Ongoing relationships issues with my wife

LegacyUser

So I posted here a few years ago (regular posted but going anon) about ongoing issues I have with my marriage, particularly when it comes to my wife’s interaction family. It was a serious point of friction between us. We're married almost 20 years, one child in secondary school.
More or less since day one there's been an issue with my family - my wife sort of tolerated it for a while, but over the last 10 years or so she's completely disengaged from my family. I mean 100% disengaged. This works for me, as the hassle and stress of dealing with visits became too much, there were weeks of arguing on the lead up to a visit and arguments for weeks after. So much that I arranged counselling with a marriage counsellor about 5 years ago. One of the suggestions was that my wife seeks her own one on one counselling, which she didn't like and did nothing about - she has obvious deep routed issues with her own family, they're not too close. Her sister suffers from depression, anxiety and agoraphobia and is on medication. I feel my wife is the same, just does nothing about it. So much so that her brother and wife / kids travelled back abroad for the first time (he's abroad about 10 years) recently and we barely saw them. Didn't even spend a night in our house for dinner etc. Plans kept getting made and changed, totally in flux.
She visits her parents very infrequently - could go 2 - 3 years without a visit home, but she'll see them at our house (at a minutes notice, which I don't ng made and changed, totally fluid. mind) or her sisters every now and again .Her won mother is quite cold and disconnected, not fond of children (she has several grand kids, but hasn't spent a single day with them one on one, nor will they visit her house). I get one well with my in-laws, no issues and take them at face value. My wife is quite a loaner / solitary person. Shen we're away visiting for weekends, she'll barely leave the house or even speak to another human being.

So the disengagement form my own family became normal for me. I got used to going to family events - Christmas, reunions, communions/ confirmations etc on my own. Even family funerals my wife didn't attend - lost 3 uncles and and aunt over a few years. Not bothered to attend. It's so normal that I just plan my thing and do it. I;m adamant that my son will keep the link with his family - aunts / uncles, cousins etc. My wife hasn't seen her own niece and nephew on my side in years - they don't even ask about her anymore, totally forgotten about her. She has zero interest in them.

A lot of the issues I feel is pure snobbery with my family - my parents are separated (i haven't seen my father in 20 years), my mother lives alone a state pension, my brothers are salt of the earth. My own wife's family would have a fairly high opinion of themselves- father-in-law is a retired medical professional, very comfortable. Likewise, her sister lives in a very exclusive house, nice car, husband is a high flying executive etc. We live quite modestly - put a house under us with zero help from anybody, which I'm immensely proud of. Likewise, myself and my brother put ourselves through 3rd level and post-grad. I've what I'd consider to be a good job - paid well, but vulnerable to economic shocks. I'm a pragmatist - make hay while the sun shines, but save for a rainy day.

Anyway where it all came to a head was about 2 weeks ago. We were on holidays and my son mentioned how he was really looking forward to seeing his granny (my mother) in his own house this Christmas. It'll be the first time since 2010 my mother has visited us anytime over Christmas. My wife has seen my mother once since 2011 - her birthday 5 years ago, and my son's confirmation earlier this year. So like 3 times over a decade virtually.

Normally, we would have her parents on xmas day, then over to her sisters St. Stephens' I would head to my own family on the 27th . Upon hearing this she acted surprised,but we've spoken about it - my son attested to this, she got up and left the meal we were having in a restaurant and stomped back to our accommodation. mentioned how I'd messed up the last night of our holiday. My son was upset and confused.

So fast forward 2 weeks later - our wedding picture has been taken down in the kitchen , and we've barely spoken. It's not stressing me out at all - I'm playing it cool and not being provoked into an argument - but have suggested she seeks counselling there're obviously severe underlying issues and resentment she's not dealing with.

Any suggestions?

HalloweenJack

Have you ever asked her why she is this way with your family?

Ursus Horribilis

What is your marriage like otherwise? She sounds difficult. Is she?

qwerty13

Do other things cause her to react in the same way, or is ‘just’ your family?

milli milli

OP would you say your own relationship with your family is quite ‘normal’ - as in you all get on quite well and generally like each other (with the occasional disagreement) and would you say her family is quite dysfunctional?

That’s the impression I got from your description. I could be wrong here, but I’m wondering if she is not sure how to handle being in a ‘normal, loving’ family setup, considering her own upbringing was so cold and she has issues stemming from that (or could be stemming from that - depression, anxiety, etc).
Maybe she hasn’t resolved her issues from her upbringing?

How is she as a wife, a mother? Would she be warm and loving or distant?

wiggle16

As other posters have asked, has she ever made any attempt to explain her attitude to your family? She does sound very difficult.

Her behaviour has probably soured your family's view of her as well. Either way, she's probably not going to change now.

Based on what you've written it sounds like you have both checked out of the relationship to some extent. Might seem obvious, but what would you need her to change in order to salvage the relationship?
It's not just her attitude to your family, is it?

Ursus Horribilis

I don't think you have many options here. Either you continue to put up with this as you've been doing for years or you end the marriage. Unless she underwent a drastic personality change after you married, this is the sort of person she has always been. It's awful to read how she upset your son but it's consistent with the rest of her behaviour. She doesn't sound like a person who has much warmth or empathy. What sort of wife is she? What sort of mother is she?

There's no point in suggesting she goes for any sort of counselling if she is unwilling to engage with it. Maybe you and your son are the ones who need it, living in that home with her.

Edit: You don't think this serious or a cause for concern? Why? Has this happened before?

So fast forward 2 weeks later - our wedding picture has been taken down in the kitchen , and we've barely spoken. It's not stressing me out at all - I'm playing it cool and not being provoked into an argument...

sReq | uTeK

Wow. If my wife for reasons unknown pretty much excommunicated my family from our house I'd A. Want to know why? And B. If it was for no reason whatsoever I'd be gone.

Ursus Horribilis

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Wow. If my wife for reasons unknown pretty much excommunicated my family from our house I'd A. Want to know why? And B. If it was for no reason whatsoever I'd be gone.

I guess it's the boiling frog analogy at work here. This crept up on our OP. I too think it's appalling but he seems to have gone for the dancing around her approach.

ElizaBennett

I have a friend who has been with her partner for well over 20 years and never wants to marry as she feels that would make her more 'obliged' to engage with his family. She has nothing in particular against them (though their house is really messy and dirty, which doesn't help) but she just always said she wanted to be with him, not his family, and she doesn't want to have to take that on and all it entails. They're happily together all this time and the unspoken agreement is she goes to visit his folks once a year at most but usually less often. Everyone is used to how she is. He's her life partner but she definitely doesn't view his nieces and nephews as anything to do with her, for example. I don't agree that being married or not makes any difference but to her it does. She feels less guilty about her outlook on things by not being married. Some people are just not into people that much and would rather stick to a very small circle of close relatives and friends and not expand beyond that. OP's wife sounds the same. But are they still compatible, probably not unfortunately..

Ursus Horribilis

She upset her own son though. That's cold.

ILoveYourVibes

I am not sure i understand all of your post but is it this?

Your wife has a more nuclear based idea of what a family is and you have a more extended family idea of what a family is?

So she feels you spending time with your extended family is neglecting the nuclear family etc?

That is just the difference in how you were raised.

Tell her you will be understanding of her ideals and she must be a little understanding of yours.

For one stop thinking her idea of family is cold or wrong. Its different. Not everyone would go to uncles funerals.

Some people just have a very nuclear idea of family values. They see a very firm separation from the old family once you marry and have children of your own. Their ideals are all about strengthening and loyalty to this nuclear family unit over anything else.

Its not wrong its just different.

You have a different family ideal where extended family are a part of your life and someone you want to have a connection to and for your son to have a connection to.

Just say to your wife you know her feelings and ideals are not wrong but that you were raised slightly differently to her and you would like to pass on a little bit of this to your son.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I am not sure i understand all of your post but is it this?

Your wife has a more nuclear based idea of what a family is and you have a more extended family idea of what a family is?

So she feels you spending time with your extended family is neglecting the nuclear family etc?

That is just the difference in how you were raised.

I don't agree. She has her family over on Christmas day and over to her sisters on Stephens Day, yet she reacts in horror when her son dares suggest that Granny comes over for Christmas day? She is an extremely selfish spouse and OP you have been walked all over in this marriage. You need to bring granny over Christmas day this year. Show your son that you care about his feelings even if your wife doesn't.

Ursus Horribilis

There are probably plenty of people out there who aren't all that interested in their spouse's side of the family. But they'll be polite and go through the motions anyway. It's basic good manners.

AulWan

Can I ask how you wife got along with your family when you were dating or after you first married? In particular, between your mother and your wife. Did they ever get along? Were there any tensions between them after your son was born?

I am asking because I often read on this and other fora of women posting about how difficult they find their mothers-in-law to deal with, their and in-laws in general, especially after children are born. The universal advice they seem to be offered is "disengage". "You don't have to have a relationship with them". "Let him visit her with the kids, you stay at home". This sounds a lot like what has happened here? I'm not saying its right or wrong, or that your family are at fault, just that it sounds familiar.

About your mum coming for christmas, does she not remember having a discussion about it?