Building Wall Close to Public Road

tiredhawk

I live in a house which is close to a quiet public road in a rural area. There is a wall surrounding the house which has two driveways (one on both sides of the house). The wall itself is approximately 3 metres from the road and between this wall and the roadway there is a tarmac surface which we put down ourselves.

For the last 20 years (since the house was built) vehicles including cars, lorries, tractors and farm machinery have been driving over this tarmac surface and covering our driveway in muck and dirt. The tarmac itself is breaking into pieces due to the heavy loads from large vehicles driving over it (at one section there is a large hole). This is particularly true when two vehicles meet each other outside our house or when a farmer parks his lorry across the road thereby partially blocking it and forcing drivers onto our driveway.

We have placed flower pots along this tarmac surface in an effort to stop drivers doing this but they just get driven across, especially by tractors which destroy them easily. After literally decades of this, we recently built two smaller walls extending out from the old wall to the road to try and stop vehicles from driving on the surface.

A few days after building the walls, we had a visit from a member of our local council who says that the new walls "will have to go". He said that "there should be space on both sides of the road to allow for someone who veers off the road" and that there shouldn't be any structure within 3 metres of both sides of the road. He didn't provide the exact regulation that was broken but mentioned that we would be sent a letter if we did not comply (I assume he means we will be given notice to remove the walls).

I don't know what regulation is broken and why we must remove these new walls. Both of them run close to the road (one is about 0.5 metre away from the road edge and the other about 1 m away) but they do not encroach onto the actual road itself. They are both approximately 0.6 metres in height therefore not exceeding the 1 metre threshold for planning permission. There are dozens of houses in the local community with walls that are less than 3 metres from the road so I don't know where this regulation is coming from.

Does anyone have more information about this kind of issue? Have you heard of this 3 metre regulation? I know we can consult a solicitor but that is a route that we really do not want to go down. Can we not take action to stop vehicles from causing damage to our property and making the road unsafe for us to use?

Thank you.

BryanF

You cannot alter a boundary condition, adding barrier walls as described above.

When was the house built and why was the boundary wall originally Built in this location 3m back from the road? I’d suggest this was an original planning permission stipulation. Assuming this is case, the council own or have an easement over the 3m verge.

Suggest you get rid the new walls before someone crashes into them.

If you feel there is a danger or an inconvenience caused by vehicles outside your house that’s a separate mater, and one you should take up with the council.

krissovo

We had a similar issue on a country lane and had to move our boundary back 3m from the center of the road despite historic walls on our boundary edge that butted the side of the road.

We now use large boulders and verge posts which mostly does the trick of keeping tractors and milk lorries away from our verge.

listermint

Why did you put the tarmac down. It's an invite to use it.

The only real prevention to this would be to reinstate the verge and plant it out properly.

You'll find people won't drive across flower beds.

jochenstacker

listermint wrote: »

Why did you put the tarmac down. It's an invite to use it.

The only real prevention to this would be to reinstate the verge and plant it out properly.

You'll find people won't drive across flower beds.

Be careful, you might put too much faith in people.

tiredhawk

BryanF wrote: »

You cannot alter a boundary condition, adding barrier walls as described above.

When was the house built and why was the boundary wall originally Built in this location 3m back from the road? I’d suggest this was an original planning permission stipulation. Assuming this is case, the council own or have an easement over the 3m verge.

Suggest you get rid the new walls before someone crashes into them.

If you feel there is a danger or an inconvenience caused by vehicles outside your house that’s a separate mater, and one you should take up with the council.

Apologies for late reply on this one. Thank you all for your input.

As a quick update, we have not heard anything from the Council since the visit we received 1 month ago. No letter, no phone calls... nothing.

Bryan F, to reply to your message:

The house was built well over 60 years ago (could be even 100 years). We purchased the house and built on a bit about 25 years ago. As far as I am aware, there was no stipulation regarding the boundary. The original boundary walls are within 2-2.5 m from the edge of the road.

But are we really altering the boundary? The new "wall" we have put up is less than 1 m high and is more like a large flower bed than a wall. It extends from our boundary yes but it does not encroach onto the road. I am surprised that we haven't heard anything from the council since.

Krissovo, to reply to you:

That sounds interesting. Did your council provide any details about this 3 m rule? Roughly how high were the walls that you had to move? How close are you putting your verge posts and boulders near the road?

BryanF

tiredhawk wrote: »

we recently built two smaller walls extending out from the old wall to the road to try and stop vehicles from driving on the surface.

You definitely need permission for this!

lgk

tiredhawk wrote: »

The new "wall" we have put up is less than 1 m high and is more like a large flower bed than a wall.

Be aware as well that if someone was to crash into that, you might be held liable...

tiredhawk

BryanF wrote: »

You definitely need permission for this!

BryanF wrote: »

You definitely need permission for this!

Do you know this for sure though? Do you have any regulation(s) that you can point me towards? I couldn't find anything about this when searching Irish planning regulation documents. The only thing I could find is that you are not allowed to erect a wall in front of your house if it is greater than 1.2 metres in height (ours is not). Boards won't allow me to post the link but in the "S.I. No. 600/2001 - Planning and Development Regulations, 2001" it states:

"The height of any such structure shall not exceed 2 metres or, in the case of a wall or fence within or bounding any garden or other space in front of a house, 1.2 metres."

We aren't "altering" any boundary. The boundary on our site map runs to the centre of the road and it contains no information about any boundary on that side of the site. There are many houses in the locality with walls and other structures that are within 1 m of the road.

BryanF

You can’t find any legislation because what you’ve done is not covered under the exemptions listed in that very document. You’ve got a letter from council? So YOU need to engage with them.

tiredhawk

BryanF wrote: »

You can’t find any legislation because what you’ve done is not covered under the exemptions listed in that very document. You’ve got a letter from council? So YOU need to engage with them.

That document is not a set of exemptions. It's a set of regulations that one must abide by when doing anything in relation to planning and development. As far as I can see, I haven't broken any regulations highlighted in that document!

I said that I have NOT received a letter. As I also stated before, the council informally came to me saying that the wall "has to go" but didn't provide any regulations that were broken. I never received any letter/notice since then. If the council wants it removed, they should lay out exactly what is wrong don't you think? What I have done does not encroach on a public road anymore than other walls and fences in the locality.

The reason why I posted this here is to get some information from people who may have gone through a similar process or know something about it. Rather than pursue a route with solicitors, I reached out here first.

BryanF

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2001/si/600/made/en/print#sched2

(Schedule 2, Part 1, Exempted dev, Column 1, Class 5) covers the boundary exemptions, which you refer to above.

No where does this state that you can do this:

tiredhawk wrote: »

we recently built two smaller walls extending out from the old wall to the road to try and stop vehicles from driving on the surface.

You definitely need permission for this!

tiredhawk

BryanF wrote: »

(Schedule 2, Part 1, Exempted dev, Column 1, Class 5) covers the boundary exemptions, which you refer to above.

No where does this state that you can do this:

You definitely need permission for this!

Hi Bryan.

I think the confusion arises when I mention the "old wall". This old wall (the one that the "new wall" is built out from) is only about 20 years old. Before this house was purchased, a family lived in it for 50+ years with no boundary wall at the front of the house (almost like a yard that extended from the front of the house to the road). The area between the front of the house and the road was used to park horses, wagons and bicycles (the old owners also originally owned the land across the road so they effectively owned both sides of the road). The "curtilage" of the house was never defined.

After we purchased the house, the "old wall" that we put up was built well back from the road but no boundary was ever agreed with the council. On the site maps, you don't see any wall but a boundary that runs to the centre of the road. In fact, this space between the wall and the road was often used for spillover parking and flower beds as there is a sizeable amount of space between the wall and the road (hence why tractors and heavy machinery drive all over it).

So we have built this "new wall" which extends about 1.5 m from the old wall. But, historically speaking, it is still within the curtilage of the house. If I am not mistaken, isn't that exempted development?

ED E

Ive passed rural houses that have "Czech Hedgehogs" in the grass verge outside (well kept). Made from metal piping, maybe steel, and painted white. Not anti-tank sized but not small either. Would probably stop a tractor. Seems to work.

A2LUE42

listermint wrote: »

You'll find people won't drive across flower beds.

Unfortunately you'll find that they will. I have given up on the grass or flowers outside the wall in the verge at this stage, people literally parked on them.

BryanF

Ok. Can you clarify ,
How far back from the edge of the road is the new wall?
Is there any Neighbour who has built since the 80’s near you - how far from the edge of the road is their wall/fence boundary? Approximately.
Thanks

tiredhawk

Let me just clarify first what the new wall actually looks like to help explain.

The new wall is actually two separate walls that we built out from the old wall. The two new walls are at both ends of the old wall (where the old wall meets the boundaries at both sides of our house).

The old wall is about 3-3.5 m from the road and runs parallel to it. Imagine you were standing with your back up against the old wall and facing the public road and then:

- You walked out 2 m from the old wall towards the road
- Then turned so that you were parallel to the road and walked another 4 m along the direction of the road
- Then turned back to face the old wall and walked back to meet

So basically you would walk in a U-shape or a rectangular shape. That's what the new walls looks like. We built it like that in those two locations (it looks more like a flower bed/box than a wall). I hope that makes sense.

One of these new walls is about 0.5 m from the road at its closest point while the other is 1 m. We put reflectors on both sides of both walls.

Yes there are a few neighbours further down this road who have newly built walls/structures. Off the top of my head, one neighbour built something similar within 1.5-2 m from the road in the last few months while another has a wall within 1-1.5 m from the road that was built in 5-6 years. There is one house that has a wall that was built sometime in the 80s that is about 0.5 m from the road at its closest point.

What are your thoughts? Cheers.

BryanF

Suggest wall is too close to the edge of the road. Noted above Precedence is 1.5/2m

tiredhawk

BryanF wrote: »

Suggest wall is too close to the edge of the road. Noted above Precedence is 1.5/2m

Can you elaborate on that please? What constitutes too close to the road exactly? How is it determined in this case? Thanks.

lgk

tiredhawk wrote: »

If I am not mistaken, isn't that exempted development?

It isn't if the LA consider it a potential 'hazard or obstruction of road users', or if it in any way contravenes the LA's development plan.

sydthebeat

tiredhawk wrote: »

Can you elaborate on that please? What constitutes too close to the road exactly? How is it determined in this case? Thanks.

hows its determined:

• existing precedence
• maintaining required sight lines from entrances
• ensuring compliance with planning conditions
• risk assess potential hazard to road users