What can a social worker do to help?

The Mammal

Hello,

I’m not a major user of he internet and never joined this kind of website before so I hope I’m posting in the correct place but it is the nearest section I could find connected to social workers.

I dropped out of college early and spent most of the last ten years abroad (but I come a lot). I probably should know what I’m about to ask but it has never affected me before.

I’ve been home for nearly a year trying to get my grandfather to give my Nana the finished and completed house she deserves decades ago. It started out as simply to make the house look nice and for them to be happy and get along but the truth is that the house is safety risk - for example their shower is a bath and my Nana has a bad knee so climbing in and out is dangerous.

My Nana’s GP was no help but someone advised my to get an HSE occupational therapist. He cane very quickly and was good - highlighted all the risks (which are obvious), advised on grants, etc. He left and we were all convinced my grandfather understood. Two months, five bathroom renovators with quotes and lot of promises later I had to get the OT.

It was clear to him on the second visit that my grandfather is difficult and will be an obstruction but all an OT can do is advise. So he recommended a social worker and I’ve submitted the request.

My grandfather has the notion that it is bluff and that no one will really come but he is now claiming he doing the bathroom job himself. IF he actually started we could get the job going faster than a professional contractor but my grandfather is 83 and not entirely healthy. However the current “clean up in the shed to make space to work” is simply an attempt to distract everybody and his his plan to complete the downstairs bathroom has been shot down twice by the OT as the room and access to it is unsuitable for my Nana.

The OT is good but seems to be giving me to be assuming I understand this process more than I do.

I know the case has been assigned to a social worker but do not when they will come or what they can actually do.

Can the social worker order my grandfather to hire professionals?
Can the social worker decide whether my grandfather is capable of the job and demand he commences work immediately?
Can the social worker decide my grandfather is too much of an obstacle and tell him to allow access to the money and just stand aside?

One of aunts (with a tendency to over react dramatically) has told me I’ve gone “too far” and that the social worker can “remove” my Nana” from the house? My sister said that is nonsense. The OT has already said my Nana is more than capable and mobile to look after herself and that it it is the house that is the issue. It really doesn’t make sense that the social worker would do anything like that.

I have travelled a LOT and met all sorts of people but I’ve never encountered anybody as difficult, stubborn, blind to their own faults and problems and just general screwed up as most of family.

Is what I’ve described here just completely bizarre or so other have this weirdness in their life too?

Would recommend you contact Family Carers Ireland in your area https://familycarers.ie/find-us/ Get an appointment to talk over the entire situation with one of their family support officers. They have a lot of experience and are well placed to put you on the path to sorting out the tangled aspects. As for thinking your family members are unique in their strangeness - well, every family has their story and increasing age brings its own set of issues for everyone.

The Mammal

Balagan1 wrote: »

Would recommend you contact Family Carers Ireland in your area

The advancing age isn’t the issue in my family but a whole host of stupid things easily solved - I lack the skill to explain it here - a common problem though is an ability to see when they are wrong and the harm it does others. I mean I have had to call a social worker snooty a bathroom.

Anyway thank you for the advice and the link. I’ll look it up.

endofrainbow

Local Community Nurses are a wealth of information and can advise in tricky situations

the14thwarrior

the short answer is the social worker, the OT, in fact nobody can order your grandfather to do anything. It is his decision, and your nana to get the house modified. I assume it is their house. so it is their business.

the social worker might be able to assist, but the grant process is straightforward enough and easily understood if you call the relevent council and speak to them how the process works.

i'm sorry because you want to make things better, but unless you take it on board yourself to do all the paperwork and push the grant through (and get them to sign the form) then it sounds like nothing can be done

a word..... calling in a social worker for assistance is good..... but unless its a safe guarding issue and you are wanting your nana to be removed for her own safety....... there is nothing anyone can do.
it is up to family to sort out family and house issues.
i wish you only the best

and no, you are not alone. your grandfather is old and stubborn and sounds like he is a few fries short of a happy meal. but not everyone is perfect.......

either take it on board yourself and plough on for your nana's sake or leave it alone

The Mammal

the14thwarrior wrote: »

the short answer is the social worker, the OT, in fact nobody can order your grandfather to do anything. It is his decision, and your nana to get the house modified. I assume it is their house. so it is their business.

the social worker might be able to assist, but the grant process is straightforward enough and easily understood if you call the relevent council and speak to them how the process works.

i'm sorry because you want to make things better, but unless you take it on board yourself to do all the paperwork and push the grant through (and get them to sign the form) then it sounds like nothing can be done

a word..... calling in a social worker for assistance is good..... but unless its a safe guarding issue and you are wanting your nana to be removed for her own safety....... there is nothing anyone can do.
it is up to family to sort out family and house issues.
i wish you only the best

and no, you are not alone. your grandfather is old and stubborn and sounds like he is a few fries short of a happy meal. but not everyone is perfect.......

either take it on board yourself and plough on for your nana's sake or leave it alone

There is no grant application as there is apparently plenty of money in the bank. I only mentioned the grant as an example of the OT doing his job well.

The OT said advice and recommendations were all he could give and anything more would require a social worker. I did get the impression the OT meant the social worker could go beyond just advice. What is the point otherwise?

The form I filled out was a Safeguarding and Protection form.

I phoned the OT about my aunt saying my Nana could be taken from the house. I could hear him properly for some reason but I’m pretty sure he said that wasn’t on cards.

the14thwarrior

I'm not clear on why a social worker was asked, perhaps you raised concerns about her safety, or perhaps the OT felt a social worker could bridge the gap for the communication / help to get through to your grandfather.

they will make a decision whether its a safe guarding issue. doesn't sound at all like it is.

i think your intentions might be good, but your expectations of the professionals are too high. why not wait until the social worker comes ?


its your grandfather and grandmother. they can do what they like basically with their house, if they want, when they want. they are entitled to make bad decisions, or no decisions at all.
lots of people do

Abba987

Nobody can force your grandfather to carry out renovations.

Is it a privately owned home or a council house ?

splinter65

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/judge-lifts-orders-preventing-elderly-man-visiting-wife-in-nursing-home-order-against-son-remains-857193.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/977524/

This is how this type of thing can end up if the family are unable to deal with a very difficult close family member.
Social workers were heavily involved in this case.

the14thwarrior

the OP has made no comments on this type of behavour.
overreaching to make an argument.
extreme example of a ward of court person who has dementia and highly involved in social services. nothing to do with this example.

in most areas, social workers are only available for such cases, or child issues and don't have the time to come and chat to someone in the hope they will change their mind on making reasonable decisions. by the way its only been five months.
the grandson has been away for 10 years. sounds like he doesn't know the man very well.

his grandfather doesn't want to spend his money to modify his bathroom (to take a shower once a week if we lucky)

unless the grandson has real concerns regarding abuse, or he feels his nana is in real and immediate danger, then a social worker will initiate a safe guarding process which doesn't automatically remove her from the home.

the OP should be careful..... in lots of circles.... involving a social worker is akin to calling the police to report someone in your family has done something wrong..........and his family may not welcome such attention from a social worker........

splinter65

the14thwarrior wrote: »

the OP has made no comments on this type of behavour.
overreaching to make an argument.
extreme example of a ward of court person who has dementia and highly involved in social services. nothing to do with this example.

in most areas, social workers are only available for such cases, or child issues and don't have the time to come and chat to someone in the hope they will change their mind on making reasonable decisions. by the way its only been five months.
the grandson has been away for 10 years. sounds like he doesn't know the man very well.

his grandfather doesn't want to spend his money to modify his bathroom (to take a shower once a week if we lucky)

unless the grandson has real concerns regarding abuse, or he feels his nana is in real and immediate danger, then a social worker will initiate a safe guarding process which doesn't automatically remove her from the home.

the OP should be careful..... in lots of circles.... involving a social worker is akin to calling the police to report someone in your family has done something wrong..........and his family may not welcome such attention from a social worker........

Wise words.

The Mammal

the14thwarrior wrote: »

I'm not clear on why a social worker was asked, perhaps you raised concerns about her safety, or perhaps the OT felt a social worker could bridge the gap for the communication / help to get through to your grandfather.

they will make a decision whether its a safe guarding issue. doesn't sound at all like it is.

i think your intentions might be good, but your expectations of the professionals are too high. why not wait until the social worker comes ?


its your grandfather and grandmother. they can do what they like basically with their house, if they want, when they want. they are entitled to make bad decisions, or no decisions at all.
lots of people do

As I said in my original post I’m not familiar with how it all so I probably sounded extreme asking if the social worker can order people to do this or that. I brought on the OT because of safety issues and he agreed. Helping with communication and such makes sense but what has me worried is that pros like my grandfather can pretend to listen and spoof his way through - in the end the danger will remain.

I didn’t want to say it even in an anonymous form but my Nana has dementia. The communication between them was never great but now it is worse because she fumbles her words and thoughts and is losing confidence is dealing with him. My grandfather doesn’t seem to know which way is up - he thinks she cannot look after herself but still denies there is anything wrong. He is stubborn and difficult and everyone eventually just gives up in trying to reason with him which makes him believe hat he is always right and he cannot stand me being around because I don’t - yet he freaks out at the thoughts of me up and heading off to “my own life” because he’d have to deal with things. He is not capable of it.

I wish he would understand that it is as you say - THEIR house, not HIS house. The bad decisions are not THEIRS, they are his. And it is my Nana that is unhappy.

I don’t understand what you mean by expectations being too high about the professional builders. I don’t think I was singing their praises. I simply think a good option is to hire a contractor and have a bunch of healthy people who know what they doing. The alternative is an old man (who shouldn’t be doing that kind of job) and me. The only positive aspect is that it could be started quicker than a professional could (but it won’t).

The Mammal

Abba987 wrote: »

Nobody can force your grandfather to carry out renovations.

Is it a privately owned home or a council house ?

Private

The Mammal

splinter65 wrote: »

This is how this type of thing can end up if the family are unable to deal with a very difficult close family member.
Social workers were heavily involved in this case.

There isn’t abuse. It is neglect.

It isn’t being done with malice - years of him getting his own way has my grandfather believing he is always right and he also has OCD - undiagnosed, but I can see it clearly because my father had it (diagnosed and was in treatment) and the similarities are unmistakeable.

lulu1

I understand that you want what;s best for your grandmother i think your next port of call should be the public health nurse and see if your grandparents would need homehelp. I cant understand why the ot should have contacted a social worker and not the public health nurse, but maybe that's the way things are done now.

The Mammal

the14thwarrior wrote: »

the OP has made no comments on this type of behavour.
overreaching to make an argument.
extreme example of a ward of court person who has dementia and highly involved in social services. nothing to do with this example.

in most areas, social workers are only available for such cases, or child issues and don't have the time to come and chat to someone in the hope they will change their mind on making reasonable decisions. by the way its only been five months.
the grandson has been away for 10 years. sounds like he doesn't know the man very well.

his grandfather doesn't want to spend his money to modify his bathroom (to take a shower once a week if we lucky)

unless the grandson has real concerns regarding abuse, or he feels his nana is in real and immediate danger, then a social worker will initiate a safe guarding process which doesn't automatically remove her from the home.

the OP should be careful..... in lots of circles.... involving a social worker is akin to calling the police to report someone in your family has done something wrong..........and his family may not welcome such attention from a social worker........

What has “only been five months”? I thought maybe I had mistyped in my original post but I can’t find any mention of five months. And I have been away for a solid ten ten years - I came home a lot. I figured the details were irrelevant and would take too long anyway.

And I do know grandfather very well - i saw it all with my father but he was trying to fix himself. Being away has also allowed he to see the whole family more clearly.

Not spending money is a part of it but there is also the fact that he can’t stand another man coming in to do “his man’s work” even though he won’t do it himself or finish it.

As to members of the family “not welcoming the attention” I honestly don’t care. If we were better people this situation wouldn’t have got to this point. I have no respect for anyone who would object to making someone life safer and better. If they view it as “unwelcome attention” then they know there is something wrong happening.

The safety issues are real. This makes them immediate.

What is this safeguarding process that wouldn’t result in removal? That sounds like a social worker does have some power to do something regardless of an objection.

The Mammal

lulu1 wrote: »

I understand that you want what;s best for your grandmother i think your next port of call should be the public health nurse and see if your grandparents would need homehelp. I cant understand why the ot should have contacted a social worker and not the public health nurse, but maybe that's the way things are done now.

I hadn’t heard of a public health nurse before. I just looked it up.

I think she may have come after the OT’s first visit. A woman cane with some safety handrails and two “chairs” for the bathroom as a short term measure. The seats made my Nana actually scared - they were monstrosities.

After a few days of nothing happening I set about to install one of the handrails at the bath - I didn’t have a clue where to put it but I was doing just to goad my grandfather into taking over. The other handrails then disappeared,

Would this be the Public Health Nurse?

lulu1

The Mammal wrote: »

I hadn’t heard of a public health nurse before. I just looked it up.

I think she may have come after the OT’s first visit. A woman cane with some safety handrails and two “chairs” for the bathroom as a short term measure. The seats made my Nana actually scared - they were monstrosities.

After a few days of nothing happening I set about to install one of the handrails at the bath - I didn’t have a clue where to put it but I was doing just to goad my grandfather into taking over. The other handrails then disappeared,

Would this be the Public Health Nurse?

It could have been but i doubt it i reckon it was a colleugue of the OT's Please look up the number of the public health nurse in your area and they will advise you

The Mammal

Loveinapril wrote: »

Social workers do not have the power to remove anyone from anywhere (even children). The Gardaí are the only ones with that power. Social workers are present when kids are removed to take them into the care of the HSE. The Gardaí would only remove your grandfather of there was a court order in place (like a barring order) because there was a real, immediate risk to your grandmother's safety against physical violence.

The occupational therapist looks at the functionality of the space (does the patient need handrails/ accessible shower. etc.) so the person doing all the measuring and fitting was likely to be part of their team.

The social worker mentioned by the OT is likely to be a medical social worker who can help coordinate your grandmother's care needs, make referrals to other services, etc. It is likely the OT mentioned this because of your grandmother's dementia. They can advise and support but they can't make anyone do anything.

The OT definitely said that the social worker was coming because of the safety issues around the house. It was not about other services.

The OT said it was clear that my grandfather understood the risks and yet couldn’t act accordingly and was obstructive to others doing it. That was when he said the social worker had to be brought in.

My grandfather showed up at the health centre a couple hours after the OT’s second visit but left when he was told the OT was ready to see him. They phoned him but he wouldn’t answer. The OT then spoke to my sister and called me to tell me the social workers needed to take over.

I started the thread because I was confused as to what the social worker can do. Everyone who posted says the social worker cannot order the jobs to be done but they are being brought in because the friendly guidance of the OT has had no effect. So I’m assuming a social worker is supposed to do more than just give advice - perhaps they are better equipped to nightlight the seriousness of the situation and if my grandfather is insisting on doing the job himself that help him plan it out and give him a start date.

This is all we’ve ever wanted him to do - start the damn job. It was always an ordeal to work with him as he the OCD makes him painfully fussy and slow but I’ll be there to see it gets finished.

Even with me there to do the heavy the job will be the end of him though. I know it in my heart and soul - his age, his general health and how he gets worked up when doing jobs.

And it doesn’t need to be that way. If he had agreed to any of the builders who came with quotes after the OT’s first visit the job would be done by now.

the14thwarrior

I apologise, i got the months wrong. I meant two months. two months since the bathroom issue.
by professionals i meant the healthcare professionals.
it wasn't clear to me from your initial posts that your grandmother has dementia.

what your grandfather is doing comes under elder abuse. you can report him yourself to the social worker. You should look up the HSE elder abuse website for more information. if fact, from the next few posts it seems you are concerned, and can't get help, so perhaps you need to go down that line. as i stated before, its a dodgy road.

i'm not saying don't go down the dodgy road, who wouldn't if they had real concerns etc. but i personaly would not be going down that road because of a bathroom.

i would however be prepared to go down that road with the public health nurse, the gp and the social worker in looking to see if grandmother needs additional care supports, if he refuses them etc. then the path becomes clearer and better for everyone to seek ward of court proceedings, which by the way, takes months and years and lots of let's give him another chance and such like. He won't change. Let your focus be the grandmother.

i don't know where the children are in all of this, and why no one has stepped in to sort out their father, a myraid of reasons no doubt

i suspect the hand rails were removed by your grandfather. The OT or the public nurse would not likely have taken them back. you can't return them under HSE rules etc. in general.

they give children back to bad parents, they allow abused children return home, there are far worst cases in our country today and the only way to remove your grandmother would be via the police.
regardless of dementia, if your grandmother has capacity to decide, and capacity to consent, it remains her choice. a horrible choice, married to a nightmare of a husband who refuses to hand over control and make life nice for all, sounds selfish, difficult, OCD, rude, demeaning and old and grumpy.

to be honest, i like your style. I'm on your side.
carry on and wear him and everyone around him down.
your grandmother deserves it

lulu1

OP what are the rest of your famlies thoughts on this situation or even your grandmothers I know she has dementia but if shes really bad i;m sure the rest of the family must be aware of it

OP dont get me wrong I think you are stressing out too much about a bathroom get the proper help for your grandparents

Did you manage to contact the public health nurse?

The Mammal

the14thwarrior wrote: »

I apologise, i got the months wrong. I meant two months. two months since the bathroom issue.
by professionals i meant the healthcare professionals.
it wasn't clear to me from your initial posts that your grandmother has dementia.

what your grandfather is doing comes under elder abuse. you can report him yourself to the social worker. You should look up the HSE elder abuse website for more information. if fact, from the next few posts it seems you are concerned, and can't get help, so perhaps you need to go down that line. as i stated before, its a dodgy road.

i'm not saying don't go down the dodgy road, who wouldn't if they had real concerns etc. but i personaly would not be going down that road because of a bathroom.

i would however be prepared to go down that road with the public health nurse, the gp and the social worker in looking to see if grandmother needs additional care supports, if he refuses them etc. then the path becomes clearer and better for everyone to seek ward of court proceedings, which by the way, takes months and years and lots of let's give him another chance and such like. He won't change. Let your focus be the grandmother.

i don't know where the children are in all of this, and why no one has stepped in to sort out their father, a myraid of reasons no doubt

i suspect the hand rails were removed by your grandfather. The OT or the public nurse would not likely have taken them back. you can't return them under HSE rules etc. in general.

they give children back to bad parents, they allow abused children return home, there are far worst cases in our country today and the only way to remove your grandmother would be via the police.
regardless of dementia, if your grandmother has capacity to decide, and capacity to consent, it remains her choice. a horrible choice, married to a nightmare of a husband who refuses to hand over control and make life nice for all, sounds selfish, difficult, OCD, rude, demeaning and old and grumpy.

to be honest, i like your style. I'm on your side.
carry on and wear him and everyone around him down.
your grandmother deserves it

My Nana is also responsible for putting the bathroom job off for decades - a combination of believing the promises he’d do it and a stubborn streak that had her wanting him to keep the promise despite knowing he wouldn’t.

The are my paternal grandparents. My father is dead and my aunts are pretty useless. I can see the OCD in them too but if them that are not selfish just gave up on trying to get him to do it. My Mam has never really cared for my grandfather but takes my Nana out regularly - she is rarely in the house and the bath just never occurred to her.

My Nana has two sister’s and the three meet all the time. They’ve tried to encourage the work to get done for while now and both admit they should have done more sooner but they had their own stuff to deal with and it all just slipped by.

There is progress though. My Nana got fed up at the weekend and brought one of the sisters to the the house while I was out. My Nana said she wanted to get the job done herself with her own money and her sister agreed and said to just forget about my grandfather, to pay for the job herself from her credit union savings. They save the same amount but my Nana has only put money in and not withdrawn for about 10 years or more. Just hire the guy she wants, pay the deposit and let my grandfather blow his stack when the lads arrive or he finds out - once the deposit is paid there is nothing he can do and he would be afraid of the workers laughing at him if he kicked up a fuss.

My Nana has mentioned the credit union a couple of times and I had discouraged it - she would need that money if anything happened to grandfather. The sister correctly pointed out that there is no point in the money sitting in the account when it can alleviate my Nana’s unhappiness. It hasn’t been touched in years so it not necessary for day to day needs and the joint back account is there is there in the event something happens.

That has cheered up my Nana and I’m calling one of the builders this morning so we can meet at their showroom as there are specific requirements with the shower for safety reasons and for the size of the room.

However something happened last night that has upset the cheeriness. My Nana was always near & tidy and always cleaning despite my grandfather being messy. I noticed she stopped and that was becoming disorganised. I’ve been helping her arrange the house so things have a place, good in the kitchen is easy find, etc. - I’m not making the decisions, she is but I’m helping her stick to it. My grandfather is consistently moving things and hiding them - he claims it is for Nana’s benefit so their is no sense to what he does. Turns out he trying to show me that he is king of the castle and seems to have no clue that not only am I not interested in the “crown” but seems to unaware of the effects of shifting stuff.

My Nana came back from a night out last night to find all but two of the dessert spoons missing. There is a lot of cutlery in the drawer and it would do no harm to remove some but if my grandfather’s intent was to make the drawer easier to navigate then why only remove the spoons. My Nana got upset and I was going to wake him up but instead she dumped ALL the cutlery into a bag and took it away.

I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry.

The Mammal

lulu1 wrote: »

OP what are the rest of your famlies thoughts on this situation or even your grandmothers I know she has dementia but if shes really bad i;m sure the rest of the family must be aware of it

OP dont get me wrong I think you are stressing out too much about a bathroom get the proper help for your grandparents

Did you manage to contact the public health nurse?

The family details are valid questions and are in my previous post.

I have been trying to get that proper help or both of them. My grandfather will never be someone I get along with but I want him to be better and for Nana to be happy. The need to get along much much better and be able to talk. I’m hoping the social worker can help with that.

However my Nana’s safety is my priority and that bath is an accident waiting to happen.

The Mammal

The Mammal wrote: »

The family details are valid questions and are in my previous post.

I have been trying to get that proper help or both of them. My grandfather will never be someone I get along with but I want him to be better and for Nana to be happy. The need to get along much much better and be able to talk. I’m hoping the social worker can help with that.

However my Nana’s safety is my priority and that bath is an accident waiting to happen.

Nobody here is in a position to really help you even with the best will in the world and I would be concerned that you are giving a lot of personal details relating to your family members and Ireland is a very small country! Would recommend again, for access to good information and for support for yourself as you deal with these difficult issues, that you contact Family Carers Ireland, https://familycarers.ie/find-us/ in your area.