Buying a 40kWh Leaf as a family car

blindside88

Hi guys,

I’m considering changing from a company car (where I pay a high rate of BIK) to an electric. I’ve done the numbers and it makes sense to hand back the company car but what I buy is another story.

I had considered buying a diesel automatic but am more and more tempted by the leaf, especially since driving it. My worries are:

1) is the boot big enough? My wife is expecting our first child and don’t know will I have enough room in a leaf.
2) will I regret not going for the 60kWh battery. The range on the 40KWh will do me fine for work and 90% of my personal driving (my wife also has a diesel focus)
3) are there any hidden costs (servicing etc I’m not considering)

Any input would be greatly appreciated

krissovo

I recently bought the 40kw, the boot is decent and surprisingly to us it was bigger than our previous Volvo SUV. If you have your pram /push chair take it to try out but our old Quinny buzz fit in no problem. We have the SVE so it does have a annoying Bose amp in the boot which is a minor inconvenience at times.

I was originally hanging on the 60kw but I don’t see any value especially if you are keeping a ICE car. I have zero regrets, I did a drive Cork to Dublin and back and it was fine charging twice. The 60 would have done it with a single charge so I would have saved 30 minutes but as it was a leisure trip it was stress free and we used the time constructively. The extra power in the 60 is ok but the 40 already suffers with a bit of wheel spin and torque steer but still has great pull when you put the foot down.

No hidden costs at all, the e pedal reduces any brake wear so servicing should be cheap. I did order a leaf spy dongle and boot storage tray so it would cover the Bose amp. I do get wheel spin at times so tyres could Have a slightly reduced life.

Its a comfy commuter, the zero G seats are like a comfy armchair and if you get the propilot (SVE) and commute on major roads it almost like the Tesla autopilot and works great in heavy traffic so morning rush hour is a different experience for us now. The driving is ok, its a bit lifeless and has torque steer but all in all if you can charge at home or work and avoid rapid charging the car is a good buy.

Dealers still have some pre 192 stock that they reserved pre-price hike so there should be some haggle room on the 40. Our SVE was €31,440 after the price increase.

KCross

blindside88 wrote: »

I’m considering changing from a company car (where I pay a high rate of BIK) to an electric. I’ve done the numbers and it makes sense to hand back the company car but what I buy is another story.

Just in case you dont know, there is no BIK on a company electric car (upto €50k, I think). Will the company buy you an electric car?

grudgehugger

krissovo posted a great detailed review. I have the Leaf 40 for over a year and a essentially agree with what’s said there.

Boot is quite spacious.

On 40 vs 60, it’s all about understanding your driving patterns and being comfortable with the choice you make. If 90%+ of your driving is trips under 150km and you have a home charger, I’d go for the 40 and focus on the money you saved by not buying the larger battery.

blindside88

KCross wrote: »

Just in case you dont know, there is no BIK on a company electric car (upto €50k, I think). Will the company buy you an electric car?

The company won’t buy an electric unfortunately, the car lost available is quite limited

Mike9832

New Ioniq is out in the UK next month for Leaf40 money

Would expect it arrive here soon after

It will have alot more range than the Leaf40, especially on the motorway

I would think 200km+ on motorway and 250km+ mixed, easy all year round

Leaf40 ain't getting near that

https://mobile.hyundai.co.uk/category/upcoming-cars

blindside88

Mike9832 wrote: »

New Ioniq is out in the UK next month for Leaf40 money

Would expect it arrive here soon after

It will have alot more range than the Leaf40, especially on the motorway

I would think 200km+ on motorway and 250km+ mixed, easy all year round

Leaf40 ain't getting near that

https://mobile.hyundai.co.uk/category/upcoming-cars

Thanks for that, what is the drive like in comparison to the leaf? I hated the look of the old leaf but like the new design, similarly I don’t like the look of the Ioniq, is there much of a facelift on the 2020 model?

kanuseeme

A leaf size wise, is only 5 cm lower in height than a Qasqai,

There is other options like a plug in, do you have a charger in work? Whats your commute?

blindside88

kanuseeme wrote: »

A leaf size wise, is only 5 cm lower in height than a Qasqai,

There is other options like a plug in, do you have a charger in work? Whats your commute?

No charger in work, I work between 5 branches, closest is 2km from my house, furthest is 30km from my house. Sometimes go between 2 or 3 branches a day but that’s be a max of about 100km. I looked a a plug in hybrid also

unkel

blindside88 wrote: »

I don’t like the look of the Ioniq, is there much of a facelift on the 2020 model?

Not much. It looks fresher and they got rid of the horrible plastic grille of the original

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqwYe3EZOZM

If you don't like the look of it, don't need the extra range, don't need to use fast chargers often, and never more than once in a day and don't mind that you will not be able to fast charge at the Ionity network, then just get the Leaf!

...Ghost...

unkel wrote: »

Not much. It looks fresher and they got rid of the horrible plastic grille of the original

It definitely looks fresher, but there is still too much of an ugly grille on that. It doesn't look like it belongs on the car. The original Ioniq looks nicer than the original Leaf and the new Leaf looks better than the new Ioniq. Of course, style is a personal thing.

Sound like the L40 would be ideal for the OP.

blindside88

unkel wrote: »

Not much. It looks fresher and they got rid of the horrible plastic grille of the original

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqwYe3EZOZM

If you don't like the look of it, don't need the extra range, don't need to use fast chargers often, and never more than once in a day and don't mind that you will not be able to fast charge at the Ionity network, then just get the Leaf!

Could you explain those extra points a bit further. Sorry if they’re obvious but I’m new to EVs. Why would I not be able to use fast chargers in a Leaf? And why would I now be not be able to charge more than once in a day?

unkel

Leaf does not have any cooling of the battery. This lead to a problem called #rapidgate. If you try to fast charge after driving it hard, or on a hot day, or after having fast charged it already that day, you can encounter this problem and it will lead to your car taking up to 2 hours to fast charge (instead of 30-40 minutes). A dealer can now apply a fix, but that's only a software change allowing the battery to get even hotter than before. This is bad for battery life.

Also there is a new private network being built (Ionity) where all current EVs can charge, but not the Leaf as it has the obsolete CHAdeMO charging system. The standard DC fast charging system used by all other new EVs is CCS. You can still fast charge at the public network, but it is in a bad state of repair and congested and only one EV can charge at a time. If there are 2 cars in front of you and both decide to charge until they are full, you could look at 4 hours waiting. The government has been promising upgrades to the public network but this hasn't happened yet. At Ionity 4-6 cars can charge at the same time, so there are zero or very small waiting times. If you never need to fast charge, this is of course irrelevant. Although it might impact the resale value of the car.

blindside88

unkel wrote: »

Leaf does not have any cooling of the battery. This lead to a problem called #rapidgate. If you try to fast charge after driving it hard, or on a hot day, or after having fast charged it already that day, you can encounter this problem and it will lead to your car taking up to 2 hours to fast charge (instead of 30-40 minutes). A dealer can now apply a fix, but that's only a software change allowing the battery to get even hotter than before. This is bad for battery life.

Also there is a new private network being built (Ionity) where all current EVs can charge, but not the Leaf as it has the obsolete CHAdeMO charging system. The standard DC fast charging system used by all other new EVs is CCS. You can still fast charge at the public network, but it is in a bad state of repair and congested and only one EV can charge at a time. If there are 2 cars in front of you and both decide to charge until they are full, you could look at 4 hours waiting. The government has been promising upgrades to the public network but this hasn't happened yet. At Ionity 4-6 cars can charge at the same time, so there are zero or very small waiting times. If you never need to fast charge, this is of course irrelevant. Although it might impact the resale value of the car.

Thanks for the info, I don’t plan on needing to fast charge but you never know in 2-3 years it could be an issue. Resale could also be an issue as you point out

unkel

Public charging is free, but it is expected that charging will be brought in. Once that happens, the current public charging network will instantly be less overburdened. And it's quite likely the public charging system will be improved over the next few years. So if you take that into consideration and you say you don't need to fast charge yourself at all, the Leaf is still a good choice of EV.

I would recommend you do a bit more research though before parting with a lot of money

Have a read of the dedicated threads on here on both cars mentioned. Also did you consider the eGolf? Another excellent EV. Are you definitely buying new or would you consider second hand? Do you want to buy right now, or can it wait until the start of 2020 or even later?

blindside88

unkel wrote: »

Public charging is free, but it is expected that charging will be brought in. Once that happens, the current public charging network will instantly be less overburdened. And it's quite likely the public charging system will be improved over the next few years. So if you take that into consideration and you say you don't need to fast charge yourself at all, the Leaf is still a good choice of EV.

I would recommend you do a bit more research though before parting with a lot of money

Have a read of the dedicated threads on here on both cars mentioned. Also did you consider the eGolf? Another excellent EV. Are you definitely buying new or would you consider second hand? Do you want to buy right now, or can it wait until the start of 2020 or even later?

I have dipped in and out of a few threads but will definitely do more research before buying. I wouldn’t mind second hand either. I need to buy before March of 2020

krissovo

Given your timeline you have some more options as the e-niro and model 3 should be available then also the e-golf might have some stock.

I am not worried about Leaf residuals at all for next few years, plenty of loyalty with the gen 1 owners out there. Every time I charge and chat to owner of a gen 1 owner they mostly want the new model and not that interested in one of the new bread of EV’s. Current prices for 2nd hand are holding quite well, they will probably drop slightly once significant quantities of kona’s, Niro’s & the model 3 finally lands as people trade up but demand for EV’s are growing and there is a void in the market.

Lumen

Dropping 30+k on a non-CCS EV seems like a brave move unless you plan to keep it a very long time and (obviously) have home charging.

In 5 years time there should be plentiful supply of used 40kWh CCS EVs with battery depletion giving them motorway range of maybe 150km year round, with hopefully enough CCS to make longer trips painless, so a chademo Leaf with similar range would need to be really cheap to compete.

OTOH a 30k Leaf losing 80% over 5 years has same depreciation as 40k eNiro losing 60% over 5 years, so rates of depreciation aren't everything.

unkel

Lumen wrote: »

a 30k Leaf losing 80% over 5 years

Even in worst case scenario, that is not going to happen. For a long time there will be a strong market for lower priced second hand EVs with lots of demand for them and very little supply, keeping prices high (and your depreciation low)

krissovo

EV Opinion has hit the nail on the head for a honest review of the Leaf 40 with all the plus points and negatives. Its a solid car and good option for most use cases, if you have come from a run of the mil "normal" car you will love it. If you have luxury or sporty car then it will be a little bland.

The only thing to add is that on the SVE or Tekna version the pro pilot for a busy & congested commute makes the journey really stress free. Its 2nd only to Tesla for assisted driving so almost champagne driving on a beer budget.

blindside88

Thanks everyone for the input. I might hold tight for the moment and see what the reviews of the upcoming EV options in 2020 hold

unkel

blindside88 wrote: »

Thanks everyone for the input. I might hold tight for the moment and see what the reviews of the upcoming EV options in 2020 hold

Always a good idea to be very well informed about what's out there. It will make for the best decision for you.

adunis

I gotta say.
Grille on the new Ioniq is rank
I'm ambivalent about the lights
Interior is nice.
Back on topic a good deal could be had in outgoing Ioniq,a superior car to the leaf 40,same real world range and CCS