If it's an emergency ....

Irishphotodesk

RANDOM THOUGHT FOR TODAY

If our government have declared that we are in a climate emergency why are they not forcing laws to ensure survival of the world.

What I mean is.... essentially there are claims made that we are likely to die .... unless drastic changes are made within the next 15/20years the world's temperature will increase etc etc, polar ice caps melting, sea levels rising etc,

So why are the government and governments in other countries not making changes to laws to force people/companies to make the necessary changes to ensure survival of the planet..... Or are we being fed a lie ?

If climate action is as serious as we are told, why are governments not forcing changes on the people ?

antix80

2 reasons spring to mind.
1. Emergency would imply imminent danger.
2. Government can control the taxes without declaring an emergency and apparently the climate crisis can be averted by finding new streams of revenue.

I find your post disingenuous. You're wildly exaggerating for dramatic effect, in an effort to dismiss the reality of climate change.

Overheal

The kind of change required necessitates buy in from the populace; there would be immense backlash if a country eg. Unilaterally banned cars

Franz Von Peppercorn II

The only solution is a rationing system. Non transferable carbon ration cards per citizen.

Irishphotodesk

Overheal wrote: »

The kind of change required necessitates buy in from the populace; there would be immense backlash if a country eg. Unilaterally banned cars

But what if the government banned plastic packaging, an outright ban on selling it in the country, would that be a step towards saving the world or would companies revert to cutting down trees to make paper bags instead.

Put the onus of big companies to make the changes that will make an impact on the climate shoite we are hearing all the time.

Irishphotodesk

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I find your post disingenuous. You're wildly exaggerating for dramatic effect, in an effort to dismiss the reality of climate change.

I'm trying to understand why the government's are not making BIG changes - the information given to the public is effectively that the climate situation needs massive changes (and it's massive corporation's that are the main offenders , the ordinary individuals account for less than 5% of emissions worldwide)

* 5% figure is completely generated at random and may not be the actual figure.

NIMAN

The reason is because of the fact that a climate emergency can allow them to tax us more.

I said it a decade ago, if it was that bad they would ban any passenger car engine size over 1400cc.....4 and 5 litre cars aren't needed to ferry us about.

But they will let us drive whatever we want, as long as you are prepared to pay for it. Instead of them taking the decision out of our hands.

Then again, I do see ministers arriving in their diesel Audi's at Leinster House, so we aren't going to see things change.

Irishphotodesk

But does this mean that the climate situation is exaggerated ?

Or is it that politicians use the global movement to try to maximize tax intake, if so, why are politicians not tackled on the issues or called out for doing what they are doing ?

the_syco

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

within the next 15/20years

Because the politicians only care about getting re-elected in the next term, not something happening in the 15/20 years.

Irishphotodesk

the_syco wrote: »

Because the politicians only care about getting re-elected in the next term, not something happening in the 15/20 years.

But would forcing companies to make massive changes not be something which a political leader or party could consider to be their legacy, in sure any one of the parties would love to say they "saved the planet"

Overheal

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

But what if the government banned plastic packaging, an outright ban on selling it in the country, would that be a step towards saving the world or would companies revert to cutting down trees to make paper bags instead.

That kind of drastic action would have sweeping ramifications for trade and the economy given that almost all packaging for goods either takes the form of a paper-based material or a polymer based one. An economic recession would happen faster than cutting all those trees down but yes.

NIMAN

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

But does this mean that the climate situation is exaggerated ?

Or is it that politicians use the global movement to try to maximize tax intake, if so, why are politicians not tackled on the issues or called out for doing what they are doing ?

Possibly. Who really knows? They have said that the world faces severe problems if we don't tackle climate change before 2030, and it won't be able to be reversed after that, but I often find myself imagining my young kids sitting as old people in about 60 years time, with other things bothering them than climate change? Perhaps I'll be totally wrong.

As for politicians being called out? The people don't care, get real. There is no desire among the population to stop buying crap they don't need from China, flying away on planes several times a year, driving diesel cars etc, as long as they have their social media, reality TV and luxuries. Its a sad fact, but true.

Any politician with the balls to implement real change will find themselves voted out if it affects most peoples modern lifestyle.

mickdw

I firmly believe the whole movement has been captured by big business. Green tech is going to make a fortune on the back of government policy worldwide.
Governments are going to tax us wildly.
I genuinely believe that any climate change will be at a rate that man can deal with.

suicide_circus

the crisis has been monetised, therefore the crisis must continue.

Spanish Eyes

No point in us worrying about climate change and all that (but we may have to observe EU rules), if other countries don't give a fig and can just do what they want.

How is the Amazon doing now after the fires? Why did they start, and on we go.

the_syco

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

But would forcing companies to make massive changes not be something which a political leader or party could consider to be their legacy, in sure any one of the parties would love to say they "saved the planet"

Saved the planet, at the of cost of jobs, and thus would cost their job.

Mebuntu

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

So why are the government and governments in other countries not making changes to laws to force people/companies to make the necessary changes to ensure survival of the planet..... Or are we being fed a lie ?

If climate action is as serious as we are told, why are governments not forcing changes on the people ?

1. Because they know it's a load of nonsense but, like so many more, are afraid to say anything agin it. That's the way things are these days in so many respects.

2. Governments rub their hands with glee at any "good thing" that "justifies" stealing more money from the people by taxation.

biko

I have already started killing SUV drivers.













Joke, I drive a SUV myself

kowloon

Overheal wrote: »

The kind of change required necessitates buy in from the populace; there would be immense backlash if a country eg. Unilaterally banned cars

They need to stop having hissy fits about plastic straws before there can be talk of dealing more seriously.

Spanish Eyes

I am sceptical about this climate change mantra.

The snow is still there for ski lovers in Europe every Winter. Every time.

The sun is still HOT in Southern Spain every feckin year. What has changed?

Odyssey 2005

biko wrote: »

I have already started killing SUV drivers.
















Joke, I drive a SUV myself

Ah crap. I really hoped that was true. You could start outside my local school (when the yommy mommies deposit their offspring).





Joke also

Will I Am Not

The moment you question the actions or intentions of governments when it comes to climate change, you get branded a climate change denier or conspiracy theorist. Much like when you question immigration policy you get branded a racist or when you question the pitfalls of no questions asked, self identification in transsexuals you get branded transphobic.

Climate change can be real and still be taken advantage of for monetary gain. Just like those other things can be taken advantage of.

4068ac1elhodqr

If it was a genuine 'emergency' the gov would have met it's own target for planting trees, which it recently missed by 40,000 hectars.
The country’s tree-planting targets for 2015, 2016, and 2017 have ALL been missed.

climate 'emergency' = new stealth or increased taxes.

It (DoA) can say: “The target for new forestation is approximately 22 million trees per year. Over the next 20 years, the target is to plant 440 million.”
But the chances are that all targets will be missed, and Ireland wil still have the lowest tree coverage, of any significant EU country.
Much easier to tweet out some fancy PR blurb, and slip in some new green taxes.

Irishphotodesk

Will I Am Not wrote: »

The moment you question the actions or intentions of governments when it comes to climate change, you get branded a climate change denier or conspiracy theorist. Much like when you question immigration policy you get branded a racist or when you question the pitfalls of no questions asked, self identification in transsexuals you get branded transphobic.

Climate change can be real and still be taken advantage of for monetary gain. Just like those other things can be taken advantage of.

No one has called me that on this thread ....yet

It’s been pretty much accepted, the climate change situation may be there but the government are not making the necessary changes and are using it as an excuse to tax the living daylights out of everyone, with a plan to increase taxes in the coming years....under the guise of saving the planet.

NIMAN

No-one is doubting that man is doing damage to the planet, but I do wonder if it is really as bad as they leading us to believe?

I guess time will tell.

The planet won't die btw, it'll survive long after man. Its just that many millions might die or mankind in its entirety might vanish. But we aren't 'killing the planet'.

Grab All Association

Reading the thread tittle in my head in the voice of the boy Bart calls in Bart Vs Australia.

KyussB

The mainstream in business and government, in most of the world, is NeoLiberalism - this is the dominant dogma and current order of things.

Properly fighting climate change requires killing NeoLiberalism dead. That is why governments do not act. That's why the narrative has, until recently, been dominated with NeoLbieral market-based (non-)solutions to climate change, instead of advocating proper levels of government action, that are incompatible with NeoLiberalism's anti-government(-except-when-subsidizing-business/the-wealthy) core.

The Libertarian/oil-oligarch think tanks are doing their usual thing, and trying to whip people into a frenzy about 'the government' - that it's the government with ulterior motives, not the oil industry having ulterior motives... - they are the primary source of the propaganda trying to portray fighting climate change as a government conspiracy of some kind.

interactive

Its all horse ****.
In UK a few weeks ago they floated ideas to raise retirement age to 75, public outraged, they will come back in a few months and suggested a retirement age of 70, the public will lap it up , "much better that 75"

Same **** with the global warming horse ****, say its the end of the world, it will need a increase of taxes of 40%, public not happy , then EU will impose 10% tax and we will all say " thats much better than the 40% the Irish government wanted to impose on us, thank God we have the EU looking after us".
Its all bollox, just a money grab

NIMAN

interactive wrote: »

Its all horse ****.
In UK a few weeks ago they floated ideas to raise retirement age to 75, public outraged, they will come back in a few months and suggested a retirement age of 70, the public will lap it up , "much better that 75"

Same **** with the global warming horse ****, say its the end of the world, it will need a increase of taxes of 40%, public not happy , then EU will impose 10% tax and we will all say " thats much better than the 40% the Irish government wanted to impose on us, thank God we have the EU looking after us".
Its all bollox, just a money grab

A common tactic for governments. And it usually works.

kneemos

They've been predicting the end of the world for how long now? Gives the news channels something to dramatise,but they don't be tell us we're actually in a cooling phase.

interactive

NIMAN wrote: »

A common tactic for governments. And it usually works.

How can any Irish government policy effect global warming?
We are 5 million on a Island off the west of Europe, we already follow EU laws on pollution, when we miss them we get fined.
China, population of 1.5 Billion, pollutes like crazy
India population 1 billion pollutes like crazy
Africa 1+billion, population unsustainable without western aid.
China and India give not a toss about global warming, pollution, Well let them at it, they will suffer much worse than us
When China & India start to feel the effect of global warming, then they will act, until then any tax on the 5 million Irish is just a Swindle.
China & India get Horrendous smog, flooding, heat and drought, we get a nice 1 to 2 degree increase in temperature.
Let them at it, it dont effect us to the degree of the main polluters, and us is the EU, let China & India lead the charge.
The left keep telling us its the time for the rest of the word to take the reigns from the west and lead the world, Africa & Asia its your time to take the lead, save the world from the evil white man.

interactive

kneemos wrote: »

They've been predicting the end of the world for how long now? Gives the news channels something to dramatise,but they don't be tell us we're actually in a cooling phase.

Obama ranting and raving about global warming, the ice will melt, then he buys a $15 million beach side mansion, Al Gore did the same.
It is nothing but a scam, a reason to raise taxes, last summer in Ireland every day on news was global warming, the reservoirs are empty, it not raining, we must tax carbon, this summer is the hottest ever.
Then we had summer 2019, a day here or there of good sunny weather , the majority was damp, rainy miserable weather.
Know what we do tax the Irish hard, for the pollution of China & India.

Graces7

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

No point in us worrying about climate change and all that (but we may have to observe EU rules), if other countries don't give a fig and can just do what they want.

How is the Amazon doing now after the fires? Why did they start, and on we go.

All the more reason we should take care and do all we each and all can // many a mickle makes a muckle

and we can set the example

Blueshoe

Graces7 wrote: »

All the more reason we should take care and do all we each and all can // many a mickle makes a muckle

and we can set the example

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Greenhouse_gas_emission_statistics

Scroll down a little to the graph. Europe's emissions constantly dropping. We are already doing our bit.

KyussB

Except as stated in the other thread, it took almost 20 years to drop from 100% to 80% - which means the EU is failing to tackle the problem fast enough.

It's a bit like people saying the housing affordability in Dublin is recovering because 'houses are being built' - when the number of houses built, the rate of housebuilding, is nowhere near adequate for solving the problem in a timely way.

Irishphotodesk

KyussB wrote: »

Except as stated in the other thread, it took almost 20 years to drop from 100% to 80% - which means the EU is failing to tackle the problem fast enough.

It's a bit like people saying the housing affordability in Dublin is recovering because 'houses are being built' - when the number of houses built, the rate of housebuilding, is nowhere near adequate for solving the problem in a timely way.

Any idea how the other continents are doing by comparison?