Shuttered concrete walls

moldy_sea

Anyone provide reasons for and against building a 2 storey 3 bed, detached, less than 200 sqm house by using shuttered concrete walls and EWI?

sydthebeat

moldy_sea wrote: »

Anyone provide reasons for and against building a 2 storey 3 bed, detached, less than 200 sqm house by using shuttered concrete walls and EWI?

Much cheaper to do with block on flat

BryanF

It would be class!!

Huge level of coordination and skill to pull it off properly

kieran.

None there is a concrete company in Co Monaghan providing that very method in an off-site solution.

Calahonda52

moldy_sea wrote: »

Anyone provide reasons for and against building a 2 storey 3 bed, detached, less than 200 sqm house by using shuttered concrete walls and EWI?

What about ICF?

housetypeb

The lads who build slurry tanks and silage holding walls for farmers,which are built to spec for grants, could be an avenue to explore if you're rural/semi rural.
Harder to drill holes in the concrete rather than the block wall for the external insulation mushroom fittings later,but other than that, it's doable with a good engineer and attention to details.

Interesting thread.

mloc123

Recent series of grand designs had a house that was build all from shuttered concrete, using insulation fibre mixed into the concrete. Worth a look if you can get it on 4od

BryanF

mloc123 wrote: »

Recent series of grand designs had a house that was build all from shuttered concrete, using insulation fibre mixed into the concrete. Worth a look if you can get it on 4od

Interested to here from structural engineers Re adding ‘insulation fibre’ to concrete - I’m familiar with aerated/foamed concrete but haven’t seen study/test/data sheet on the above

JonathonS

mloc123 wrote: »

Recent series of grand designs had a house that was build all from shuttered concrete, using insulation fibre mixed into the concrete. Worth a look if you can get it on 4od

From memory the fibre was to replace metal reinforcing, it didn't have any insulating properties.

moldy_sea

Calahonda52 wrote: »

What about ICF?

As far as I know I'd need EWI and/or insulated plaster board to get 0.18 u value with ICF.

To properly compare I guess we'd need a template to capture all the factors (would be a good thread) and I'll likely wind up there. ICF will be in the mix.

I came across Monaghan crowd and this led me to my query.

Markcheese

Why would you want to though, it'd be a huge amount of hassle to do the windows and doors, and apart from being able to crash a tractor into it without it falling over I don't really see why?
(I can see why you'd do a basement style thing)

mloc123

JonathonS wrote: »

From memory the fibre was to replace metal reinforcing, it didn't have any insulating properties.

I might be getting mixed up so, did he include rigid insulation within the poured walls?

Lumen

Hem(p)crete?

https://passivehouseplus.ie/magazine/new-build/ireland-s-1st-hemp-built-passive-house

moldy_sea

Markcheese wrote: »

Why would you want to though, it'd be a huge amount of hassle to do the windows and doors, and apart from being able to crash a tractor into it without it falling over I don't really see why?
(I can see why you'd do a basement style thing)

I'm looking to discover the reasons for/against. I haven't decided to use this method yet, just gathering reasons. Maybe it is for the birds but people are doing it so I'm checking out why. Maybe it's the tractors

Why are windows/doors hassle?

sydthebeat

moldy_sea wrote: »

I'm looking to discover the reasons for/against. I haven't decided to use this method yet, just gathering reasons. Maybe it is for the birds but people are doing it so I'm checking out why. Maybe it's the tractors

Why are windows/doors hassle?

the main reason it would be done would be if there topography demands some kind of basement / retaining wall structure, or if the build has some unusual tight curves, or off plumb deign, which would be difficult to do with blockwork.

for a standard build it would be much more economical and workable to do with block on flat.

Ive seen ICF used on a 3 storey build with a basement section, and i wouldnt be overly impressed.

Dudda

moldy_sea wrote: »

I'm looking to discover the reasons for/against. I haven't decided to use this method yet, just gathering reasons. Maybe it is for the birds but people are doing it so I'm checking out why. Maybe it's the tractors

Why are windows/doors hassle?

I’ve done one feature board marked reinforced concrete wall earlier this year that’s 6.5m tall in a house that’s otherwise timber frame. The wall is in the double height space at the entrance and stairs. It was poured on site in three parts due to the height. These types of walls look amazing. One of the best people at this is the Japanese architect Tadao Ando who I studied a lot in college. Google his buildings for ideas. What I learned is the carpenter who makes the timber formwork is probably more important than anyone else. If the timber is wrong you can't fix it later without ripping the concrete down and starting again. The formwork is particularly important around windows and doors which is tricky and time consuming. If the timber moves under the weight of the concrete when pouring it you'll have opes which are off square.

I’ve also used precast concrete twin walls on a student housing project. Precast concrete walls are great where you’ve lots of repetition. Also great on inner city sites where you’ve limited access and it’s easier to just crane finished elements into position. A one off house doesn’t have a lot of repetition in walls but does in a floor which is why hollowcore slabs are used in floors in houses but the repetition isn’t there for walls.

Both these are way too expensive for a one off house.

An option is ICF (Insulated Concrete Formwork). These are foam blocks you click together and then fill with concrete. The foam is permanent insulation. The advantage is I believe you can construct these yourself relatively easily with basic DIY skills. You can get the foam blocks with different thickness of insulation and in Ireland to meet the regulations you’d need the thicker foam ones. Otherwise you’d be looking at adding additional external insulation to the walls once complete. This is probably the only realistic option (for a regular budget) compared to the traditional block or timber frame options for a one off house.

ht9zni1gs28crp

I did a feature wall in ours, adjacent to the stairwell and it serves as a handrail above. So shuttered timber to take the timber impression. Came out well. Like Dudda says its all in the shutterers workmanship and standard. We had a slight movement mid pour which wasnt ideal, I stopped the pour, tightened it all up and started another day....

To get an imprinted board style wall you ideally need to shutter it first and then use the modern pans on top to clamp it all together.

Id imagine a full house envelope would be expensive! But very different and super cool to be fair!

moldy_sea

So the crowd in Monaghan do this off site. You get to floor slab and they go up from there. They offer predesigned houses or custom. The snag is if you go custom you really need to engage very early. They have a few standard dimensions they work to and won't be able to match any old drawing. You basically have to redesign with their system in mind. Having said that they claim to go from on site to handover in 6 weeks and the prices seem competitive.

moldy_sea

miller_63 wrote: »

I did a feature wall in ours, adjacent to the stairwell and it serves as a handrail above. So shuttered timber to take the timber impression. Came out well. Like Dudda says its all in the shutterers workmanship and standard. We had a slight movement mid pour which wasnt ideal, I stopped the pour, tightened it all up and started another day....

To get an imprinted board style wall you ideally need to shutter it first and then use the modern pans on top to clamp it all together.

Id imagine a full house envelope would be expensive! But very different and super cool to be fair!

Great looking wall.

furandfeather

image.jpeg

Roofed this today, and I thought of ya!

0lddog

moldy_sea wrote: »

Anyone provide reasons for and against building a 2 storey 3 bed, detached, less than 200 sqm house by using shuttered concrete walls ......?

Off topic aside :

I think that the Berkeley Library in TCD was built in the '60s based on this idea.

Anyone interested in seeing how it ages might visit same

https://abkdublin.com/portfolio/berkeley-library/