there is anything you guys can help her with to help all of you feel more comfortable in the house.

It doesn't have to be phrased that way of course, and it could be very useful to have the other housemate join you, but really it's about asking or suggesting something to her that bypasses the surface level issues and cuts to the heart of what's going on beneath.

Of course, she may stonewall and there may be no talking to her! In which case, you may want to adopt a similar approach to the other housemate, talk to the landlord, or find somewhere else.

ted1

Butter shouldn’t be in the fridge, only margarine should . She may have a mild dose of OCD. Don’t give in, but do find common ground

Dial Hard

Have you posted about this before? It all sounds very familiar.

antix80

Op, stop putting things in shared areas without permission from all housemates.

If you have a cupboard in the kitchen, that's where your stuff should be. Not on the worktop.

If you find a lovely lamp, the best place for it is in your bedroom.

LegacyUser

antix80 wrote: »

Op, stop putting things in shared areas without permission from all housemates.

If you have a cupboard in the kitchen, that's where your stuff should be. Not on the worktop.

If you find a lovely lamp, the best place for it is in your bedroom.

This is terrible advice. The OP is paying rent to share a house/apartment, not to live in a bedroom. In any normal houseshare, you do not require permission to put a new throw in the sitting room, or to keep your butter at room temperature. Don't give in to her, there's no reason why things must be 'her way'. Could you try to have a house meeting where you can calmly explain to her that you are paying to share the house, and as part of that its reasonable to expect that some of your own belongings will be out in the sitting room/kitchen.
Whether she has OCD or not, she has no more claim to the house than you do, and has no right to control everything.

Daisy78

I used to live with a lady not at all dissimilar to your flatmate, like her she was a headcase. Constant giving out about cleaning, use of the shared space, etc. At the start I did my best to placate her, thinking the issue was mine not realising the fact that she had serious control issues. I eventually drew up a cleaning rota which I naively thought would bring about a truce and go some way resolving the toxic atmosphere. But no. She just moved on to other stuff which I won’t go into here. I’ve never met anyone so controlling and caustic and I hope never to again. She had leased the house for a couple of years of the landlord (who was lovely) and felt she could act whatever way she liked with tenants. I moved out after three years there when the landlord put it up for sale. My only regret was not moving sooner. I liked the house and it was close to work but the toxic atmosphere was unbearable.

If you think you will get somewhere with this lady by having a conversation by all means do but I’d bet the house that nothing will change. It’s not in her interest to change and it’s not in her to be able to change. Find somewhere else to live, life is too short to put up with that crap. Your home should be your sanctuary and you should be able to have your few things around you without someone throwing a hissy fit.

BrokenArrows

Op, just find somewhere new to live. Life is too short.

LegacyUser

Thanks everyone for the replies. I really appreciate getting other peoples perspective

Xterminator wrote: »

your choices are you can play docile and hope for a quiet life, report her to the landlord and hope they get involved and come down on your side, or continue as you are and expect the drama. Or move out.

I am aware those are my choices. I could play docile like my other housemate but I think she would still find things to give out about as she gives out about him in the past and continues to do so. Part of the reason the previous housemate that I replaced moved out is because she is so loud banging doors at 6am every morning waking up my housemate. She has been told about this issue a few times I think, goes quiet for a bit and is now back to being loud again. I'm a very deep sleeper so don't hear. She wont/cant change.

lastusername wrote: »

It may or may not be of any use to you OP, but while at a surface level it may seem that the issues are about this woman's need to control, but it's more about how she sees her world. It has nothing to do with you or you rightly wanting to put some of your stuff around the kitchen or living room.

You are completely right, this is about her need to control her tiny bit of the world due to feeling lack of control in other areas of her life or having a tough childhood situation. And through her eyes her behaviour is completely rational. I disrespected her by not asking her permission to put my things in the common area. It's not about the 'things' it's about the taking control away from her.

lastusername wrote: »

I would probably take a different view of it, at least to start. I would forget the surface level stuff and ask her (not in a patronising way, of course!), if there is anything you guys can help her with to help all of you feel more comfortable in the house.

I definitely wont be asking her this because her answer would be: a strict cleaning rota of all jobs needed to be done and when and to an impossibly high standard. Get rid of all personal items in the common area. Write out a calendar of everyones personal life schedule and when you will leave the house or have friends over (she actually tried to implement this previously). But maybe I will acknowledge her feelings and say I feel the same way and that neither of us should live like this.

Dial Hard wrote: »

Have you posted about this before? It all sounds very familiar.

Nope.

antix80 wrote: »

Op, stop putting things in shared areas without permission from all housemates.

Why should she get the veto on personal items in the common area? And btw, she has a few of HER personal items in the kitchen. Do I not have the right to make the house feel like my home if only in a small way? Do you know anyone who lives in a house with no personal items in the kitchen/sitting room? This is not normal or expected behaviour in a shared house or any house I've ever been in.

user102 wrote: »

This is terrible advice. The OP is paying rent to share a house/apartment, not to live in a bedroom. In any normal houseshare, you do not require permission to put a new throw in the sitting room, or to keep your butter at room temperature. Don't give in to her, there's no reason why things must be 'her way'. Could you try to have a house meeting where you can calmly explain to her that you are paying to share the house, and as part of that its {b}reasonable to expect that some of your own belongings will be out in the sitting room/kitchen. {b}
Whether she has OCD or not, she has no more claim to the house than you do, and has no right to control everything.

I agree with everything you say. A house meeting has been planned. She had initially tried to plan the meeting with the landlady so she could give me a roasting in front of her. I will try to be as calm and rational as I possibly can be. It'll be tough as she has so much anger in her and so loud.

Daisy78 wrote: »

I used to live with a lady not at all dissimilar to your flatmate, like her she was a headcase.

Your post really rings true. It's not in her interest to change and I don't think she ever will. I hate thinking about moving out as I love the house. It's huge, full of character, great location. It may be the only option if I want the place I live to feel like home. I'll see how the meeting goes and have a chat with the landlords about all this.

antix80

Sitting Duck wrote: »

. Why should she get the veto on personal items in the common area? And btw, she has a few of HER personal items in the kitchen. Do I not have the right to make the house feel like my home if only in a small way? Do you know anyone who lives in a house with no personal items in the kitchen/sitting room? This is not normal or expected behaviour in a shared house or any house I've ever been in.

Depends on the dynamic and who lived there first. The status quo is important to a lot of people. And maybe your style is gaudy.

Both of you sound as bad as each other. Why can't you communicate "do you mind if i replace the light shade, is it ok if i put a yankee candle by the fireplace"

Instead you're both being passive aggressive. See where it gets you.

tara73

Daisy78 wrote: »

If you think you will get somewhere with this lady by having a conversation by all means do but I’d bet the house that nothing will change. It’s not in her interest to change and it’s not in her to be able to change. Find somewhere else to live, life is too short to put up with that crap. Your home should be your sanctuary and you should be able to have your few things around you without someone throwing a hissy fit.

I agree with not changing this person, but why give in and move out without first trying to get her to move out? People like this will always come into your way, be it at house shares, work etc. You will always be on the run if giving in to them.

I would definetely contact the landlord and tell or write down all the stuff this woman is doing. You said you have the whatsapp messages to prove her nastyness.
I would talk to your other flatmate about your plan. He might be in for it too, but I would do it regardless if he's supporting or not.

LegacyUser

antix80 wrote: »

Depends on the dynamic and who lived there first. The status quo is important to a lot of people. And maybe your style is gaudy.

Both of you sound as bad as each other. Why can't you communicate "do you mind if i replace the light shade, is it ok if i put a yankee candle by the fireplace"

Instead you're both being passive aggressive. See where it gets you.

Again, this is dreadful advice. Regardless of who moved in first, both are presumably paying equal rent and have equal right to be there. If the OP asks the housemate if she can replace the lampshade, and if she can leave a candle in the sitting room, she is putting herself in the ridiculous position of having to run everything by the housemate first. Both people are adults. You absolutely cannot give in to people like this because they will walk all over you and you are setting the precedent that this is OK.

lainey_d_123

Dial Hard wrote: »

Have you posted about this before? It all sounds very familiar.

In fairness, I think most people who have house shared have lived with a version of this person. A bullying control freak who thinks they run the show because they were there first.

The advice that's been given so far is mostly on the money imo. Either just 'give in' for a quiet life, stand up to her and assert yourself or (preferably) try to find somewhere else to live where you don't need to be worrying about this absolute dose.

Daisy78

tara73 wrote: »

I agree with not changing this person, but why give in and move out without first trying to get her to move out? People like this will always come into your way, be it at house shares, work etc. You will always be on the run if giving in to them.

I would definetely contact the landlord and tell or write down all the stuff this woman is doing. You said you have the whatsapp messages to prove her nastyness.
I would talk to your other flatmate about your plan. He might be in for it too, but I would do it regardless if he's supporting or not.

Oh I agree but with her type I doubt very much you would get anywhere. At best she will keep her mouth shut about the living space but with a good deal of passive aggressive behavior to follow. The landlord probably won’t want to get involved, they don’t tend to get involved in tenant disputes.

In my case I tried to be reasonable and then had the more heated arguments but it changed nothing. The situation was bad from the get go and I regret wasting so much time there. Like I said the poster can try and reason with this woman who will hopefully see sense but if she doesn’t then I think for the posters own sanity she should look elsewhere.

Neyite

I've seen it a few times in flatshares and sorry to say I've never found a resolution other than moving out.

In my experience it's been usually women that do it and it's like they are playing a grown up version of house that they did as a kid. They see it as their house, particularly if they've been there longer than you. You are just a pesky inconvenience that makes the rent affordable for her and ideally she'd like you never be seen or heard at all and same goes for your belongings. They are unable to compromise with you and get worked up over the tiniest detail.



So, from my experiences I think you've a couple of options:
find somewhere else - but that will be tricky given how hard it is to find nice affordable rentals, or do what Laid-back guy does and leave her alone with her own bloody cushions and throws spending as little time in the house as possible, keeping everything in your room. As for your food items, you presumably have your own press? Keep your butter in there and make it absolutely crystal clear that what's in there is your business and she does not have the right to move your food.



Best of luck, she sounds like an awful dose.

I know a lady like the housemate described.

As neyite said, she behaved the same way as a kid.
This applies to the person I know too, to a tee.

Wanderer78

Unfortunately op, you may need to consider moving out, it sounds like this woman has some sort of complex disorder, which you won't be solving. Best of luck

black_and_blue

This is only one side of things. Had a housemate who moved in, tried to make the place their own which I had no issue with, they said they cleaned but it was done badly, as in dirty dishes back into the press, and then wouldn't even take out a shared bin. Not taking out bins is a very common issue in house shares. There's no point making a place your own if you don't even take out a bin. Not saying you don't take them out but I've had it all and it would drive me insane if someone made the place their own but then would let a bin over flow expecting someone else to take it out. Just my experience.

LegacyUser

black_and_blue wrote: »

This is only one side of things. Had a housemate who moved in, tried to make the place their own which I had no issue with, they said they cleaned but it was done badly, as in dirty dishes back into the press, and then wouldn't even take out a shared bin. Not taking out bins is a very common issue in house shares. There's no point making a place your own if you don't even take out a bin. Not saying you don't take them out but I've had it all and it would drive me insane if someone made the place their own but then would let a bin over flow expecting someone else to take it out. Just my experience.

I feel like you and the one other poster are completely missing what is actually going on. The woman is unreasonable. Me and the other housemate clean plenty and do it well. In fact she is the one that refuses to put the bins out for collection and lets them overflow outside. Even the landlord noticed this about her. I do whatever needs to be done as it comes up. Of course we don't clean to her ridiculously high standards, she would always find fault. Let me explain, there are 2 long countertops in the kitchen. I have 5 items belonging to me, 4 of which are in a corner on the countertop that is only ever used for displaying her bowl of fruit. I'm hardly taking over.

All the other advice is spot on and people's experiences reflect her exactly. She is like a kid that runs to Mammy and Daddy (landlords) to tell on me/us.

We had the house meeting at the weekend. I stayed calm and objective which I was happy about. We talked and listened to eachother although many times she couldn't stop herself from talking over me. She seemed to understand that I needed to make the place feel like I lived there and that it was bare. She thought my throw and my housemates rug were 'unfashionable' which is why she put them away. He explained again (as he had done at a previous house meeting) that this was to reduce her heavy footsteps from waking him up. She tried her best to argue against him as if he was committing a grave fashion sin but he held tight. Same with my throw, which I explained is on a second couch that neither of them use as it's to the side. I said she could put it away when her friends/family visit. She agreed.

She may just be paying lip service or find something else to give out about. I will see how it goes.