Leaf degradation 24kW v 40kW

Stealthirl

My 142 24kW currently shows an average SOH of 92.3 % over the last 15K km and currently has 55K km. Fully charged leaf spy reports 20.5kW remaining. I get between 100 (winter) and 130km (summer) per charge.


I was thinking about changing to a 40kW if the right one comes up but im seeing reports of SOH between 90 and 94% for alot of them. That 10-6% is much worse then 7% on an older 24kW with more km's. I wouldn't like forking out on an L40 to have 80% or less in 2-3 years.

It has me second guessing the switch unless it was a very good deal. I think €27k is about bottom of the market for 18 Tekna/SVE L40s

I'd have €15-18K aswell as my Tekna.

Should i just keep the 24kW another 2-3 years and maybe go for a used e-soul or buzz if it's out and within budget ?

Mike9832

It could be just software,not a good sign anyway

Wouldn't touch an almost 2 year old Leaf for €27,000 so many better cars out there

e-Golf easily available in 191 for €27,000 easy in UK

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201903286376246?advertising-location=at_cars&year-from=2019&postcode=m52ty&page=1&make=VOLKSWAGEN&fuel-type=Electric&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used

slave1

In the same boat with a L30 SOH being great versus all these L40 SOH with consistent ~7% degradation after 18months.
I'm holding on the L30

It’s mad, back in 2015 when I bought the leaf I thought by now there’d be much more electrics to choose and even thought the charging network would be much better.

Zenith74

Stealthirl wrote: »

My 142 24kW currently shows an average SOH of 92.3 % over the last 15K km and currently has 55K km.

Tbf you've done exceptionally well, 85/86/87% would be the norm for a 142 at this stage. Not that that makes the degradation of the 40kWh OK , but I'm just calling out that you may be comparing your exceptionally rare case with stories on the Internet which have a selection bias towards the worst cases.

kennethsmyth

The degradation seen on the 40kWh looks to be a software degradation - almost exactly 0.01 percent a day.

Mike9832

kennethsmyth wrote: »

The degradation seen on the 40kWh looks to be a software degradation - almost exactly 0.01 percent a day.

Appears that way alright

30kWh Leafs went from sub 80% to over 90% with the recent the updates

If similar happens with Leaf40 then no need to worry

Stealthirl

How long did it take Nissan to roll out the update to the 30s ? 2-3 years ? So if there's an update coming you would expect to see it in the next 6-9months.

slave1

After having to correct software on the L30 why would Nissan release a L40 with the same errors.
There is zero flagging of a software update for the L40 so there's nothing to say this degradation is incorrect

kennethsmyth

slave1 wrote: »

After having to correct software on the L30 why would Nissan release a L40 with the same errors.
There is zero flagging of a software update for the L40 so there's nothing to say this degradation is incorrect

Theres no way that the actual degradation would be that linear - its like almost exactly 0.01% per day consistantly.

Every new battery chemistry revision works differently and at the time the 40 kWh chemistry went in the cars Nissan probably guessed how the battery will degrade and programmed some random downward SOH trajectory in the firmware. As the L40 "degrades" a bunch every 3 months *exactly* from the date of manufacture it definitely it looks like a software glitch to me.

There is no hurry for Nissan to provide an official update until the oldest cars are in a risk of dropping a bar. My April '18 car is pretty much half way through tha process and some early UK deliveries are three months ahead of me. I fully expect a firmware upgrade before the 2nd birthday of my car as the real range of our car is exactly the same with this "degradation" as when it was new.

Mike9832

samih wrote: »

Every new battery chemistry revision works differently and at the time the 40 kWh chemistry went in the cars Nissan probably guessed how the battery will degrade and programmed some random downward SOH trajectory in the firmware. As the L40 "degrades" a bunch every 3 months *exactly* from the date of manufacture it definitely it looks like a software glitch to me.

There is no hurry for Nissan to provide an official update until the oldest cars are in a risk of dropping a bar. My April '18 car is pretty much half way through tha process and some early UK deliveries are three months ahead of me. I fully expect a firmware upgrade before the 2nd birthday of my car as the real range of our car is exactly the same with this "degradation" as when it was new.

Do you lose range?

Mike9832

Mike9832 wrote: »

Do you lose range?

As stated I have not seen any actual noticeable loss of range so far. And I suspect close to 7% loss should be noticeable if it actually existed.

kennethsmyth

Just to give some background, I am noticing a difference between leafspy state of health and actual kWH dropped.

Below is some of my data on my 40kWH leaf, note that I have a calculated drop in kWH in red and SOH in blue. Mileage is at 32,000kms

If this continued it would put my leaf in 8 years at 64.24% per calculation and 47.44% if per SOH. However I am doing approx 28,000kms per year this would mean I would reach my 160,000kms warranty at 5.7years. I may need to watch my mileage going forwards - but the car is so easy to drive! our other car is rarely used now.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/x33qiigo6ia2t9g/ScreenShot258.jpg?dl=0

Interesting, how are you calculating the drop in kWh?

Edit: You can see the large drops in SOH every three months I mentioned in your data also.

kennethsmyth

Drop in kWH is using a base of assuming one of my first 100% charges per the car which showed the highest kWH (38.4) and calculating thus:

98.80% per leafspy = 38.40kWH then 100% per leafspy would be 38.8664kWH, and then showing the SOH as per leafspy also.

Using the above as a base (essentially that 38.8664 = 100%) I can calculate even if I haven't charged to 100%

Its not exactly correct as I obtained the car mid may but only had the leafspy dongle since July but its not a bad assumption.

Cool, thank you for the detailed data. Will be interesting to see if the SOH and the real capacity will continue to drift apart in the future. About 5 percent real drop in the first year is expected and the rate of capacity loss should lessen in the following years so the elusive free battery during the warranty period may not happen. There is a reason why all of the BEVs guarantee 70% capacity after 5-8 years.

kennethsmyth

The battery warranty on the leaf actually equates to about 66% not 70% so a little unfair but at least its for 8 years. For me even if i run to 50% of battery (38.5 x 50% say)= 19,250 WH less say 4kWH buffer at bottom (only 2 needed but I'm conservative) this equals 15,250WH. I do approx 80kms commute a day so 15250/80 = 190.6 WH efficiency only needed.

That means my car can stay as main commuter car even if I only have 50% battery in years to come and I can still run it inefficiently at 190WH or 120kph on the motorway part of my run.