What if you left a beehive go wild?

Ubbquittious

As in didn't touch it for years. Would it eventually swarm down to nothing?

Danzy

Ubbquittious wrote: »

As in didn't touch it for years. Would it eventually swarm down to nothing?

Varroa mites would kill it.

It would swarm plenty as well but that would be natural.

That said it may be the hive that handles and survives varroa but chances are small.

Mellifera

We have a swarm in the eaves of our house. It has had no treatments/care as we cannot get in to it. It has been there for 14 years.

beveragelady

I have a hive that I've been neglecting for a few months for a number of reasons. I checked on them today and they seem to be doing ok. Interesting to see how they're doing next spring. The plan is to leave them where they are with minimal interference for the foreseeable future. I don't intend to take any honey from them. I suppose eventually varroa or something will finish them off but it would be nice if they survived.

_Brian

Building I worked in had three hives of bees in a small attic area.
Many attempts were made to remove them but the bees always survived. They would swarm down into our office each year and we would open the windows and go for a walk, an hour would clear the room.

Literally honey would run down the wall at my desk.

It is an historic building, records show our room was referred to as “the bee room” going back 200years.

Bees have survived a very long time and I hope will outlive humans as they have outlived countless other species.

Ubbquittious

_Brian wrote: »

Building I worked in had three hives of bees in a small attic area.
Many attempts were made to remove them but the bees always survived. They would swarm down into our office each year and we would open the windows and go for a walk, an hour would clear the room.

Literally honey would run down the wall at my desk.

It is an historic building, records show our room was referred to as “the bee room” going back 200years.

Bees have survived a very long time and I hope will outlive humans as they have outlived countless other species.

I wonder would there be anything special about those bees that they manage to shake off the varroa?

Mellifera

_Brian wrote: »

Building I worked in had three hives of bees in a small attic area.
Many attempts were made to remove them but the bees always survived. They would swarm down into our office each year and we would open the windows and go for a walk, an hour would clear the room.

Literally honey would run down the wall at my desk.

It is an historic building, records show our room was referred to as “the bee room” going back 200years.

Bees have survived a very long time and I hope will outlive humans as they have outlived countless other species.

You say 'worked' suggesting you've left it. Do you know if they are still there? I love how you gave it over to the bees while swarming having failed to oust them😀.

Apiarist

_Brian wrote: »

...Many attempts were made to remove them but the bees always survived....

They might have been different colonies. Even if a colony dies, an abandoned comb would attract new bees.

Ubbquittious wrote: »

As in didn't touch it for years. Would it eventually swarm down to nothing?

No, they would not swarm to nothing. Also the original colony may not survive winter, or die out due to a disease, but the old hive is a prime real estate for a swarm, so it won't be empty for long.

Thud

Your drones would also help spread varroa to other local colonies.
It's like a farmer deciding to leave his cows out all winter as it will toughen them up and breed tougher cows.
Your supposed to register your hive(s) with the dept of Argiculture, run your idea past them while your at it.

beveragelady

Thud wrote: »

Your drones would also help spread varroa to other local colonies.
It's like a farmer deciding to leave his cows out all winter as it will toughen them up and breed tougher cows.
Your supposed to register your hive(s) with the dept of Argiculture, run your idea past them while your at it.

My hives are all registered, there were no questions about my intentions. My experience with the dept suggests that unless I'm either giving or taking money they're not bothered.

Anyway, surely there are wild colonies all over the country? Is it irresponsible not to intervene with them?

Thud

Wild colonies are likely riddled with varroa and die off every few years. The location then acts as a very attractive bait hive for swarms so will not be left empty for too long.

The dept didn't ask but probably assumed you had enough cop on to treat. It's one of the reasons they are covering beekeeping now:
https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/farmingsectors/beekeepinghoney/beehealth/

Genghis Cant

Thud wrote: »

Your supposed to register your hive(s) with the dept of Argiculture, run your idea past them while your at it.

I didn't know that. Do you have a link to the registration process?
Thanks.

Ubbquittious

What is the purpose of registering? That someone from the revenue can drive up to your door and start insinuating that you've a hidden fortune somewhere from years of selling honey without giving poor auld Leo a penny? Seems to have gone the same way with hens and other animals. I am curious as to how come it's gone this way

The reason I started the thread at all is I still have a few hives in the shed unused from the days when my granddad used to keep bees but he packed it in shortly after he found out he had to keep putting poisonous bayer strips in the hives to keep the varroa at bay. He was big into the whole natural fairtrade organic thing and having to do this made him lose interest. Now I havn't the time for bee keeping but if I thought it would do some good for the surroundings to have a beehive sitting untouched and the bees left to their own devices I would consider it. Obviously don't want to create a breeding ground for varroa

Will we ever see the end of the varroa or a way to keep it at bay without big pharma's help?

beveragelady

Ubbquittious wrote: »

What is the purpose of registering?

I really don't know. We were told in a beekeeping association meeting that you needed to register in order for your insurance to be valid, but I think we were told more recently that that's not the case. I registered anyway for a completely separate and complicated reason involving a stupid land dispute.
Now I have a letter saying that I'm a primary producer of food. I suppose that means that a dept official can rock up to inspect the premises, even though I don't sell any honey at all. What are they going to do if my kitchen isn't hygienic enough? Shut me down?

This is the link to the registration form: https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/farmingsectors/beekeepinghoney/registrationofbeekeepersandpurchasersandpackersofhoney/

Thud

If someone starts selling contaminated honey they want to be able track and trace it, there are detailed guidelines on how you should label your honey to enable this also.
I've heard the revenue scarmongering also, very few people making much of a profit from beekeeping, doubt they'd waste time on it

Mellifera

Mellifera wrote: »

We have a swarm in the eaves of our house. It has had no treatments/care as we cannot get in to it. It has been there for 14 years.

It may have come and gone a couple of times in that period. A wild hive can die out during the winter and be reoccupied by a new swarm the following May. In the meanwhile bees will visit the 'dead' hive to rob out what remains or to scout it as a new home, so you would still see activity.

Unlike wasps, bees love to reoccupy an old hive.



It does seem that bees living in the wild are now more often in houses and other man made structures, instead of trees which are their natural home.

Ubbquittious

Ubbquittious wrote: »

What is the purpose of registering? That someone from the revenue can drive up to your door and start insinuating that you've a hidden fortune somewhere from years of selling honey without giving poor auld Leo a penny? Seems to have gone the same way with hens and other animals. I am curious as to how come it's gone this way

The reason I started the thread at all is I still have a few hives in the shed unused from the days when my granddad used to keep bees but he packed it in shortly after he found out he had to keep putting poisonous bayer strips in the hives to keep the varroa at bay. He was big into the whole natural fairtrade organic thing and having to do this made him lose interest. Now I havn't the time for bee keeping but if I thought it would do some good for the surroundings to have a beehive sitting untouched and the bees left to their own devices I would consider it. Obviously don't want to create a breeding ground for varroa

Will we ever see the end of the varroa or a way to keep it at bay without big pharma's help?

The reason for registration is that you are producing food. Anybody producing food, even if its only for themselves and friends has to behave responsibly in these days and that includes complying with the rules. My understanding is that Dept focuses its limited resources on large producers, but everybody is required to register, which is a simple process.



There are several organic treatments for varroa available that work well and thats what beekeepers use. Indeed I think that old treatment you mention has lost effectiveness now and is seldom used.

Flipperdipper

Deleted User wrote: »

The reason for registration is that you are producing food. Anybody producing food, even if its only for themselves and friends has to behave responsibly in these days and that includes complying with the rules....

I grow tomatoes,(45 plants this year), peppers, turnips and other veg for our own consumption. My wife produces some fantastic meals, some we eat immediately and others we put in the freezer for later use or if friends drop in unexpectedly. Does this mean that we are now to be considered "primary food producers" and have to register with the Dep of Agriculture ? Or, if I take honey from a colony of wild / feral bees am I still considered a "primary food producer" ? The whole thing is a load of dog's dangley bits. Bureaucracy gone mad.

bpmurray

A few points on this discussion:

As others have said it's likely the colony will die out over a couple of years. Many of the colonies that appear to have been established for many years are re-colonised again and again. One colony that was removed from a statue a couple of years ago, despite the assertion that it had been there for decades, had a queen with a white marking!

The DAFM registration is for food production. It is purely for food safety and that's exactly what they inspect. Those that suggest that it's something for the tax man have not understood the GDPR - it's a very serious criminal offence for DAFM to share your information with revenue, so it's just not going to happen.

In a couple of years time we'll have another registration requirement for bee health, where you'll have to register your apiaries. They're actually in the process of hiring bee inspectors now.