Public Sector Pay Agreement (17-20)

Slimity

Just wondering what the future holds after the Public Sector pay agreement runs out in October 2020? Is it likely the unions will be back negotiating another deal in the near future?


How long more can the FEMPI impositions last? Croke Park hours, increased S&S etc?


Thanks.

deiseindublin

I don't think the teacher union ever negotiated much, took the deal that was offered, probably lots of long lunches and came away with SFA progress as far as I can see.

doc_17

Gov doesn’t negotiate with individual unions...it negotiates with ICTU as far as I know? There will be a successor to the PSSA. Talks will begin once Brexit is done. Or shortly after the next GE.

S&S and CP hours are here to stay according to the DPER.

amacca

doc_17 wrote: »

S&S and CP hours are here to stay according to the DPER.

thats why they shouldn't be conceded so easily in the first place imo

its not as if govt side negotiates in good faith all of the time either

joebloggs32

Slimity wrote: »

Just wondering what the future holds after the Public Sector pay agreement runs out in October 2020? Is it likely the unions will be back negotiating another deal in the near future?


How long more can the FEMPI impositions last? Croke Park hours, increased S&S etc?


Thanks.

They would normally start about a year out...so around now.
I would say however no one will do anything while the mess that is Brexit is all up in the air.

ethical

Money is not everything......but working conditions are!
There are very few good Union officials around today that can/will negotiate on behalf of the needs of their members.
Working conditions have been eroded substantially in the past 20 years with no sign of the cuts easing.
Its still August and most schools have been back for a week and a half..............and its still August!!!
Some teachers are fixated by having lovely colourful huge folders available for Inspectors,WHY? Doing this takes from teaching time....and more importantly from QUALITY of teaching time. Make a stance,we are professional,we carry out our plan for educating our class NOT for some failed teacher to come in and tell us what we are doing well and what we are not doing well,tell them to FOFF!
The whole POST system is a total joke with many A post holders doing sweet f.a ( and yet have their 4 hours off class contact time in ETBs).
The Unions are NOT exercising their much preached "do not do it if you are asked to do so on a voluntarily basis),many schools have Principals who are over-loading teachers (who are not post holders) with extra work,its expected that they will not refuse.
It is sad to see a Post Holder waltzing around doing sweet f.a while you have your full class contact time and all the other stuff to do in your own time.The whole system needs to be looked at NOW. Working conditions have deteriorated at an alarming rate........and the sick leave has been very much personalised for some teachers while others do not need a cert because they are well in with the Principal.
Its time to wake up and write to the Unions and tell them MONEY IS NOT EVERYTHING BUT WORKING CONDITIONS ARE.

ethical

Everyone on here obviously over the moon with the 1.75% increase due (1st Sept.)under the present plan.
Even better news :conditions will continue to deteriorate even further!

spurious

It would be better if the school year still began on Sept. 1st...among other things.
Conditions once lost, are very rarely regained.

fliball123

I dont think there will be scope to give anything extra till the dust settles on brexit

No teachers in this country should be complaining about holidays.

ethical

ethical wrote: »

Everyone on here obviously over the moon with the 1.75% increase due (1st Sept.)under the present plan.
Even better news :conditions will continue to deteriorate even further!

You mean the second increase in net pay in 9 months.

salonfire

salonfire wrote: »

You mean the second increase in net pay in 9 months.

It's part of the pay agreement agreed a few years ago. About a 6% increase due to conclude in Oct 2020.

fliball123

Deleted User wrote: »

It's part of the pay agreement agreed a few years ago. About a 6% increase due to conclude in Oct 2020.

I reckon this will be put on the back burner already the tax cuts are off the table in this budget, I cant see why the PS should be cherry picked out of all workers to get a pay rise when the rest of us cant get a tax cut. I hope your watching Pascal if we cant afford tax cuts we cant afford ps pay increases that also increase ps pensions.

gerrybbadd

fliball123 wrote: »

I reckon this will be put on the back burner already the tax cuts are off the table in this budget, I cant see why the PS should be cherry picked out of all workers to get a pay rise when the rest of us cant get a tax cut. I hope your watching Pascal if we cant afford tax cuts we cant afford ps pay increases that also increase ps pensions.

educate yourself. Its not a pay rise. Its a pay restoration

fliball123

gerrybbadd wrote: »

educate yourself. Its not a pay rise. Its a pay restoration

educate yourself its a rise in pay on your current pay so its a pay rise. honesty only the public sector can say this kind of crap as well as calling the pension levy a pay cut when it is a contribution to a defined benefit and then say that increments are not pay rises, its baffling and if you want to be correct about it the cuts you got were pay restoration for benchmarking

gerrybbadd

fliball123 wrote: »

educate yourself its a rise in pay on your current pay so its a payrise. honesty only the public sector can say that increments are not payrises, its baffling and if you want to be correct about it the cuts you got were pay restoration for benchmarking

You've gone off on several tangents and aren't making sense.

This has nothing to do with increments or benchmarking. Get it right before making your grand statements

fliball123

gerrybbadd wrote: »

You've gone off on several tangents and aren't making sense.

This has nothing to do with increments or benchmarking. Get it right before making your grand statements

What does not make sense to you? What your talking about the current proposed increases will increase the amount of pay a p.s employee takes home ergo its a pay rise..Is that simple enough to get your head around or educate yourself with?

As for the tangents I have put up the waffle thats trotted out by ps trolls on here to suit their agenda. Like I say these raises should not happen with brexit around the corner. If all employees have been told no tax cuts in the next budget as we cant afford it then it is not fair to pay the 400k ps employees a pay rise either.

spurious

Let's all read the forum charter and keep any teacher bashing in our heads.

Plenty other places where they will welcome it.

gerrybbadd

fliball123 wrote: »

What does not make sense to you? What your talking about the current proposed increases will increase the amount of pay a p.s employee takes home ergo its a pay rise..Is that simple enough to get your head around or educate yourself with?

As for the tangents I have put up the waffle thats trotted out by ps trolls on here to suit their agenda. Like I say these raises should not happen with brexit around the corner. If all employees have been told no tax cuts in the next budget as we cant afford it then it is not fair to pay the 400k ps employees a pay rise either.

Your absolute crap talk is what does not make sense. What are you on about benchmarking for? That has nothing to do with this pay RESTORATION. Not a rise. Restoration. Get your thick head around that.

fliball123

gerrybbadd wrote: »

Your absolute crap talk is what does not make sense. What are you on about benchmarking for? That has nothing to do with this pay RESTORATION. Not a rise. Restoration. Get your thick head around that.

ok so if I bold and put in caps does it make it so IT INCREASES THE PUBLIC SECTOR EMPLOYEES PAY THERE FORE IT IS A PAYRISE.



Its a pay rise simple. Also I am going on about benchmarking as it has the country in a current hole with regard to its debt a lot of money has been borrowed to cover the cost of ps pay and pensions for the last couple of decades, so for me and for people put to the pin of their collar in paying tax to pay the wage of the ps the pay cut back in the downturn was pay restoration for benchmarking and it did not come close to bringing the pay back in line to what it should be. So we will have to agree to disagree and currently the payrises for the p.s cant be afforded.


But in simple terms its a payrise..off you go

gerrybbadd

fliball123 wrote: »

ok so if I bold and put in caps does it make it so IT INCREASES THE PUBLIC SECTOR EMPLOYEES PAY THERE FORE IT IS A PAYRISE.



Its a pay rise simple. Also I am going on about benchmarking as it has the country in a current hole with regard to its debt a lot of money has been borrowed to cover the cost of ps pay and pensions for the last couple of decades, so for me and for people put to the pin of their collar in paying tax to pay the wage of the ps the pay cut back in the downturn was pay restoration for benchmarking and it did not come close to bringing the pay back in line to what it should be. So we will have to agree to disagree and currently the payrises for the p.s cant be afforded.


But in simple terms its a payrise..off you go

I'm not "going off" anywhere junior.

Pin of your collar. Boo hoo. You want to talk about trolling, and yet, here you are, in a thread that has nothing to do with you, spreading falsehoods and media rumor.

You'd swear Public/Civil servants didn't pay tax either, the way you're going on. Bottom line of it is, when the country went to shít, Public servants were made out to be the scapegoats, and took several cuts to pay and conditions. This was never intended to be a permanent thing. And now, it's payback time. It's agreed. And it's happening.

So you can boo hoo over it all you like, it'll make no difference.

fliball123

gerrybbadd wrote: »

I'm not "going off" anywhere junior.

Pin of your collar. Boo hoo. You want to talk about trolling, and yet, here you are, in a thread that has nothing to do with you, spreading falsehoods and media rumor.

You'd swear Public/Civil servants didn't pay tax either, the way you're going on. Bottom line of it is, when the country went to shít, Public servants were made out to be the scapegoats, and took several cuts to pay and conditions. This was never intended to be a permanent thing. And now, it's payback time. It's agreed. And it's happening.

So you can boo hoo over it all you like, it'll make no difference.

What falsehood did I spout???


All public sector workers have a nett minus effect on tax regardless of how much they pay!



Public servants were protected in one of the worst recessions this country has seen had not one forced job loss, lads and lassies given golden parachute payments for redundancies all voluntary.



They were told they had to pay a pensions levy for a pension that was left untouched during the recession I didnt see govenment putting their grubby hands into that pension pot like it did the private sector ones.



They still got payrises during this period through increments. How many increments went on while the pay cuts were fashioned?? We ended up saving nothing on ps pay and pensions due to this nonsense. All payments should of stopped including increments and the pay should of been cut in order to reverse the ridiculous benchmarking operation or in your words pay restoration to before benchmarking.



They didnt take anywhere near the 25% pay cuts cited here that is bullsh1t and like I say you can not include the pension levy as a cut as it is a contribution to a defined benefit that anyone in the private sector would chop their left nut off for.



We will see if it happens, if there is a no deal brexit it wont pascal cant tell the private sector no tax cuts for you we cant afford it and then turn around and pay the public sector a pay rise if he does that FG will be decimated in the next election

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's part of the pay agreement agreed a few years ago. About a 6% increase due to conclude in Oct 2020.

There's more to it than just salary increases.

The threshold for paying the pension levy has also increased during the same period.

So more in net pay for public sector workers than meets the eye.

ethical

Remember there were increment pay freezes for PS during the recession,a recession that went on longer for PS than for others ,if Gov. Ministers were to be believed.
Anyone remember Gov Min telling the world that the recession was over in Ireland while ramping up FEMPI for PS?

Anyways its the conditions of employment that are most important now,Dept of Ed spouting WELLBEING for students and yet nothing for Teachers as they struggle on zero contract hours,its actually costing some teachers to go to work in as far as they have damn all to show for it at the end of the month.Is it any wonder the majority get fed up and head away after being treated like sh1t for a year or two?

salonfire

salonfire wrote: »

There's more to it than just salary increases.

The threshold for paying the pension levy has also increased during the same period.

So more in net pay for public sector workers than meets the eye.

And rightly so after all they did to help the country back on its feet after the private sector shenanigans nearly bankrupt the country.

A little gratitude from yourself and fliball wouldn't go amiss.

rainbowtrout

fliball123 wrote: »

Public servants were protected in one of the worst recessions this country has seen had not one forced job loss, lads and lassies given golden parachute payments for redundancies all voluntary.

They didn't have to have forced job losses. All they had to do is not renew temporary contracts.... plenty of teachers and people in the public service would have found that they didn't have a job when their contract ended and ended up unemployed without any payout.

There was a freeze in hiring in the public service, so people who retired or left for any other reason were not replaced, which reduced the workforce one way or another.

fliball123 wrote: »

They still got payrises during this period through increments. How many increments went on while the pay cuts were fashioned?? We ended up saving nothing on ps pay and pensions due to this nonsense. All payments should of stopped including increments and the pay should of been cut in order to reverse the ridiculous benchmarking operation or in your words pay restoration to before benchmarking.

I distinctly remember by increments being frozen twice during the recession as I'm sure other teachers remember as well. We also took a paycut of around 10% as well as a pension levy which doubled what is taken out of my salary per fortnight under the heading of pension/pension levy. It's still coming out 10 years later despite the fact that we are no longer in recession.

fliball123 wrote: »

They didnt take anywhere near the 25% pay cuts cited here that is bullsh1t and like I say you can not include the pension levy as a cut as it is a contribution to a defined benefit that anyone in the private sector would chop their left nut off for.

You are more than welcome to apply for a job in the public sector if you find the pension so attractive. I don't have a single friend who became a teacher because of the pension. However in regard to your remark on the levy. Our contribution has doubled, and we are still getting the same pension at the end of it. Not many things in life that suddenly double in price without any added value.


You also ignore that paying into the pension is compulsory from the day you join the public sector. I've been paying into a pension from the age of 22. If I teach for 40 years I will make 40 years of contributions. I would say there are few people who will make 40 years of contributions to a private pension. And in case you were thinking of making the argument that lots can't afford it, plenty of people start in the public/civil service on low wages and have to make that payment, there is no opt out.

honeybear

I got 2 euro extra today. Yippee!!!

rainbowtrout

honeybear wrote: »

I got 2 euro extra today. Yippee!!!

Ah wait for the next pay cheque, you'll be absolutely rolling in €15:pac:

Cash_Q

honeybear wrote:

I got 2 euro extra today. Yippee!!!

Me too and didn't even notice til I read your post lol, I'll try not to spend it all at once!

joebloggs32

Cash_Q wrote: »

Me too and didn't even notice til I read your post lol, I'll try not to spend it all at once!

The rise hasn't properly kicked in. It only applies to days after September 1st

fliball123

Deleted User wrote: »

And rightly so after all they did to help the country back on its feet after the private sector shenanigans nearly bankrupt the country.

A little gratitude from yourself and fliball wouldn't go amiss.

As I say they gave a bit but no where near enough and we as the country had to borrow billions for paying their pay and pensions over the last couple of decades so you wont be getting any gratitude from me

Treppen

fliball123 wrote: »

As I say they gave a bit but no where near enough and we as the country had to borrow billions for paying their pay and pensions over the last couple of decades so you wont be getting any gratitude from me

Shur twas the public sector who broke the country wasnt it.
Banks? No they're fine... Nothing to see there. Give em back their jobs and bonuses. Give the bondholders the money they took the high risk on.

Cash_Q

joebloggs32 wrote:

The rise hasn't properly kicked in. It only applies to days after September 1st

My reply was about the 2euro extra that I received yesterday, nothing else.

TimeToShine

gerrybbadd wrote: »

I'm not "going off" anywhere junior.

Pin of your collar. Boo hoo. You want to talk about trolling, and yet, here you are, in a thread that has nothing to do with you, spreading falsehoods and media rumor.

You'd swear Public/Civil servants didn't pay tax either, the way you're going on. Bottom line of it is, when the country went to shít, Public servants were made out to be the scapegoats, and took several cuts to pay and conditions. This was never intended to be a permanent thing. And now, it's payback time. It's agreed. And it's happening.

So you can boo hoo over it all you like, it'll make no difference.

No, the private sector took the hit via people actually losing their jobs. You have some cheek saying that those who took a couple of percent pay cut were made out to be scapegoats when private sector employees were losing livelihoods left right and centre. And no, a few bankers at the top do not represent all private sector employees like some posts here seem to be implying.

TimeToShine

TimeToShine wrote: »

No, the private sector took the hit via people actually losing their jobs. You have some cheek saying that those who took a couple of percent pay cut were made out to be scapegoats when private sector employees were losing livelihoods left right and centre. And no, a few bankers at the top do not represent all private sector employees like some posts here seem to be implying.

What percentage of private sector workers lost their jobs?

All public servants took two paycuts and an increase in their hours.

Btw what does a couple mean. Do you mean 2%. If so that's dishonesty right off the bat.

Treppen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What percentage of private sector workers lost their jobs?

All public servants took two paycuts and an increase in their hours.

Btw what does a couple mean. Do you mean 2%. If so that's dishonesty right off the bat.

I suppose they wouldn't be happy until the hospital's and schools were shut. Then at least we'd solve the 'public sector pay bankrupting the country bother'.