Reincarnation...with a twist

Cabaal

Interesting story,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6fcK_fRYaI

I generally like the Kurzgesagt. videos and I thought this was a different take,
It might upset some very religious people

For me, I'm atheist, but knowing that atoms make us means that a sort of reincarnation does exist. The atoms that make us do eventually move on to form other things in our world/galaxy.

The stuff that makes us also originally came from stars so we are also literally made of stars.

smacl

No offence, but for me that was just a wooly rehash of typical religious beliefs, notably pantheism. Continuity of consciousness, a God figure, the notion of somehow being eternal in a constant universe. I'm quite happy being finite and temporal, existing in an ever changing universe. To my rather tiny mind, what makes me me is more about the configuration of neurons and chemistry in my brain and how the world outside stimulates that. The only constant is change.

Cabaal

smacl wrote: »

No offence, but for me that was just a wooly rehash of typical religious beliefs, notably pantheism. Continuity of consciousness, a God figure, the notion of somehow being eternal in a constant universe. I'm quite happy being finite and temporal, existing in an ever changing universe. To my rather tiny mind, what makes me me is more about the configuration of neurons and chemistry in my brain and how the world outside stimulates that. The only constant is change.

Oh no, don't get me wrong I agree with you, its basically a rehash of sorts....except that everybody that has ever lived is also basically a god.

But I did think it was an interesting concept none the less.

smacl

Cabaal wrote: »

Oh no, don't get me wrong I agree with you, its basically a rehash of sorts....except that everybody that has ever lived is also basically a god.

But I did think it was an interesting concept none the less.

It is a very old concept. In pantheistic tradition, God and the universe are the same thing, as opposed to the likes of Christianity where God created the universe and is external to it. If you take the notion of re-incarnation and a sentient God out of the equation you basically arrive at philosophical Taoism, which as a philosophy to my mind has a lot going for it but nonetheless contains a certain amount of woo once you delve into the specifics (which is fair enough given when it originated). What I like about it is that as a philosophy that stems from religion it is unusual insofar as it does not attempt to cheat death, which seems to be the main goal of most modern religions. My opinion is that any system of belief which focuses on life after death, whether it be Christianity or trans-humanism, carries unhealthy delusion based on fear and desire.

Hotblack Desiato

trans-humanism

OK, what is this?

- Something to do with grazing cattle

- Something to do with humanists who are trans

- Some form of humanism which believes in reincarnation or something??

But you can't have that without a "soul" and then you're (a) getting into all sorts of woo (b) dangling a supernatural carrot in front of people instead of trying to convince them to be kind to their fellow humans simply because it's the right thing to do.

smacl

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

OK, what is this?

- Something to do with grazing cattle

- Something to do with humanists who are trans

- Some form of humanism which believes in reincarnation or something??

But you can't have that without a "soul" and then you're (a) getting into all sorts of woo (b) dangling a supernatural carrot in front of people instead of trying to convince them to be kind to their fellow humans simply because it's the right thing to do.

More about Elon Musk wanting to become the next robocop, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism

Hotblack Desiato

I looked it up on Wikipedia and got nothing. The hyphen threw it off.

smacl

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

I looked it up on Wikipedia and got nothing. The hyphen threw it off.

I do suffer from excessive use of hyphens and commas..... ....oh and dots, way too many dots.....

recedite

Its eastern philosophy with a modern (progressive liberal globalist) twist.
See that black lad on the TV clinging to a rubber dinghy in the Med, that's you. Make sure you are extra nice to yourself from now on.


It appeals to the basic selfishness of the "liberal" for whom anything goes, as long as he/she can have a good time. Now you have to care about other people because they are you. Not because your god told you to.

Cabaal

recedite wrote: »

It appeals to the basic selfishness of the "liberal" for whom anything goes, as long as he/she can have a good time. Now you have to care about other people because they are you. Not because your god told you to.

So you claim is selfish, but you prefer the fear model trotted out by Christianity for century's'?

Be nice to somebody, don't be gay, don't get pregnant outside of marriage etc or you'll burn in hell,
:rolleyes:

recedite

Cabaal wrote: »

So you claim is selfish, but you prefer the fear model trotted out by Christianity for century's'?

Its not that I prefer one form of woo over another.
I merely point out that this novel modern form, being essentially egocentric or narcissistic, is particularly suited to the times we live in.
Traditional western religion had an external god who imposed morality among mere mortals through fear and threats.


Traditional eastern religion tended to see every individual living creature as part of an overall godhead/universal consciousness. In the same way that every cell in your body adds up to the self, but every cell is still individual and different. Morality was seen as a voluntary part of that. The more enlightened the being, the more morally aware.


In this egg thing, you are literally every other human who ever lived.
Presumably that also includes aborted foetuses. That egg looks to me like it is a blastocyst.
The poor animals don't seem to get a look in, unlike in the eastern version.
The morality involved then, is essentially selfish, as opposed to altruistic.

smacl

recedite wrote: »

Its not that I prefer one form of woo over another.
I merely point out that this novel modern form, being essentially egocentric or narcissistic, is particularly suited to the times we live in.
Traditional western religion had an external god who imposed morality among mere mortals through fear and threats.


Traditional eastern religion tended to see every individual living creature as part of an overall godhead/universal consciousness. In the same way that every cell in your body adds up to the self, but every cell is still individual and different. Morality was seen as a voluntary part of that. The more enlightened the being, the more morally aware.


In this egg thing, you are literally every other human who ever lived.
Presumably that also includes aborted foetuses. That egg looks to me like it is a blastocyst.
The poor animals don't seem to get a look in, unlike in the eastern version.
The morality involved then, is essentially selfish, as opposed to altruistic.

Problem with all that is that as an atheist you might be of the opinion that man invented God rather than the other way around. That being the case, if you look at the history of organised religion in the West, there is very little altruistic about it. More like a long con sold by those in power to the poor and under-educated to keep them working like slaves for a pittance on the promise (or lie if your prefer) that they'll have a wonderful afterlife. Or of course there's the pit if you step out of line. Not sure how much more selfish you can get.

Bannasidhe

recedite wrote: »

It appeals to the basic selfishness of the "liberal" for whom anything goes, as long as he/she can have a good time. Now you have to care about other people because they are you. Not because your god told you to.

And presumably to Roman Catholics who can pop into a box, whisper whatever 'anything goes' they have recently enjoyed to a man behind a partition, then, once the man has gesticulated a bit and mumbled about forgiveness behold! - the slate is wiped clean and lo they may go forth purified to partake in 'anything goes' once more.

Cabaal

recedite wrote: »

Its not that I prefer one form of woo over another.
I merely point out that this novel modern form, being essentially egocentric or narcissistic, is particularly suited to the times we live in.
.

Would could easily argue that the christian woo is no different
After all, the end goal is for the person to die and get to live in heaven with eternal happiness.

So the end goal is looking after yourself, whats more egocentric then that?

Add in confession and also the previous ability to pay money to the church to secure your place in heaven and its by far much more egocentric then the video I've posted.