EVs depreciate faster than petrols...

Alkers

Well according to Donedeal / RTE:
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2019/0827/1071216-electric-cars-decline-in-value-faster-than-petrol-cars/

I'd love to see the calculations to prove this, has anyone seen anything else on the net.

I know there are a few here who have had their cars almost enter into negative depreciation?

Car99

Alkers wrote: »

Well according to Donedeal / RTE:
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2019/0827/1071216-electric-cars-decline-in-value-faster-than-petrol-cars/

I'd love to see the calculations to prove this, has anyone seen anything else on the net.

I know there are a few here who have had their cars almost enter into negative depreciation?

By negative depreciation do you mean appreciation ?

Padre_Pio

I would say that right now we're in a weird time where demand outstrips supply.

I would imagine that depreciation will accelerate when production ramps up, battery packs degrade and longer range alternatives are available.

That said, Teslas in the US have a high scrap price, as there's demand for the battery packs, so that might soften out depreciation at the lower end.

patmahe

Early adoption of newer technology, people unsure of making the switch yet = smaller body of purchasers so prices have to dropped to tempt those who are right on edge.

Without looking into actual selling prices vs asking prices its very hard to say but for the moment I'd say it could be correct. Take up of electric is certainly rising rapidly, but petrol is proven and widely available, we just haven't fully reached the tipping point yet.

Just for perspective, the last time we changed I looked seriously at electric for our second car but opted for a small capacity petrol instead for now based on whole life costs over 3 years.

September1

I think those were Ioniqs which were brought in 2017 to Ireland, so they would be no 2016 cars. That means they could only compare LEAFs and Zoes with most likely small petrol cars(where diesel was not an option) and sporty petrol cars. Most popular car in 2016 was Tuscon and there is not a single petrol one on donedeal.

irishgrover

I honestly find this very hard to believe

Lantus

Those figures contradict the market.

Average car depreciation is 50 to 60pc after 3 years. Some models do better and some not so.

The idea that petrol cars retain 76pc of their value after 3 years is pure nonsense. I suppose even if its a downright lie enough people will rush out and buy petrol.

40pc depreciation after 3 years is pretty good!

Alkers

Car99 wrote: »

By negative depreciation do you mean appreciation ?

Yes

patmahe wrote: »

Early adoption of newer technology, people unsure of making the switch yet = smaller body of purchasers so prices have to dropped to tempt those who are right on edge.

Without looking into actual selling prices vs asking prices its very hard to say but for the moment I'd say it could be correct.

Anecdotally, I believe it to be completely incorrect

CoBo55

Mad lad got skinned alive with his, it was worth less than the balloon payment after 3 years...
Work colleague paid an absolute fortune to go from 171 to 191.

ELM327

Oh it's such nonsense.

sk8board

reading the article here on the train commute home and thought to myself .... the boards EV forum will be worth a visit this evening

The assertion is a bit mad (it’s just a cage-rattler article for some cheap PR) and even the depreciation of 33% on petrol cars after 3 years is very suspect, certain not on the cars I’ve ever bought new anyway!

sk8board

Lantus wrote: »

Those figures contradict the market.

Average car depreciation is 50 to 60pc after 3 years. Some models do better and some not so.

The idea that petrol cars retain 76pc of their value after 3 years is pure nonsense. I suppose even if its a downright lie enough people will rush out and buy petrol.

40pc depreciation after 3 years is pretty good!

It’s 66% not 76% after 3 years, but even still the point is still valid

Lumen

The motor industry is awash with bull****, always has been.

Amongst the biggest lies are "premium cars depreciate less". That is massively overstated by not taking into full account invoice price (with options) on the premium cars and typical discounts on list price of the non-premium ones.

The cars with superior (i.e. less) depreciation are those with waiting lists. Doesn't matter what's powering them.

stimpson

It may have been true at one stage. I looked at importing a leaf from the UK in 2016/17 and there was serious value to be had. Like sub 7K for a 3 year old car. It’s not like that anymore.

This is just the industry railing against EV. I read an interview with a Toyota dealer full of nonsense recently. It’s just FUD. It probably works quite well for them.

Gumbo

patmahe wrote: »

Early adoption of newer technology, people unsure of making the switch yet = smaller body of purchasers so prices have to dropped to tempt those who are right on edge.

Without looking into actual selling prices vs asking prices its very hard to say but for the moment I'd say it could be correct. Take up of electric is certainly rising rapidly, but petrol is proven and widely available, we just haven't fully reached the tipping point yet.

Just for perspective, the last time we changed I looked seriously at electric for our second car but opted for a small capacity petrol instead for now based on whole life costs over 3 years.

I bought a 2014 Leaf for 9900 in March 2017 and sold it in Jan 2019 for 11k.
Article is drunk, go home RTE news spinners.

September1

It just came to me, that apart from fact that most petrols in 2016 were niche products they also could be using pregrant prices for electrics.

drumm23

yes, I'd say pre grant figures being used

I'm in the market for an EV at the moment and it's definitely slow to move stuff ... I'm probably going for an i3 (either REX or the newer 42kw EV) or maybe a 2016/17 Tesla S ... and they all seem to sit for ages before they sell and the depreciation is pretty hefty ... but I don't think it's notably worse than your average petrol/diesel

pdpmur

There was a radio interview on Newstalk with a representative from DoneDeal on this topic this morning (between 6am and 7am).
From what I heard and understood, it seems that DoneDeal just did a snapshot of new car prices at some point in 2016 versus typical used car prices for the same type of cars in 2019.
So the survey was very narrow in that it really only included early generation cars such as Leaf Zoe and i3 and as such the results should not be extrapolated (as the media headlines would imply). None of the newer generation of these models were taken into consideration, not to mention the Ioniq, Kona or Niro that have come to the market since then.
So to me its the usual case of "lies, damn lies and statistics" and the typical mis-understanding or mis-representation (or just simple dumbing-down of same) by the media.
My only take-away from all of this is that there is an obvious loss in value of earlier generation EV's as they are superseded by newer generation models, as would be expected given the rapid rate of development of the products coming to market.

NIMAN

I would get more money now than what I paid for my Leaf 2 years ago.

KCross

I'd say the stats behind the article are largely true, you just need to understand what those stats are.

As pointed out, its a snapshot from 2016 and compared to 2019.

If you bought a Leaf SV 30kWh in 2016 it would have cost about €29k, I think?
That same car today is about €14k so the depreciation figure they quote is in the right ball park.

It doesnt, of course, cover the fact that EV's have appreciated in the last 18 months.

Its just a snapshot in time and good click bait for the media.

unkel

kceire wrote: »

I bought a 2014 Leaf for 9900 in March 2017 and sold it in Jan 2019 for 11k.

And all the regulars know you're not the only one. Many people on here bought second hand EVs a few years ago that are now worth more than what they paid for them.

The initial high depreciation of EVs (2011-2016) was probably because the cars were expensive to buy and there wasn't much demand for them second hand.

That had completely changed by mid to late 2016. Cars had become cheaper to buy. And then lots of people really got interested in EVs in 2018. I was offered a Leaf with 6.6kW charging and metallic paint for under €20k on the road in 2016. I bought a €25k Ioniq in January 2017 brand new which is now still worth about €21-22k in a private sale

Can anyone show me any 2017 petrol or diesel car that has kept its value as well. Any car?

sk8board

unkel wrote: »

Can anyone show me any 2017 petrol or diesel car that has kept its value as well. Any car?

I think there’s a ‘fear’ in the new car market currently, with people worrying that their ICE will be worthless because everything is going EV in an instant, which it simply won’t.


To answer your question though (I’ve been looking to import one for a few years!), I’ll propose the diesel Macan S.
depreciation was typically Porsche slow to begin with, but once Porsche called time on diesel cars they rose in value and even the original 2014’s are still easily worth 55% of the new price. Very annoying!

Zenith74

The story seems to be gone off RTE now? Cached version from Google - https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:3foAOy1JX4oJ:https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2019/0827/1071216-electric-cars-decline-in-value-faster-than-petrol-cars/+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

purpleisafruit

Mentioned on Last Word yesterday that DoneDeal withdrew the article as the EV figures were based off list price not including the 10k grants on them. Real depreciation figures were around 24% according to the motors guy on with them.

slave1

IT was a load of arse that report and DoneDeal need to get their act together after such fundamental errors (missing grants/sample size), in any case the report is now withdrawn after what looks like car manufacturer comments

https://www.rte.ie/lifestyle/motors/2019/0829/1071715-report-on-electric-car-values-recalled-after-criticism/

sk8board

slave1 wrote: »

IT was a load of arse that report and DoneDeal need to get their act together after such fundamental errors (missing grants/sample size), in any case the report is now withdrawn after what looks like car manufacturer comments

https://www.rte.ie/lifestyle/motors/2019/0829/1071715-report-on-electric-car-values-recalled-after-criticism/

that’s quite a row-back

pdpmur

sk8board wrote: »

that’s quite a row-back

The trouble (as always) is that the row-back gets relatively little media exposure (is DoneDeal going to wear the hairshirt in public?) and so it will not dislodge the negative bias in peoples minds generated by the original flawed report and ensuing media hullabaloo.

unkel

And now the article is based solely on the Leaf 30kWh. Probably the highest depreciating mainstream EV there is, very long in the tooth to go by the 2016 example. And on the Zoe, that has high "depreciation" rates for several reasons, like high cash discounts originally available (which distorts the actual depreciation) and it is virtually unsellable because of the mandatory battery lease that the 2016 model had.

All other mainstream EVs depreciate less. A lot less.