Battery degredation in 1 month old Kia E-Niro

s00bf06e

Hi,
So we got our E-Niro 64Kwh in early July and we are really happy with it so far. But over the last 2 or three weeks Ive noticed that it is not charging up to the full original range of 452km. Last week I charged it overnight at home and in the morning it was saying 100% charged but the range was 398km. I rang our dealer and he said to bring it in and they would check it. So the wife brought it in and they checked it out, the sales man came back and said the service engineers looked at it and said everything was fine and no issues were showing. They picked up on one thing that the coolant reservoir in the back right of the engine bay was below the min line by about 1cm. They told my wife this is coolant for the battery and that they don't have it in stock as its 'special' for the E-Niro. So all they said was keep an eye on it and that they would call us when they get the coolant. They contacted me yesterday and its booked in for next week to top up the coolant and to have a better look at the battery. I charged it again last night after doing a trip to Dublin as there was only about 80km range left. This morning again it only charged to 396km while the car is saying the battery is 100%. Has anybody come across anything similar with the E Niro or any other EVs that are less than 2 months old. This is about 12% degradation of the battery, if it keeps going at this rate the battery will be useless in no time.
Ill wait to see what they say next week but if they say there is nothing that can be done and that its inside the warranty spec can I tell them they can have the car back (probably getting a little ahead of myself here, but we are fairly annoyed about it as the range was the main reason for going fro the Niro).
Any advice or knowledge welcomed.

duploelabs

Expected Range is based on previous driving style, is there a heavy foot there?

jusmeig

Probably this, BMS will re-calibrate if you are a little heavy on the "gas".
If the coolant was low i'm surprised there were no warning lights?

Its highly unlikely given how old the car is you've degraded the battery that much, it would be a production defect if that was the case and your warrant would cover.

thelikelylad

That's just the GOM adjusting to your driving style. Drive more efficiently and you'll notice the GOM figure increasing. IMO you are better off ignoring the GOM when driving and just relying on % and your consumption.

You'd be better off charging to 100%, reseting one of the trip computers and average efficiency readout. Then drive for 100-200km or more and see if the consumption(kWh/100km), distance driven(km) and consumed or remaining SOC(%) figures all tally at the end.

ie. If you drive 300km at an efficiency of 16kWh/100km you should expect to consume about 75% charge if there is no degradation.

s00bf06e

duploelabs wrote: »

Expected Range is based on previous driving style, is there a heavy foot there?

Hi, I wouldn't say I have a heavy foot, I just drive normally within the speed limits. Yesterday I went from wexford to Dublin and back and used the cruise control the whole way up and down and never once went over the speed limit. now I would have been just at the 120kph mark for a good portion of that journey which I know will drain the battery quicker but the car is always in eco mode. I think the consumption yesterday was 16.9 kwh/100km (not sure what the units are). Is that heavy footed? So what are you saying if I drive a bit slower and keep the consumption rate down the range will show higher on the car?

Black_Knight

Drop in temperature is going to negatively impact a bit too, regardless if whether you're using aircon/heating.

stesaurus

s00bf06e wrote: »

Hi, I wouldn't say I have a heavy foot, I just drive normally within the speed limits. Yesterday I went from wexford to Dublin and back and used the cruise control the whole way up and down and never once went over the speed limit. now I would have been just at the 120kph mark for a good portion of that journey which I know will drain the battery quicker but the car is always in eco mode. I think the consumption yesterday was 16.9 kwh/100km (not sure what the units are). Is that heavy footed? So what are you saying if I drive a bit slower and keep the consumption rate down the range will show higher on the car?

The range is estimated in every car, EV, petrol or diesel. Don't rely on it as it's just a calculation based on previous use. So many factors impact it and with an EV being so much more efficient in general to an ICE these factors, like weather, have much more of a noticeable impact.
Did the dealer really not explain any of this to you?

Black_Knight

s00bf06e wrote: »

Hi, I wouldn't say I have a heavy foot, I just drive normally within the speed limits. Yesterday I went from wexford to Dublin and back and used the cruise control the whole way up and down and never once went over the speed limit. now I would have been just at the 120kph mark for a good portion of that journey which I know will drain the battery quicker but the car is always in eco mode. I think the consumption yesterday was 16.9 kwh/100km (not sure what the units are). Is that heavy footed? So what are you saying if I drive a bit slower and keep the consumption rate down the range will show higher on the car?

Yes. Same as with any car. Driving at 120kmph is going to be less efficient than driving at 80kmph, so your range meter is going to adjust accordingly.


16.9kwh/100km means you're using 16.9 kilowatt hours of electricity to drive 100 kilometers. Your car has a battery of 64kw capacity. 64/16.9=3.786
3.786*100km = 378km of range based on that efficiency.
To get 450km of range you'd need to be doing around 14.2kwh/100km

JPA

s00bf06e wrote: »

Hi, I wouldn't say I have a heavy foot, I just drive normally within the speed limits. Yesterday I went from wexford to Dublin and back and used the cruise control the whole way up and down and never once went over the speed limit. now I would have been just at the 120kph mark for a good portion of that journey which I know will drain the battery quicker but the car is always in eco mode. I think the consumption yesterday was 16.9 kwh/100km (not sure what the units are). Is that heavy footed? So what are you saying if I drive a bit slower and keep the consumption rate down the range will show higher on the car?

How many Kms and how much battery percentage did you use?

KCross

s00bf06e wrote: »

Hi,
So we got our E-Niro 64Kwh in early July and we are really happy with it so far. But over the last 2 or three weeks Ive noticed that it is not charging up to the full original range of 452km. Last week I charged it overnight at home and in the morning it was saying 100% charged but the range was 398km.

As others have said, thats an estimated range figure based on previous driving style. Its not a measure of battery degradation.

e.g. When you picked the car up new it probably had only been driven lightly around car parks and gave a figure of 452km based on that driving.

Now that your are hurtling up and down motorways at 120km/h you are consuming more energy and hence the range figure adjusts to its new owners driving style. Not much point in it telling you that there is 452km of range if its only going to actually be 396km based on how fast you drive.

Its no different to a diesel car. Drive it faster, it consumes more diesel!


If you want to see a 452km range again, just slow down!

s00bf06e

stesaurus wrote: »

The range is estimated in every car, EV, petrol or diesel. Don't rely on it as it's just a calculation based on previous use. So many factors impact it and with an EV being so much more efficient in general to an ICE these factors, like weather, have much more of a noticeable impact.
Did the dealer really not explain any of this to you?

No dealer didn't explain any of this to us, maybe they will when we bring in next week

s00bf06e

Grand, so maybe we are jumping the gun because of lack of knowledge. I will drive more economically for the next few days and I'll let you know what happens when I next charge it.

KCross

s00bf06e wrote: »

No dealer didn't explain any of this to us, maybe they will when we bring in next week

They generally havent a clue about EV's. To them its just another car they need to shift to earn their commission. You'll know more about the car than them.

s00bf06e

JPA wrote: »

How many Kms and how much battery percentage did you use?

Sorry I didn't keep note of this, I will in future just so I can do the calculations.

JPA

s00bf06e wrote: »

Grand, so maybe we are jumping the gun because of lack of knowledge. I will drive more economically for the next few days and I'll let you know what happens when I next charge it.

Drive economically if you want to/need to but you're not doing anything wrong. Drive the car normally.

Silent Running

s00bf06e wrote: »

Hi, I wouldn't say I have a heavy foot, I just drive normally within the speed limits. Yesterday I went from wexford to Dublin and back and used the cruise control the whole way up and down and never once went over the speed limit. now I would have been just at the 120kph mark for a good portion of that journey which I know will drain the battery quicker but the car is always in eco mode. I think the consumption yesterday was 16.9 kwh/100km (not sure what the units are). Is that heavy footed? So what are you saying if I drive a bit slower and keep the consumption rate down the range will show higher on the car?

I have the Niro since the start of July too.

I do that journey fairly regularly, and did it yesterday as well. The run up was in fairly good weather while the return journey was in crap weather all the way. I never use Eco mode though, just the standard one. Otherwise, the journey up in the morning sounds about the same as yours. My consumption on the way up was 14.3 Kwh/100kms. On the return journey, I took another route as I had a stop to make. (I came back via the N81).

I would be very disappointed to see nearly 17kWh/100kms. The worst I've seen is a little over 15, when I caned it on the M11 as I had to get back to Wexford in a hurry. Speed limits might, allegedly, have been broken. Even after that trip, I was still getting 450 on the GOM after a full charge. That was in warmer weather though.

Is the car freewheeling OK without any regen? I know it doesn't run as freely as the Ioniq, but it's not too far off.

Gumbo

s00bf06e wrote: »

Hi, I wouldn't say I have a heavy foot, I just drive normally within the speed limits. Yesterday I went from wexford to Dublin and back and used the cruise control the whole way up and down and never once went over the speed limit. now I would have been just at the 120kph mark for a good portion of that journey which I know will drain the battery quicker but the car is always in eco mode. I think the consumption yesterday was 16.9 kwh/100km (not sure what the units are). Is that heavy footed? So what are you saying if I drive a bit slower and keep the consumption rate down the range will show higher on the car?

Eco mode restricts acceleration and in some cars, top speed.
There's no point to restrict your driving to Eco mode when you have such a big battery unless you are going somewhere that tight with rnge. And even in eco, once up to 120 kmph then the eco mode has no bearing.

If you drive in and around the city for a day at low down speed your GOM will adjust and offer more range based on that slow moving driving style.

Alkers

The same thing would happen if you had a petrol or diesel car and did a long spin at motorway speeds, the estimated range from a full tank would reduce...

NIMAN

Your range will be worse in bad weather too don't forget.

Evs hate wind and lot of surface water. And the weather we've been having this last week has not been eV friendly.

I don't think you should panic too much. It all sounds fine, the GOM will adjust itself as you drive over the coming months.

And sure with a kia you have a long warranty should anything else be the matter.

s00bf06e

Alkers wrote: »

The same thing would happen if you had a petrol or diesel car and did a long spin at motorway speeds, the estimated range from a full tank would reduce...

I understand that, the difference is, which I didn't know, if you then fill up your diesel/petrol car it will give you the same range every time but with the EV it seems it remembers your previous consumption rate and adjusts the expected range accordingly when its next charged. We just saw the range getting lower and lower every time we charged the car were getting worried something was wrong. I've been put at ease now.

Mickeroo

s00bf06e wrote: »

I understand that, the difference is, which I didn't know, if you then fill up your diesel/petrol car it will give you the same range every time but with the EV it seems it remembers your previous consumption rate and adjusts the expected range accordingly when its next charged. We just saw the range getting lower and lower every time we charged the car were getting worried something was wrong. I've been put at ease now.

Yeah don't worry about it, there's a good chance it will get a fair bit lower again once the winter sets in!

Much the same thing happened with me with the Ioniq. I picked it up back in February with a full battery and a GOM reading of 216. It was well into may before I saw the GOM read above 200km again after a full charge, these days it's 225km or so. I expect it will be back below 200km before the end of October.

NIMAN

But you haven't the same range everytime you fuel an ICE car, it depends how you drive it too.

My estimated range on my Leaf can fluctuate between 108 and 138 when it's 100% charged.

You'll soon learn to ignore that. Better looking at the % battery left and thinking "well I get approx 4km per 1%".

That'll be more accurate.

Black_Knight

s00bf06e wrote: »

I understand that, the difference is, which I didn't know, if you then fill up your diesel/petrol car it will give you the same range every time but with the EV it seems it remembers your previous consumption rate and adjusts the expected range accordingly when its next charged. We just saw the range getting lower and lower every time we charged the car were getting worried something was wrong. I've been put at ease now.

Tis perfectly normal for range to drop a bit if you're doing more high speed driving, and with winter setting in too. You'll most likely be saying the opposite come next summer when temperatures rise and surface water reduces. Now if it continues to reduce down to 350km at 100% charge under similar driving conditions, that's pretty poor.

As mentioned, eco mode just kinda tapers how aggressive the car accelerates, and can be used to limit the top speed. It doesn't magically use less electricity when doing 120km/hr vs sport mode at 120km/hr.

Black_Knight

Mickeroo wrote: »

Yeah don't worry about it, there's a good chance it will get a fair bit lower again once the winter sets in!

Much the same thing happened with me with the Ioniq. I picked it up back in February with a full battery and a GOM reading of 216. It was well into may before I saw the GOM read above 200km again after a full charge, these days it's 225km or so. I expect it will be back below 200km before the end of October.

Topology/terrain might play its part too. My ioniq GOM is depressingly low (I know I know, ignore it), but then again I blast to up a hill everyday going to work, using ~26kw/100km, and only get about 10kw/100km on the way home. Hilly Cork is not good for range anxiety.

10-10-20

Petrol/Diesel range calculations were based on a few assumptions (stoichiometric mix, RPM and throttle position) and was never 100% accurate as no device was measuring the true/instantaneous fuel-flow - it was just a calculation. Add to that the fact that quantifying the contents of the fuel tank was also guess-work.

With EV's it's different as there are fewer variables in the process - and at the risk of simplifying it too much - it's mainly just a measure of the battery capacity and the drain current. Once you know these and subtract one form the other at a reasonable rate, you can work out the range.
If you boot along at 18kW/100km on a motorway it's going to learn that average and apply it accordingly.

I did see some guidance about resetting the GOM between 2 to 4 times a year to take into account the environmental factors (rain, heat/cold, wind) and that the accuracy of such would then recalculate over the next ~200km. I suppose the same would then be true if your route changes significantly, such as more city driving than motorway, etc.

Lumen

17kWh/100km at 120kph seems like great efficiency for a fairly chunky car.

That's similar to a Model 3 on 18" aero wheels.

slave1

NIMAN wrote: »

Evs hate wind and lot of surface water.

This, my battery usage was way up Wednesday in the p1ssing rain and puddle covered roads

bonoman66

s00bf06e wrote: »

Hi,
So we got our E-Niro 64Kwh in early July and we are really happy with it so far. But over the last 2 or three weeks Ive noticed that it is not charging up to the full original range of 452km. Last week I charged it overnight at home and in the morning it was saying 100% charged but the range was 398km. I rang our dealer and he said to bring it in and they would check it. So the wife brought it in and they checked it out, the sales man came back and said the service engineers looked at it and said everything was fine and no issues were showing. They picked up on one thing that the coolant reservoir in the back right of the engine bay was below the min line by about 1cm. They told my wife this is coolant for the battery and that they don't have it in stock as its 'special' for the E-Niro. So all they said was keep an eye on it and that they would call us when they get the coolant. They contacted me yesterday and its booked in for next week to top up the coolant and to have a better look at the battery. I charged it again last night after doing a trip to Dublin as there was only about 80km range left. This morning again it only charged to 396km while the car is saying the battery is 100%. Has anybody come across anything similar with the E Niro or any other EVs that are less than 2 months old. This is about 12% degradation of the battery, if it keeps going at this rate the battery will be useless in no time.
Ill wait to see what they say next week but if they say there is nothing that can be done and that its inside the warranty spec can I tell them they can have the car back (probably getting a little ahead of myself here, but we are fairly annoyed about it as the range was the main reason for going fro the Niro).
Any advice or knowledge welcomed.

Firstly congratulations on getting one of these EVs - great car IMHO (in terms of spec and price of available EVs in Ireland at present). Be very happy - you have a brilliant EV there!

Unless you're very unlucky with this particular car due to some premature failure or production issue (not heard / read of any battery degradation issues with this model yet), I would say you have absolutely nothing to be concerned about.Its just a learning / getting used to the car thing & your expectations versus what you'll see after having owned / driven it over a few months.

Not proclaiming to be an expert or 'know all' - far from it - I'm learning all the time & I make that statement above based on buying my first EV (a Kona Electric back in January).

The Kona is broadly similar to your car's drive-train - in terms of same battery capacity, motor power, range etc..(You've more rear space, much bigger boot & better spec though - so yes even though I love my Kona - I'm jealous ;-))

When I collected my Kona in the colder month of January, the car had a fully charged battery & the range indicated was 449KMs.

It was my first EV, so I wasn't certain how it would drive compared to all my previous Petrol / Diesel Cars - in terms of my knowing how realistic that 449KMs range was.

I firstly took a mainly motorway based drive from Dublin to Limerick & drove at full 120KMPH where possible, in cold, sometimes wet / windy weather, with lights, heat, bluetooth music streaming & full load in the car (rear seat partially down to accommodate load etc..). So there and back in those conditions, at those speeds, in Sport Mode :-), I was able to see my range was between 300KM - 330KMs approx at full charge. Reg 1 - 2 on Motorway. Regen 3 backroads/ towns.

Then I had subsequent journeys / suburban/ city / backroads & a little motorway. Saw the range increase from the 300KMs - 330KMs to 400KMs easily. Just driving like I would an ICE car.

All the time I'd never reached that 449KMs range indicated when I first collected the car

However over subsequent months as I explored the other driving modes (Comfort / Eco) & had less motorway journeys in warmer / better weather, I observed the range increasing each time I fully charged.

In June, I hit an indicated range of 500KMs & 508KMs on 2 occasions when fully charged (driving Eco Mode, Regen 3, mainly town / backroads - not a lot of motorway).

So for you, just relax, enjoy your fantastic EV & just get used to it & how your driving styles / driving modes / weather all can impact the indicated range.

Your car is bigger than mine so I'm not implying you 'll get exactly the same as what I saw, but I'd be confident, youll get great range & I'd be pretty sure you've nothing to be worried about.

Hope this feedback helps a bit.

Cheers.

unkel

s00bf06e wrote: »

Yesterday I went from wexford to Dublin and back and used the cruise control the whole way up and down and never once went over the speed limit. now I would have been just at the 120kph

There you have it. Driving at 120km/h in the rain is pretty bad for the range of an EV. There is absolutely nothing to worry about. Your car is fine.

There are many Hyundai Ioniq EV owners here on boards (sister company to Kia, they use much the same tech / batteries etc.). I drive the bejaysus out of mine and my indicated range in summer is typically 240km. But I'm based in Dublin and rarely do any long distance driving, so a lot of my driving is urban / regional 80km/h / M50 100km/h which EVs like. I usually have a window open and don't use active cruise control all that much. Some other Ioniq EV owners have long commutes at 120km/h with always ACC and aircon on. Even if they would use ECO mode and drive gently, their indicated range in summer would only be 180km

ELM327

It's a guess o meter
The only car you can use the range estimate as a measure of degradation is a tesla, as they use a common coefficient and not a guess based on driving style

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

There you have it. Driving at 120km/h in the rain is pretty bad for the range of an EV. There is absolutely nothing to worry about. Your car is fine.

There are many Hyundai Ioniq EV owners here on boards (sister company to Kia, they use much the same tech / batteries etc.). I drive the bejaysus out of mine and my indicated range in summer is typically 240km. But I'm based in Dublin and rarely do any long distance driving, so a lot of my driving is urban / regional 80km/h / M50 100km/h which EVs like. I usually have a window open and don't use active cruise control all that much. Some other Ioniq EV owners have long commutes at 120km/h with always ACC and aircon on. Even if they would use ECO mode and drive gently, their indicated range in summer would only be 180km

Less, I saw 165

Just get in , drive it and forget about it, when the cold weather comes, storms and wet roads you'll see the range drop a lot more.

You got 64 Kwh usable, enjoy it , imagine when I had just 21 Kwh usable in the Nissan Leaf !

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

Just get in , drive it and forget about it, when the cold weather comes, storms and wet roads you'll see the range drop a lot more.

You got 64 Kwh usable, enjoy it , imagine when I had just 21 Kwh usable in the Nissan Leaf !

mine was 20 point something when I sold it.
Utter tripe in comparison!

McGiver

s00bf06e wrote: »

duploelabs wrote: »

Expected Range is based on previous driving style, is there a heavy foot there?

So what are you saying if I drive a bit slower and keep the consumption rate down the range will show higher on the car?

Speed doesn't matter that much unless you go way above 120kph. What matters is repeated harsh acceleration & deceleration. Try avoiding these and see if GOM changes.

Plus rain, wind, temperature and elevation gain. It may have been due to these as others said.

championc

Hey @s00bf06e

Any chance of an update ?